1100 réponses à ce sujet

[naughty99]

I was really impressed with the environments in Hard Reset.

Perhaps some of the Flying Wild Hog artists will go back and work for CD Projekt again.

[Tirigon]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

God, are you am I trolling or just stupid?

Judging by some of your replies I'm starting to wonder.

Well in your case I can be certain now.

android654 wrote...

You should learn to read for context.
It's rather clear that Jensen's defining "Shooters" as a game that
prioritizes action over the other mechanics. So having guns doesn't
automatically make a game a shooter. Deus Ex, Alpha Protocol, Fallout 3
and Fallout New Vegas are examples of games with guns that aren't
"shooters."

But that is an even worse definition than "it has guns".

Anyways: Whatever else, a shooter requires you to aim yourself by pointing a crosshair at the bad guy. Insofar, games like Mass Effect, Borderlands etc... are shooters, or at least strongly influenced by that.
Likewise, archery and ranged spells in a game like Skyrim could be counted as shooter, in a very broad sense (though I wouldnt call it a shooter because archery is only a tiny part of the game)

It is NOT a shooter if the targeting is done without your manual input, the way it is done for archers in DAO, for example.

[Mylia Stenetch]

android654 wrote...
This defintiely wont be as popular as a COD or a Gears of War game at first glance. It will however be very unique when placed next to it's competition. There's also the fact that CDPR has built up a reputation of being different for all the right reasons, so once there are big reveals it will definitely get some much needed noteriety.

Now that we know for a fact that it's going to be a Cyberpunk game with influences form CYBERPUNk 2020 and Gibson's novels, what are hoping is going to be in the final game once it's released?

It might not get the populatiry of COD or Gears right off the bat, but it could be a stronger base of people (like the Witcher 2 is doing). Where it could make a slow burn in popularity and bring us into a different viewpoint of gaming. Which I would not mind. As long as it does not overkill itself.

[AdamJenson]

Tirigon wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

God, are you am I trolling or just stupid?

Judging by some of your replies I'm starting to wonder.

Well in your case I can be certain now.

android654 wrote...

You should learn to read for context.
It's rather clear that Jensen's defining "Shooters" as a game that
prioritizes action over the other mechanics. So having guns doesn't
automatically make a game a shooter. Deus Ex, Alpha Protocol, Fallout 3
and Fallout New Vegas are examples of games with guns that aren't
"shooters."

But that is an even worse definition than "it has guns".

Anyways: Whatever else, a shooter requires you to aim yourself by pointing a crosshair at the bad guy. Insofar, games like Mass Effect, Borderlands etc... are shooters, or at least strongly influenced by that.
Likewise, archery and ranged spells in a game like Skyrim could be counted as shooter, in a very broad sense (though I wouldnt call it a shooter because archery is only a tiny part of the game)

It is NOT a shooter if the targeting is done without your manual input, the way it is done for archers in DAO, for example.

Ah.  So if aiming/using a weapon in a SEMI realistic manner is in the game, it is a shooter.  If it uses some totally fake system not at all related to how it is actually done (people normally "aim" sword swings, spear throws, arrow launches, bullet shots, etc) then it is "better" and not a shooter, though shooting is happening.

Gotcha.

[AdamJenson]

As far as unique universe/world for a game...besides Wolff's "Urth of the New Sun" future weirdness, just about anything based on Charles Stross' works would be great too. In particular I think I'd like to see the type of world of "The Jennifer Morgue", "The Atrocity Archives", and "The Fuller Memorandum" brought to life in a game. These are great fun books that are a mix of computer science, James Bond, and HP Lovecraft. THAT would be unique.

[Tirigon]

Sajji wrote...

Doesn't sound like the game for you, then.

Have fun on DA3 threads.

I dont intend to visit them, nor will I play the game.

AdamJenson wrote...


Fairly pointless if not 3rd
person, of course.  I assume (hope) 3rd person.  I actually prefered 1st
person prior to my first ME1 experience way back when.  Since then, I
have come to prefer 3rd person (ala ME, DEHR in spots).  Do NOT want 3rd
person at a distance god view (Diablo series).

Or they could just go the pro road and have a system like in TES games, where you can switch between first person and third person at will. That way, everyone would be happy.

But yea, I guess nowadays that is sadly out of question.

AdamJenson wrote...

Ah.  So if aiming/using a weapon in a
SEMI realistic manner is in the game, it is a shooter.  If it uses some
totally fake system not at all related to how it is actually done
(people normally "aim" sword swings, spear throws, arrow launches,
bullet shots, etc) then it is "better" and not a shooter, though
shooting is happening.

Gotcha.

I never said it is better.
But yes, if you aim yourself then it is a shooter, that's what shooters are all about.

Besides,
in a game like DAO, the characters aim there weapons as well, however
it is not done by you pointing a crosshair at something but reflected by
their archery / marksman / whatever skill.


Games like Borderlands fail because they want to have both - you aiming the crosshair AND your marksman skill determining aim.

[mupp3tz]

Borderlands didn't "fail." It just wasn't your type of game. That's all there is to it.  There are plenty of shooter games out there that have aim assist.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 31 mai 2012 - 05:45 .

[android654]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

Borderlands didn't "fail." It just wasn't your type of game. That's all there is to it.  There are plenty of shooter games out there that have aim assist.

There's a reason why Boderlands 2 is one of the most anticipated games of the year. If you don't want to apply yourself to learning the mechanics and skill system of a game, then you void all rights to b*tch about not excelling at it. Boderlands is fun and challenging, and if you devote your skills and items correctly you will succeed. You know, like in every other RPG that cares about it's skill system.

Modifié par android654, 31 mai 2012 - 05:53 .

[AdamJenson]

Tirigon wrote...

Sajji wrote...

Doesn't sound like the game for you, then.

Have fun on DA3 threads.

I dont intend to visit them, nor will I play the game.

AdamJenson wrote...


Fairly pointless if not 3rd
person, of course.  I assume (hope) 3rd person.  I actually prefered 1st
person prior to my first ME1 experience way back when.  Since then, I
have come to prefer 3rd person (ala ME, DEHR in spots).  Do NOT want 3rd
person at a distance god view (Diablo series).

Or they could just go the pro road and have a system like in TES games, where you can switch between first person and third person at will. That way, everyone would be happy.

But yea, I guess nowadays that is sadly out of question.

AdamJenson wrote...

Ah.  So if aiming/using a weapon in a
SEMI realistic manner is in the game, it is a shooter.  If it uses some
totally fake system not at all related to how it is actually done
(people normally "aim" sword swings, spear throws, arrow launches,
bullet shots, etc) then it is "better" and not a shooter, though
shooting is happening.

Gotcha.

I never said it is better.
But yes, if you aim yourself then it is a shooter, that's what shooters are all about.

Besides,
in a game like DAO, the characters aim there weapons as well, however
it is not done by you pointing a crosshair at something but reflected by
their archery / marksman / whatever skill.


Games like Borderlands fail because they want to have both - you aiming the crosshair AND your marksman skill determining aim.

The ability to go from 3rd to 1st person at will would be great for a LOT of games, if not most.  I'd love to have that option.

As for borderlands, I don't know, that mechanic COULD work (Borderlands...haven't played it).  Something like if your skill is low, the crosshairs wobble and move (like in RL) or if your skill is high, it remains fairly tightly locked on...you could even "help" the player along and do a LITTLE aimbot thing for those with higher skill to help lead  target, swing from target to target, etc.  It could work nicely at get many people over the hump of not handling clumsy controls well (mouse/keyboard is my favored system but not always elegant).

Modifié par AdamJenson, 31 mai 2012 - 05:53 .

[Tirigon]

android654 wrote...


There's a reason why Boderlands 2 is one of the most anticipated games of the year. If you don't want to apply yourself to learning the mechanics and skill system of a game, then you void all rights to b*tch about not excelling at it. Boderlands is fun and challenging, and if you devote your skills and items correctly you will succeed. You know, like in every other RPG that cares about it's skill system.

What makes you think I failed at the game? I didnt, I am far too bad to do so, because failing in Borderlands takes more skill than winning. The game is way too easy.

No, the problem is that it doesnt reward skill at shoooting but farming and leveling.

[android654]

Tirigon wrote...

android654 wrote...


There's a reason why Boderlands 2 is one of the most anticipated games of the year. If you don't want to apply yourself to learning the mechanics and skill system of a game, then you void all rights to b*tch about not excelling at it. Boderlands is fun and challenging, and if you devote your skills and items correctly you will succeed. You know, like in every other RPG that cares about it's skill system.

What makes you think I failed at the game? I didnt, I am far too bad to do so, because failing in Borderlands takes more skill than winning. The game is way too easy.

No, the problem is that it doesnt reward skill at shoooting but farming and leveling.

Because it's an RPG! It takes skill in order to perform.

[Mylia Stenetch]

Tirigon wrote...

android654 wrote...


There's a reason why Boderlands 2 is one of the most anticipated games of the year. If you don't want to apply yourself to learning the mechanics and skill system of a game, then you void all rights to b*tch about not excelling at it. Boderlands is fun and challenging, and if you devote your skills and items correctly you will succeed. You know, like in every other RPG that cares about it's skill system.

What makes you think I failed at the game? I didnt, I am far too bad to do so, because failing in Borderlands takes more skill than winning. The game is way too easy.

No, the problem is that it doesnt reward skill at shoooting but farming and leveling.

You do know what a RPG usually entails farming and leveling, and min/maxing skills right?

[Tirigon]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...


You do know what a RPG usually entails farming and leveling, and min/maxing skills right?

Yes, but then it doesnt require me to point a crosshair at things.

I like both leveling and pointing crosshairs at baddies. But not at the same time.


it's just like with food: I love chocolate and I love grilled sausages. But I dont dip my sausage in chocolate.

[mupp3tz]

... so don't buy the game because it's obviously not for you? That doesn't by any means categorize it as a failure. Such a narrow mind you have, there.

[android654]

Tirigon wrote...

Mylia Stenetch wrote...


You do know what a RPG usually entails farming and leveling, and min/maxing skills right?

Yes, but then it doesnt require me to point a crosshair at things.

I like both leveling and pointing crosshairs at baddies. But not at the same time.


it's just like with food: I love chocolate and I love grilled sausages. But I dont dip my sausage in chocolate.

Then play a different game to get your shooter kicks. It's an RPG. IF you want your character to do well you have to play it like an RPG. Why are you making an issue out of this?

Back to the game. Anyone have any Cyberpunk, Biopunk, or any other futuristic art they think would go well with the game's theme from what we know so far?

[spirosz]

[mupp3tz]

@android654

Finally got around to reading Snow Crash. Kind of related...

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 31 mai 2012 - 07:29 .

[Tirigon]

android654 wrote...

Then play a different game to get your shooter kicks. It's an RPG. IF you want your character to do well you have to play it like an RPG. Why are you making an issue out of this?

Morroian wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
This, and also because RPGs in modern times suck. Just look at Borderlands or Fallout3 with their awful gameplay.

Well if you approached Borderlands as an rpg I can see why you'd be disappointed. Its a shooter, and a good, even great shooter.

That's why. You people defend Borderlands but cant even decide whether it is an RPG with some shooter elements or a shooter with some RPG elements.

[mupp3tz]

... and a game that has elements from different genres is "astonishing" how? I'm sorry that some video games cannot be conveniently placed into neat, little categories. Does that mean that they are "bad" games? No. Does that mean that your argument is trite and superficially logical? Yes.  Are you really that surprised that multi-category games exist in the world?

There are plenty of people out there who enjoyed Borderlands. People who are fans of RPGs. People who are fans of shooters. People who are fans of both. People who didn't think they were into either. What in the f*** does it matter whether or not they can all agree on what type of game Borderlands is.. or which parts are the greatest or the worst aspects?  Reaching a consensus on how to classify does not equal good or bad.  What a great leap in reasoning.

I don't understand at all what your point is. Basically, all you did is QQ about how you didn't like it and badly argue how we should all agree with you on how bad the game is. Lulz. Okay.

What does this have to do with Cyberpunk? Nobody is in this thread to argue about genres and how games are classified and whether or not their placement makes you happy.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 31 mai 2012 - 08:28 .

[android654]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

@android654

Finally got around to reading Snow Crash. Kind of related...

Most of my literature in this area either came from Gibson or small time authors. I'll definitely be checking this one out.

spiros9110 wrote...

*Bladerunner snip*

I love bladerunner a lot I really do... However, people forget that Bladerunner isn't a pure anything. It's a blend of story genres much like Asimov's works. That doesn't take anything away from it, there are many Cyberpunk stories that are also Noir detective stories. With the exception of Pris and the occasional stripper, everyone in Bladerunner dressed and acted as if it were the 1940's. Bladerunner pretty much stands alone in this since every other film that covers the Cyberpunk theme updates everything, even Fashion. Judging from their concept art, CDPR is going in that direction. Which means we could possibly see somethings like this.

[PaulSX]

Tirigon wrote...

That's why. You people defend Borderlands but cant even decide whether it is an RPG with some shooter elements or a shooter with some RPG elements.

Borderlands is a shooter.  No one can play it like a rpg and Gearbox is a developer specialized in shooter games.

some people like to compare it to diablo, since it has similiar looting mechannics. But the thing is even diablo hardly can be categorized as role playing game.

[Morroian]

Tirigon wrote...

Games like Borderlands fail because they want to have both - you aiming the crosshair AND your marksman skill determining aim.

Nope Borderlands overcame this issue. 

Tirigon wrote...

That's why. You people defend Borderlands but cant even decide whether it is an RPG with some shooter elements or a shooter with some RPG elements.

No confusion here, its a shooter with some rpg elements. Gearbox have never advertised it as an rpg. 

Modifié par Morroian, 31 mai 2012 - 09:09 .

[mupp3tz]

android654 wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

@android654

Finally got around to reading Snow Crash. Kind of related...

Most of my literature in this area either came from Gibson or small time authors. I'll definitely be checking this one out.

There's also a pretty fun book called Ready Player One.  I'm not really an expert on deeming "cyberpunk" or not.. but it's a good read for gamers.  Definitely makes you think about VR and super MMOs of the future.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 31 mai 2012 - 10:14 .

[android654]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

android654 wrote...

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

@android654

Finally got around to reading Snow Crash. Kind of related...

Most of my literature in this area either came from Gibson or small time authors. I'll definitely be checking this one out.

There's also a pretty fun book called Ready Player One.  I'm not really an expert on deeming "cyberpunk" or not.. but it's a good read for gamers.  Definitely makes you think about VR and super MMOs of the future.

It's definitely Cyberpunk, what with the abject poverty and high level of technology. It seems like a decent summer read for those who like coming of age stories. The only thing that seems to be missing is a serious lack of conflict. That's the thing that always made cyberpunk stories so memorable, the fact that a person's life is so void of value, that death could come at any moment. That sense of deperation sticks with you even when you stop reading.

[Tirigon]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

... and a game that has elements from different genres is "astonishing" how?

Astonishing? No.

Bad? Yes.

Hybrids are an interesting concept, but so far there is not a single game that pulled it off well. Those that tried all failed miserably.