1100 réponses à ce sujet

[Seagloom]

Why does magic need to be limited to fantasy? XD Also, I wasn't referring to stuff like fireballs when thinking of magic. There's so much variation out there that could be based on real world mythology and ancient cultures. The occult is a vast well to drink from. Unfortunately games usually treat magic as the ability to throw lightning and crap.

Modifié par Seagloom, 29 mai 2012 - 09:34 .

[RedArmyShogun]

Hmm, what did you have in mind then if not traditional magic so to speak?

[android654]

Skelter192 wrote...

Seagloom wrote...
Also, magic > everything except advanced science and possibly firearms.

But there is so much fantasy!

And oh man go watch Blade Runner reguardless of the genre it's a fantastic film how could anyone not watch it?!

True. The film is like one giant experiment in symbolism. Also, if you look at the conflict of men creating new life in cyborgs, you can easily find links to many things mythological.

Even if the game is using one of my favorite subgenres in literature, CDPR has earned my loyalty from TW2 that I'll definitely give this a shot.

[Rockworm503]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Cyberpunk style? Booo. Oh well might keep an eye for it if a 360 release is likely.

Yeah how dare they use a setting that hasn't been done to death like fantasy *rolls eyes*

Still haven't played Witcher I'll get the 2nd even if the first one doesn't work on my machine.  All the praise it gets around here I just can't ignore that.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Hmm, what did you have in mind then if not traditional magic so to speak?

Force-choke?

[Nordicus]

Honestly, I'd prefer if they kept the pre-defined (mental/social) character traits, though physical customization options would be neat. In fact, you give us a male and female protagonist by making 2 characters with more-or-less different stories. If someone can do it right, it's CDProjekt guys.

I just love Geralt as a WRPG protagonist over most if not all blank slates, CDProjekt gives you just enough space to roleplay so consistently that my "player avatar immersion" isn't broken

Modifié par Nordicus, 29 mai 2012 - 09:57 .

[naughty99]

Nordicus wrote...

Honestly, I'd prefer if they kept the pre-defined (mental/social) character traits, though physical customization options would be neat. In fact, you give us a male and female protagonist by making 2 characters with more-or-less different stories. If someone can do it right, it's CDProjekt guys.

I just love Geralt as a WRPG protagonist over most if not all blank slates, CDProjekt gives you just enough space to roleplay so consistently that my "player avatar immersion" isn't broken

If this is their own IP, I really hope they allow much greater character customization and more of a sandbox approach compared with the Witcher series.

I understand Flying Wild Hog, which did a fantastic job with the cyberpunk environments in Hard Reset, was founded by a few former CD Projekt devs.

Modifié par naughty99, 29 mai 2012 - 10:05 .

[deuce985]

We need another great cyberpunk RPG like Deus Ex. Can't wait.

[Zaxares]

Hmm... I'll wait and see. I like and respect CDPR as a developer, but cyberpunk is not one of my preferred genres (with Deus Ex being a big exception). I would also prefer a blank slate protagonist; while I do like Adam Jensen and Geralt as characters, they're not MY characters. They're established heroes with their own personality and preferences; I just have some control in determining what path the story takes.

[xsdob]

android654 wrote...

Seagloom wrote...
I'm also getting tired of the whole dark and gritty angle, and cyberpunk has a tendency to fall into dystopian futureville.

That's because it's the definition of the genre.

That's why I prefer steampunk, you don't need to follow an arctypal troupe as part of the genre, just have advance tech be 1900's looking and there you go.

[xsdob]

Also, I may have to consider this one, let's hope they can get gunplay mechanics right and learn from mass effect 1, 2, and 3.

Improve combat AND make a good story and boom, you have the greatest game of all time.

[Seagloom]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Hmm, what did you have in mind then if not traditional magic so to speak?

Force-choke?

Yeah, let's just go with that. I thought about posting a detailed reply, but honestly there isn't much point. I doubt anyone wants to read a lengthy meandering post about my thoughts on magic as defined by most anthropologists. There's no way I can write a quickie post about it because of how varied it can get. More importantly, I think I'd risk breaking the site rules if I got carried away. And considering it's one of my pet interests, I probably would.

As much as I can enjoy playing the stereotypical nuking mage in games, I often lament how magic is always treated as another weapon to kill things with.

Suffice it to say I'm thinking of subtler applications of it grounded more in the practical and spiritual, and how they affect the way a people interact with their world. Apologies for the all around vagueness.

Modifié par Seagloom, 29 mai 2012 - 10:25 .

[kirvingtwo]

I love cyberpunk but I have a horrible feeling that it will have a forced male protagonist.(just preparing myself for inevitable disappointment here)
I want my female protagonist with occasionally malfunctioning, early implants, nano-tattoos and a bad attitude!

[android654]

xsdob wrote...

android654 wrote...

Seagloom wrote...
I'm also getting tired of the whole dark and gritty angle, and cyberpunk has a tendency to fall into dystopian futureville.

That's because it's the definition of the genre.

That's why I prefer steampunk, you don't need to follow an arctypal troupe as part of the genre, just have advance tech be 1900's looking and there you go.

That's not true. First, Steampunk is a derivative of Cyberpunk. Second, Steampunk also has a political and social foundation. It's usually used in alternative history and the mechanics usually tie into the conlfict of the story.

Have none of you wondered why PUNK is attached to so many genres? Biopunk, Cyberpunk, Steampunk, Nanopunk, Teslapunk, they all came from counter-culture in the 80's and was created to mask political and social commentary. Just like punk music once did.

So yes, if the genre has punk attached to it the setting will be bleak about 95% of the time because the story is usually trying to make a point about those in charge or life for the common person in a society of oppression.

I mean there's a reason this is what Cyberpunk looks like.


The only two examples I can come up with of Cyberpunk anything that isn't "dark" is Ghost In The Shell and Mirror's Edge. However, while the art direction isn't dreary, the overall theme and content is still dark.

[mupp3tz]

xsdob wrote...

That's why I prefer steampunk, you don't need to follow an arctypal troupe as part of the genre, just have advance tech be 1900's looking and there you go.

Who's to say it won't have steampunk elements?  I could totally support that, too.  At this point, I support any CDPR project.  They're at the top of my favorite developers list and I'm going to pick up whatever this new RPG ends up being.  The first image teaser is quite intruiging to say the least.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 29 mai 2012 - 11:02 .

[CDRSkyShepard]

If they go with the cyberpunk angle, ME will still be my (albeit broken) baby. I like cleaner sci-fi, the dark, gritty stuff just makes me want to eat pints of ice cream all the time. This is why I couldn't watch more than a couple of BSG episodes in a sitting.

Whatever happened to the "hope despite hopelessness" (what ME was before StarChild butchered it) and "positive vision of the future" (Star Trek) stuff in sci-fi? I miss that. I have enough dystopian crap shoved down my throat every day in real life.

[Seagloom]

android654 wrote...

The only two examples I can come up with of Cyberpunk anything that isn't "dark" is Ghost In The Shell and Mirror's Edge. However, while the art direction isn't dreary, the overall theme and content is still dark.

Guess this is why I'm not a big cyberpunk fan. I loved Ghost in the Shell when I first saw it in the 90s. At the same time, it was a pretty depressing story. I'm getting burned out on depressing stories. Lately it feels like every big RPG wants to spin this tale of how life is ultimately hopeless, and how struggling against that reality is an exercise in futility. Looks like that is what I can expect from this game if the genre exudes it.

Doesn't mean I'll give it a pass based on it being cyberpunk, but it does mean I'd approach it leerily.

Modifié par Seagloom, 29 mai 2012 - 11:12 .

[HoonDing]

They should've gone with Flash Gordon, Buck Rogers or Perry Rhodan, i.e. another stud like Geralt who gets all the girls. It would've saved them from creating their own setting as well. This looks horrible.

[fchopin]

Interesting, CDPR, sci-fi, must control self.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Seagloom wrote...

Guess this is why I'm not a big cyberpunk fan. I loved Ghost in the Shell when I first saw it in the 90s. At the same time, it was a pretty depressing story. I'm getting burned out on depressing stories. Lately it feels like every big RPG wants to spin this tale of how life is ultimately hopeless, and how struggling against that reality is an exercise in futility. Looks like that is what I can expect from this game if the genre exudes it.

Doesn't mean I'll give it a pass based on it being cyberpunk, but it does mean I'll approach it leerily.

This, absolutely all of this.

I thought ME was going to be different. But nope, it just decided to go along with that trope like almost all other mainstream sci-fi right now. (Another reason why the "artistic integrity" argument holds no water)

[android654]

Seagloom wrote...

android654 wrote...

The only two examples I can come up with of Cyberpunk anything that isn't "dark" is Ghost In The Shell and Mirror's Edge. However, while the art direction isn't dreary, the overall theme and content is still dark.

Guess this is why I'm not a big cyberpunk fan. I loved Ghost in the Shell when I first saw it in the 90s. At the same time, it was a pretty depressing story. I'm getting burned out on depressing stories. Lately it feels like every big RPG wants to spin this tale of how life is ultimately hopeless, and how struggling against that reality is an exercise in futility. Looks like that is what I can expect from this game if the genre exudes it.

Doesn't mean I'll give it a pass based on it being cyberpunk, but it does mean I'll approach it leerily.

Well think about it. The genre surfaced in the 80's. Japan was in a way worse economic standing along with advancements in technologies. It's also a point in history where the concept of a plutocracy as common place was becoming common knowledge. So you have huge differences in income between social classes, and society is on this upswing where things that were once the stuff of imagination are becoming more and more real. So it fits with the concept from Ghost in the Shell. While it's not a dirty and dark as Akira or The Matrix, you do see the slums as the common sector for human life in both of the movies.

Now that I think about it, there's also A Scanner Darkly. It takes place in a L.A. that's fairly similar to L.A. now. But the use of technology, government spying programs, drugs and general pointlessness to common life are all prevalent themes.

Basically the concept was originated to critique life on it's social and political merits. Just like the music genre from which it gained it's name, it was only popular when people cared about those issues. Yes it can be "depressing" and cause you to muse on these topics a bit too much, but just about every piece of literature and most music that man has considered to be essential to the contributions of men to their societies has always dealt with dark and depressing topics. Unfortunately the majority of life for most people is s*it for the most of the time, and ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

[termokanden]

But that's just it. That was my main gripe with the ending to the ME series. Fatalistic and depressing even though the game's universe was not that dark. It didn't fit the tone of the series at all.

I've been playing Bloodlines again tonight with my first Nosferatu character. It's definitely dark and gritty, and as a Nosferatu you'r twice damned. Nevertheless, I am never depressed playing the game. Everything is done with just the right amount of humor, and while the game constantly throws signs of impending doom at you, the ending is not at all bleak and depressing (except if you make very bad decisions). I think it makes good fun of the fatalism I have come to loathe in media. I am a big fan of the game, so forgive me for going on about it, but I think it shows you can do dark and gritty without players crying themselves to sleep or having to go through boatloads of Ben and Jerry's.

Modifié par termokanden, 29 mai 2012 - 11:27 .

[android654]

I love Bloodlines too, but it's not Cyberpunk and it's not about people on the bottom of the social ladder. Even as a Nosferatu, you're a vampire so you're automatically higher than most of the planet's population. So it's hard to feel bad about any of the vampires in the game when they run a shadow government that runs the world. That being said, it's a Gothic story, and as someone who used to run in that crowd I know that's it's actually very lively and isn't without it's humor. So yeah, it's dark, but only because it's goth. The majority of the subject matter itself was never intended to be dark.

[Seagloom]

@android654

That last sentence hits my main gripe. I see and experience my share of dreariness in life as it is. There are times when it can be torturous for me. That does not mean I stick my head in the sand and avoid darker stories whenever I can. It is just getting tiresome that most recent CRPGs I can think of are about life in crapholes, or characters trying to improve crapholes unsuccessfully.

I'm all for exploring difficult themes in stories. I only wish there were more stories that ended on a hopeful note, or reminded me that hey, not *everything* has to bite all the time.

Also, let's face it: while cyberpunk may have been intended as all these things you write of, I think some of these developers are not trying to share a message so much as shock their audience. They mistakenly believe that sets them apart from the crowd when it doesn't.

---

On a side note, agreed with termokanden on Bloodlines. It's true it isn't cyberpunk, but I don't think being a vampire is a step up in that universe as you imply, android. That said, Bloodlines doesn't do as great a job at conveying that as the tabletop setting it was based on. It's very clear from those materials that being a vampire mostly sucks (pun intended), and results in an existence of personal horror until the last vestiges of one's humanity are torn away by either madness or impulse.

Modifié par Seagloom, 29 mai 2012 - 11:48 .