android654 wrote...
The only thing that seems to be missing is a serious lack of conflict. That's the thing that always made cyberpunk stories so memorable, the fact that a person's life is so void of value, that death could come at any moment. That sense of deperation sticks with you even when you stop reading.
Seagloom wrote...
It will be interesting to see if this game pays off for them or not. Setting out to cater to a specific niche can either be a godsend if enough fans show up to buy your game, or a curse if most of your potential audience is too alienated or apathetic toward your product. That was why Planescape: Torment developed a cult following instead of becoming the runaway hits Baldur's Gate and KotOR did.
If this game does turn out as amazing as some folks expect it will, I hope it moves enough copies to justify sequels. Otherwise it may end up as another Bloodlines. Well loved by its fans, but otherwise doomed to relative obscurity.
Modifié par slimgrin, 01 juin 2012 - 12:06 .
Tirigon wrote...
android654 wrote...
The only thing that seems to be missing is a serious lack of conflict. That's the thing that always made cyberpunk stories so memorable, the fact that a person's life is so void of value, that death could come at any moment. That sense of deperation sticks with you even when you stop reading.
It's what makes all stories memorable.
Such a topic is not exclusive to cyberpunk, it is the same with most fantasy.... and, sadly, with most historical novels and nonfiction as well.
Tirigon wrote...
android654 wrote...
The only thing that seems to be missing is a serious lack of conflict. That's the thing that always made cyberpunk stories so memorable, the fact that a person's life is so void of value, that death could come at any moment. That sense of deperation sticks with you even when you stop reading.
It's what makes all stories memorable.
Such a topic is not exclusive to cyberpunk, it is the same with most fantasy.... and, sadly, with most historical novels and nonfiction as well.
Modifié par naughty99, 01 juin 2012 - 12:25 .
slimgrin wrote...
Seagloom wrote...
It will be interesting to see if this game pays off for them or not. Setting out to cater to a specific niche can either be a godsend if enough fans show up to buy your game, or a curse if most of your potential audience is too alienated or apathetic toward your product. That was why Planescape: Torment developed a cult following instead of becoming the runaway hits Baldur's Gate and KotOR did.
If this game does turn out as amazing as some folks expect it will, I hope it moves enough copies to justify sequels. Otherwise it may end up as another Bloodlines. Well loved by its fans, but otherwise doomed to relative obscurity.
Bring doomed to obsurity is always a risk, but I watched the conference and Iwinki seemed to refer to this universe as a setting for more than one game, which would make sense. I see this move similar to Bioware utilizing D&D for Baldur's Gate. As for cateruing to a niche, well, thats what the Withcer games are. They've never attempted mainstream games and it doens't sound like they're gonna start.
My only worry is how to make combat, particlualrly gun combat stand out in this day and age. And I'm curious about the camera view as well though I'm guessing it will be third person.
Tirigon wrote...
Hybrids are an interesting concept, but so far there is not a single game that pulled it off well. Those that tried all failed miserably.
Modifié par android654, 01 juin 2012 - 12:55 .
android654 wrote...
slimgrin wrote...
Seagloom wrote...
It will be interesting to see if this game pays off for them or not. Setting out to cater to a specific niche can either be a godsend if enough fans show up to buy your game, or a curse if most of your potential audience is too alienated or apathetic toward your product. That was why Planescape: Torment developed a cult following instead of becoming the runaway hits Baldur's Gate and KotOR did.
If this game does turn out as amazing as some folks expect it will, I hope it moves enough copies to justify sequels. Otherwise it may end up as another Bloodlines. Well loved by its fans, but otherwise doomed to relative obscurity.
Bring doomed to obsurity is always a risk, but I watched the conference and Iwinki seemed to refer to this universe as a setting for more than one game, which would make sense. I see this move similar to Bioware utilizing D&D for Baldur's Gate. As for cateruing to a niche, well, thats what the Withcer games are. They've never attempted mainstream games and it doens't sound like they're gonna start.
My only worry is how to make combat, particlualrly gun combat stand out in this day and age. And I'm curious about the camera view as well though I'm guessing it will be third person.
To be fair, if we remove monster fights and alchemy from The Witcher 2, how is the combat any different form any other modern sword and shield game? You can literally make it through TW2 by hacking and slashing your way from enemy to enemy. I honestly don't care if they copy n paste from another developer on how to best implement the mechanics for it. Since it's an RPG and their first original ip, I expect them to give the rest the rest even more care than they did with TW2.
Modifié par slimgrin, 01 juin 2012 - 12:58 .
slimgrin wrote...
Ignore alchemy and try hacking and slashing your way through the game on hard. If you really have balls try that in Arena. And try it without rolling all over the place. The fact is just about any combat system can be cheesed.
And I care a great deal about the way they approach combat in this game - copy and pasting is what Bioware does, not CDPR.
Modifié par slimgrin, 01 juin 2012 - 01:09 .
android654 wrote...
naughty99 wrote...
Tirigon wrote...
android654 wrote...
The only thing that seems to be missing is a serious lack of conflict. That's the thing that always made cyberpunk stories so memorable, the fact that a person's life is so void of value, that death could come at any moment. That sense of deperation sticks with you even when you stop reading.
It's what makes all stories memorable.
Such a topic is not exclusive to cyberpunk, it is the same with most fantasy.... and, sadly, with most historical novels and nonfiction as well.
Without conflict, there is no story at all, regardless of the genre or medium.
Then the question becomes, to what degree of conflict can we fit in a Cyberpunk story?
Modifié par naughty99, 01 juin 2012 - 01:59 .
Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 01 juin 2012 - 01:31 .
M U P P 3 T Z wrote...
Kind of building on what android said... Yes, I find that the consistent message amongst things that fall in the cyberpunk genre is a sort of warning to us about how things could possibly end up in the future. It's a bleak painting of where we could be heading.
naughty99 wrote...
Hopefully as much as possible.
Sounds like you are referring to social struggles related to the dystopian setting of most cyberpunk stories, which I'd agree are particularly essential to creating a cyberpunk game world.
There was plenty of class warfare and social struggle in Cyberpunk 2020 - here is a link to the timeline of events in the game world:
slimgrin wrote...
This might seem nerdy, but all day today I'm juggling this problem around in my head - how to make the game original when they have so many timeworn tropes right off the bat. For the story, I'm not worried as long as it's the same writers who did TW2. But making gun/gadget combat fresh is a whole other problem, one largely solved by the Deus Ex series...many years ago. Good luck doing it better than those games.
Modifié par slimgrin, 01 juin 2012 - 01:55 .
Sajji wrote...
M U P P 3 T Z wrote...
Kind of building on what android said... Yes, I find that the consistent message amongst things that fall in the cyberpunk genre is a sort of warning to us about how things could possibly end up in the future. It's a bleak painting of where we could be heading.
There is, however, a certainty of where we are headed, unless we escape Earth.
Complete and utter extinction. Absolute destruction.
When the Sun dies a long, long time from now, nothing will be left. At all.
Depressing but reality.
Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 01 juin 2012 - 01:35 .
naughty99 wrote...
Without conflict, there is no story at all, regardless of the genre or medium.
M U P P 3 T Z wrote...
I don't know as to how much CDPR will be able to actually "revolutionize" the gameplay combat with a shooter type game... I mean, honestly, it's only once in awhile that we get something truly innovative.
However, the main selling point that's got me hooked is their proven ability to craft an excellent and intriguing story with complex characters. That is what I look forward to the most. I highly doubt CDPR would go to the extent of f***ing up their gunplay.. at worst, it would just be mediocre.
In regards to cyberpunk: (correct me if I'm wrong) it's always set in the future. Alternate universe types of stories typically err on steampunk or whatever other "--"punk. I suspect the "punk" part of the term stems from the cultural association we tend to pair with it: chaos, rebellion, anticonformity, repression, alternative lifestyle/society, unhappiness, aggression, etc. ... thus common themes in media under the genre.
android654 wrote...
In all of these sub-genres of Punk fiction, the main concern is always the social condition of people, then it's the political problems then the technological progression. Without those three elements it's not Cyberpunk, it;s not punk fiction at all. That's what sets it apart from other kinds of fiction.
slimgrin wrote...
We'll kill ourselves long before the sun does, which is exactly why CyberPunk is still relevant. Corporate greed and it's far reaching effects. Corporations eat society and the very environment we live in from the inside out.
I don't even need to cite religion. We've lived with destructive religious ideas for centuries. But corporate, faceless greed will run us into the ground.
Tirigon wrote...
android654 wrote...
In all of these sub-genres of Punk fiction, the main concern is always the social condition of people, then it's the political problems then the technological progression. Without those three elements it's not Cyberpunk, it;s not punk fiction at all. That's what sets it apart from other kinds of fiction.
Ironically, it is the same with stories set in the middle ages.
In fact, both settings are pretty much the same if you get right down to it:
Life sucks for most, a few powerful guys do whatever they want and rule the world, some guy opposes them.
The difference is only, in a medieval setting most are the peasants, the few are kings and nobility and the opposition is a Robin Hood kind of guy, whereas in Cyberpunk most are the impoverished masses, the few are corporations and the opposition is some cool badassmotherf*cking hacker dude with balls of steel and sunglasses, even in the dark.
Cyberpunk even has its own magic swords, they just call it "new prototype technology".
Tirigon wrote...
naughty99 wrote...
Without conflict, there is no story at all, regardless of the genre or medium.
Twilight disagrees.
slimgrin wrote...
We'll kill ourselves long before the sun does, which is exactly why CyberPunk is still relevant. Corporate greed and it's far reaching effects. Corporations eat society and the very environment we live in from the inside out.
I don't even need to cite religion. We've lived with destructive religious ideas for centuries. But corporate, faceless greed will run us into the ground.
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