1100 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

Seagloom: The Warden isn't even myself. He's a plot tool who moves along paths other set him out on. Always cure Eamon and side against Loghain at the Landsmeet for instance.

That's the worst part. He is an avatar, as in a proxy between you and the game, but you can't fully control him either. I vastly prefer a protagonist who is own character and does things because he or she have certain things thay care about.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 30 mai 2012 - 11:48 .

[Morroian]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Thats because they are nothing.
How can you possibly connect with a voiceless mute who doesn't have a personality whatsoever? I understand the whole RP mentality needed to imagine what they would say and how but we're comparing actual written characters with actual characters with a voiceless proxy whose only purpose is to act on your behalf. Its like feeling a connection for my mouse and keyboard.

I understand that and because of that an indifferent reaction is understandable rather than hatred.

[Seagloom]

@Costin_Razvan

Yeah, that's why I marked him/her as being toward the middle of the spectrum. Despite customization options, I never strongly felt the Warden was truly my character. Let's say Geralt is on the extreme left and the Dovahkiin the extreme right. The Warden is slightly right of the center. I put Thorton somewhat left of it.

I think most characters fall in that area. The closest to truly blank slate I would consider dull more as a result of their environment than their blank state status. I think Arcanum is an example of mostly blank slate done right; whereas Morrowind shows how it can be done poorly.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 mai 2012 - 11:59 .

[CrazyRah]

Well this has peaked my interest

[Milan92]

The fact that its CD Projekt already makes it good.

[RedArmyShogun]

^ Never say as something is made by someone its good. As often that can float to the top and sooner or later you find yourself buying crap and saying its good.

I do wonder what they have in mind however, and if this will showcase at E3.

[milena87]

I'm always interested in a sci-fi RPG and I'm curious to see what CD Project will create

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Seagloom: The Warden isn't even myself. He's a plot tool who moves along paths other set him out on. Always cure Eamon and side against Loghain at the Landsmeet for instance.

That's the worst part. He is an avatar, as in a proxy between you and the game, but you can't fully control him either. I vastly prefer a protagonist who is own character and does things because he or she have certain things thay care about.

That depends on how you roleplay though; an alliance with Loghain is never possible because HE doesnt want, therefore it is possible to roleplay a character who would wish to ally but must fight against him anyways.

In my opinion, DAO did a good job at making it so that, while certain actions are forced upon you, the motivations are never.

Seagloom wrote...



@Costin_Razvan



Yeah, that's why I
marked him/her as being toward the middle of the spectrum. Despite
customization options, I never strongly felt the Warden was truly my
character. Let's say Geralt is on the extreme left and the Dovahkiin the
extreme right. The Warden is slightly right of the center. I put
Thorton somewhat left of it.



I think most characters fall in that
area. The closest to truly blank slate I would consider dull more as a
result of their environment than their blank state status. I think
Arcanum is an example of mostly blank slate done right; whereas
Morrowind shows how it can be done poorly.

I wouldnt even call Dovahkiin or the player character in Morrowind a true blank slate; no matter what you do, you ARE the Dragonborn / the Nerevarine, foreseen saviour of the universe. You actually dont have any choices in either game; the only choice is either play the linear story or not play it, just like in DAO.

Granted, gameplaywise there is a major difference insofar as you can easily play Elder Scrolls games for days without ever doing the main quest and STILL have tons of fun, but storywise you ARE a predefined character.

[Seagloom]

Oh, I don't disagree with that. I only cited those characters as examples of the farthest an opposite extreme can get to help establish a baseline. There is no 100% blank slate in any scripted video game RPG. The only place I've seen that is role-playing online in NWN or outside video games altogether.

[android654]

Fallout New Vegas' courier is pretty blank. Outside of being someone delivering something valuable, you have no history or motivations determined for you.

[Seagloom]

Just the fact you're someone delivering something valuable is enough to not consider him or her a blank slate, however. It's a tiny thing, but it still counts. Also, there are only so many scripted ways the Courier can interact with the story.

A total blank slate is a character that has no history, motivation, or goals beyond what you give them. That really isn't possible in a video game.

That said, I didn't bring this up in the post Tirigon quoted because it's functionally pointless. No one is thinking pure blank slate when referring to an CRPG protagonist. They are thinking of characters like the Courier that are close enough...

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 mai 2012 - 02:14 .

[android654]

Well that's a very literal definition you're using there. I think the Courier is about as close as we can get with the limited technology in games. Perhaps at one point the technology will be available for players to "write" their character's personality and history and have it reflect in the game itself. Either way, it's always a good idea to have a character creator in an RPG.

[mupp3tz]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Thats because they are nothing.
How can you possibly connect with a voiceless mute who doesn't have a personality whatsoever? I understand the whole RP mentality needed to imagine what they would say and how but we're comparing actual written characters with actual characters with a voiceless proxy whose only purpose is to act on your behalf. Its like feeling a connection for my mouse and keyboard.

This.  I had an absolutely great time with Origins, but I didn't really connect with The Warden.  As Costin said, he basically just acts as an avatar of sorts.  When I think back on my adventure with Origins, I don't think of the Warden.  I think of the other characters who made the world great.  The Warden was just a vehicle for me to take part in the game.  As opposed to when I think of the Witcher, I have greater respect for Geralt as I have a good idea of who he is in my head.  I connect with him in the sense that I don't share his views, personality, etc. personally... but there are bits and pieces in there that I can identify with.  I know how he got to where he is and there are common themes in his past that we have all been through and can relate with.  In a sense, I have better understanding of Geralt as a protagonist over blank slate characters that I selected.

Perhaps it's just the way I play, but when I make choices with Geralt.. they are somehow bigger.  Because I know how it relates to his past (and the potential future) and also how difficult the decision may be based on what he's been through and his character, and how it affects those he cares for or despises.  When it's a blank slate, I feel like I'm just blindly choosing A vs. B based on what I feel like at the moment.  I can 180 on any decision later on in the game, and it won't feel as big as a betrayal or departure from values. 

AAAAND... a little over 1 hour left before the stream! :]

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 30 mai 2012 - 02:51 .

[Sajji]

I wonder if when they announce this game they'll have a page with this on it:

Pre-order ".........." now and receive the Witcher's flamethrower!!! This legendary device is the ULTIMATE monster killer and king assassination device!!! Also available for 6.99!!!! Order now, before you miss out!!!

[Seagloom]

android654 wrote...

Well that's a very literal definition you're using there.

I prefer literal definitions for the most part. They feel closer to objective than subjective. In any case, I didn't exactly disagree with your last post. In terms of video games, I do consider ES and Fallout protagonists as blank a slate as blank slates get.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 mai 2012 - 03:01 .

[RedArmyShogun]

Reguardless of my views on CDPR being nothing special as of yet, the marketing they use they don't do that, heck most if not all the DLC o nthe Witcher 2 is free, I don't see them doing a 180 now they are starting to get out into the gaming community in the big time.

[Nordicus]

Sajji wrote...

Pre-order ".........." now and receive the Witcher's flamethrower!!! This legendary device is the ULTIMATE monster killer and king assassination device!!! Also available for 6.99!!!! Order now, before you miss out!!!

By pre-ordering the Deluxe Edition, you get to meet and romance cyberpunk Yennefer!

[Sajji]

Ahhh...and to know none of that nonsense is going to take place! Curse the fact I gotta start my shift a half hour before the reveal

[android654]

Seagloom wrote...

android654 wrote...

Well that's a very literal definition you're using there.

I prefer literal definitions for the most part. They feel closer to objective than subjective. In any case, I didn't exactly disagree with your last post. In terms of video games, I do consider ES and Fallout protagonists as blank a slate as blank slates get.

Fair enough, makes it clearer for everyone to understand.

[mupp3tz]

Seagloom wrote...

In terms of video games, I do consider ES and Fallout protagonists as blank a slate as blank slates get.

Agreed.  In general, characters who are not given any personality are ones that I deem blank slates.  The player is able to choose temperment, views, and values.  These characters are very customizable, don't have voices, are never referred to by name, and are plopped into some sort of destiny they have to fulfill. 

Yes, they aren't really blank slates since you are expected to go with the destiny chosen for your character in the story... but, honestly.. it's unfeasible to do a full blank slate as there would not be any drive or motivation for the protagonist.  It would be akin to MMOs where you just wander around and don't have any purpose. 

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 30 mai 2012 - 03:19 .

[Tirigon]

M U P P 3 T Z wrote...

This.  I had an absolutely great time with Origins, but I didn't really connect with The Warden.  As Costin said, he basically just acts as an avatar of sorts.  When I think back on my adventure with Origins, I don't think of the Warden.  I think of the other characters who made the world great.  The Warden was just a vehicle for me to take part in the game.  As opposed to when I think of the Witcher, I have greater respect for Geralt as I have a good idea of who he is in my head.  I connect with him in the sense that I don't share his views, personality, etc. personally... but there are bits and pieces in there that I can identify with.  I know how he got to where he is and there are common themes in his past that we have all been through and can relate with.  In a sense, I have better understanding of Geralt as a protagonist over blank slate characters that I selected.

Perhaps it's just the way I play, but when I make choices with Geralt.. they are somehow bigger.  Because I know how it relates to his past (and the potential future) and also how difficult the decision may be based on what he's been through and his character, and how it affects those he cares for or despises.  When it's a blank slate, I feel like I'm just blindly choosing A vs. B based on what I feel like at the moment.  I can 180 on any decision later on in the game, and it won't feel as big as a betrayal or departure from values. 

AAAAND... a little over 1 hour left before the stream! :]

Well it is the opposite for me.

With the Warden, I can do what I think best, I can immerse myself in the game world and feel like I am a part of it.

With Geralt, I can not. I DO care for the character, because Geralt is just a cool guy, but I dont really feel connected to what he does. I also play differently. With a more or less open character, I feel like I actually have a choice in things.

With Geralt, I did not. In TW1, for example, the only sensible way to play was leaving the child with Triss, helping the Scoia'Tael, letting all the sentient monsters live where possible etc.
Doing the opposite, helping the Order etc... felt wrong to me. It is not something Geralt would do, and thus I cant do it without feeling wrong.


For a true RPG, an open character is the only way to go, imo. Predefined characters are cool, to be sure, but they have no place in RPGs and should be left to novels, movies and linear action games, imo.

Modifié par Tirigon, 30 mai 2012 - 03:34 .

[AdamJenson]

android654 wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Cyberpunk style? Booo. Oh well might keep an eye for it if a 360 release is likely.

Way better than sword, shields and magic.

This.  Oh GAWD this! 

I cannot STAND medieval nonsense with all the leather, chainmail, plate armor, the "thou arts" and "m'lady", incantations, swords, staffs...done to death, back to life, and then back to death AGAIN.  ALL of it mere repetitious copies of Lord of the Rings and Sword of Shannara.  Ugh.

[Gotholhorakh]

Yay! About time there was a decent new sci-fi adventure or RPG

[android654]

AdamJenson wrote...

android654 wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Cyberpunk style? Booo. Oh well might keep an eye for it if a 360 release is likely.

Way better than sword, shields and magic.

This.  Oh GAWD this! 

I cannot STAND medieval nonsense with all the leather, chainmail, plate armor, the "thou arts" and "m'lady", incantations, swords, staffs...done to death, back to life, and then back to death AGAIN.  ALL of it mere repetitious copies of Lord of the Rings and Sword of Shannara.  Ugh.

Finally someone to agree with!

Less of this


More of this

[mupp3tz]

Tirigon wrote...
With Geralt, I did not. In TW1, for example, the only sensible way to play was leaving the child with Triss, helping the Scoia'Tael, letting all the sentient monsters live where possible etc.
Doing the opposite, helping the Order etc... felt wrong to me. It is not something Geralt would do, and thus I cant do it without feeling wrong.

For a true RPG, an open character is the only way to go, imo. Predefined characters are cool, to be sure, but they have no place in RPGs and should be left to novels, movies and linear action games, imo.

Not necessarily.  One of the key themes in the Witcherverse is the struggle between the old way (monsters as evil - humans above all) and the new way (actions as evil - case by case view).  So, in that sense, your Geralt could still roleplay well as being against monsters -- what Witchers were meant to do traditionally.  It is very possibly something that Geralt could do.  The ability to choose between old and new is essentially roleplaying. 

As to the point about true RPGs, I don't think that set characters have to be pigeonholed into those categories.  Roleplaying means different things to different people.  What it boils down to is the desire to experience being somebody else.  Whether or not that is a blank slate or a pre-determined character is moot and is a point of personal preference.  For some people, the blank slate protagonist is basically just them being placed in a different setting and circumstances.  That may or may not be enough for immersion.  Others prefer taking on a wholly new role as someone with a different past.  Both of these scenarios merit the title of being RPGs.

Modifié par M U P P 3 T Z, 30 mai 2012 - 03:47 .