1100 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajji]

AdamJenson wrote...

android654 wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Cyberpunk style? Booo. Oh well might keep an eye for it if a 360 release is likely.

Way better than sword, shields and magic.

This.  Oh GAWD this! 

I cannot STAND medieval nonsense with all the leather, chainmail, plate armor, the "thou arts" and "m'lady", incantations, swords, staffs...done to death, back to life, and then back to death AGAIN.  ALL of it mere repetitious copies of Lord of the Rings and Sword of Shannara.  Ugh.

Glad you found the thread, and welcome to the conversation. If you haven't picked it out yet, and (guessing ) you like Deus Ex, notice in the teaser pic that one of the arms appears to be augmented

[AdamJenson]

Sajji wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

android654 wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Cyberpunk style? Booo. Oh well might keep an eye for it if a 360 release is likely.

Way better than sword, shields and magic.

This.  Oh GAWD this! 

I cannot STAND medieval nonsense with all the leather, chainmail, plate armor, the "thou arts" and "m'lady", incantations, swords, staffs...done to death, back to life, and then back to death AGAIN.  ALL of it mere repetitious copies of Lord of the Rings and Sword of Shannara.  Ugh.

Glad you found the thread, and welcome to the conversation. If you haven't picked it out yet, and (guessing ) you like Deus Ex, notice in the teaser pic that one of the arms appears to be augmented

I had to scan WAY down the forum page to depths I've never plumbed before to find this little ledge.  The space in between is FILLED with...sword and sorcery crap discussion.  Hard to stomach passing through such a morass

And yes, LOVE DE:HR (the story and atmosphere...not the boss fights) and the original DE (I am a heretic to some...I'd like a modern remake of the original DE up to current tech spec).  I'd like MORE such sci-fi RPG.  Maybe something based upon almost anything by Charles Stross, maybe even Neal Stephenson.

Modifié par AdamJenson, 30 mai 2012 - 03:59 .

[Tirigon]

AdamJenson wrote...

android654 wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Cyberpunk style? Booo. Oh well might keep an eye for it if a 360 release is likely.

Way better than sword, shields and magic.

This.  Oh GAWD this! 

I cannot STAND medieval nonsense with all the leather, chainmail, plate armor, the "thou arts" and "m'lady", incantations, swords, staffs...done to death, back to life, and then back to death AGAIN.  ALL of it mere repetitious copies of Lord of the Rings and Sword of Shannara.  Ugh.

What's with all the hate for medieval settings?

Medieval settings are superior for one reason alone, even if you like nothing else: NO. ****ING. GUNS.

In current time or future, you can only have shooters (or laser swords but that is completely r*tarded).

[Seagloom]

Geeze, that image you used to represent fantasy sucked, android. If you're going to do a comparison then find something *good*. Frank Frazetta's Death Dealer works, for example. Not clowns at a ren faire. XD

[Druss99]

Edit: Nevermind, found it.

Modifié par Druss99, 30 mai 2012 - 04:04 .

[mupp3tz]

Conference: HERE.

1 hour to go.

[Seeker Sparrow]

Druss99 wrote...

Anyone got a link to the conference video or is it just not up yet on their website?

I'm waiting for their website to update, though I've heard it'll start at 6:00pm (UK) because of DST. Who knows.

[Druss99]

Seeker Sparrow wrote...

Druss99 wrote...

Anyone got a link to the conference video or is it just not up yet on their website?

I'm waiting for their website to update, though I've heard it'll start at 6:00pm (UK) because of DST. Who knows.

Aye, that's fooled me a bit too. I didn't even realise DST messed everything up like that. I closed down Football Manager for nothing...grumble...bloody polish, coming over here with their great games...opening bakeries and confusing me with the concept of time...

[android654]

Seagloom wrote...

Geeze, that image you used to represent fantasy sucked, android. If you're going to do a comparison then find something *good*. Frank Frazetta's Death Dealer works, for example. Not clowns at a ren faire. XD

It's not like I did it on purpose...:innocent:

At any rate, the use of antiquated settings doesn't really bolster the quality of a piece of fiction. Especially since our knowledge of history basically tells us that conditions and attitudes of people in that era almost never reflect the majority of fiction we've created to represent that time period. However when using Cyberpunk we follow current trends and knowledge of how the world works to interpret how we'll evolve socially. If you take a look around, it's clear we're headed that way.

[AdamJenson]

Seagloom wrote...

Geeze, that image you used to represent fantasy sucked, android. If you're going to do a comparison then find something *good*. Frank Frazetta's Death Dealer works, for example. Not clowns at a ren faire. XD

It's a realistic depiction.  The stuff of games is all Conan the Barbarian with all the guys these steroid monsters, all the women these tall, statuesque models (unaccountably with the same physical strength as the steroid monster guy), wizards in evening dresses/bathrobes and a glowing globe on a staff (long grey beard, pointy hat).  Then there is the "rogue" (always a rogue) who wears scruffy leathers, has a bow-and-arrow, a bunch of dwarfs sporting MONSTROUS battleaxes, elfs with the pointy ears and bows-and-arrows.  The Bad Guys™ all wear black armor, have creepy style helmets, always have monsters as allies, very likely all with red glowing eyes...

How are bows-and-arrows and unaccountably huge broadswords, magic swords, HUGE battleaxes, fireball magic weapons different from guns?  They do precisely the same thing but in silly fashion.  

Nothin's better than a silenced sniper rifle for distance and a silenced pistol for close-in.  Nothin. No magic armor, no Mithril Mail.  And can you IMAGINE the BO those leather and sword toters would have (man OR woman)?  Yech!   At least in modern or future depicting games, you can be virtually certain that the men and women, whether good guy or bad, WEAR DEODORANT AND TAKE SHOWERS.

Modifié par AdamJenson, 30 mai 2012 - 04:24 .

[android654]

Tirigon wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

android654 wrote...

Confess-A-Bear wrote...

Cyberpunk style? Booo. Oh well might keep an eye for it if a 360 release is likely.

Way better than sword, shields and magic.

This.  Oh GAWD this! 

I cannot STAND medieval nonsense with all the leather, chainmail, plate armor, the "thou arts" and "m'lady", incantations, swords, staffs...done to death, back to life, and then back to death AGAIN.  ALL of it mere repetitious copies of Lord of the Rings and Sword of Shannara.  Ugh.

What's with all the hate for medieval settings?

Medieval settings are superior for one reason alone, even if you like nothing else: NO. ****ING. GUNS.

In current time or future, you can only have shooters (or laser swords but that is completely r*tarded).

Becuase they're boring and done to death. Every developer has several games where the player is a knight or a rogue in some unnamed English country fighting kings and monsters for Queen and Country. It's saturated to the point where the genre is no longer interesting. Cyberpunk has had only 2 games for this entire generation of consoles and one of them is extremely light on the Cyberpunk elements. Before Deus Ex: Human Revolution the only Cyberpunk game to come out before it was Deus Ex: Invisible War. So the queens and withces can sit a few out while we get some awesome asskicking cyborgs and renegade A.I.s.
 
Also, guns are so superior to swords or magic. If you've played Max Payne, Red Dead Redemption, Stranglehold, Borderlands, or Hitman, then you would know you can make art out of shooting people.

[AdamJenson]

android654 wrote...

Seagloom wrote...

Geeze, that image you used to represent fantasy sucked, android. If you're going to do a comparison then find something *good*. Frank Frazetta's Death Dealer works, for example. Not clowns at a ren faire. XD

It's not like I did it on purpose...:innocent:

At any rate, the use of antiquated settings doesn't really bolster the quality of a piece of fiction. Especially since our knowledge of history basically tells us that conditions and attitudes of people in that era almost never reflect the majority of fiction we've created to represent that time period. However when using Cyberpunk we follow current trends and knowledge of how the world works to interpret how we'll evolve socially. If you take a look around, it's clear we're headed that way.

To an extent I agree - though more in the direction as depicted in Deus Ex.  I doubt ACTUAL development along those lines will go all mohawky .

[Seagloom]

@AdamJenson

That is such a broad generalization of the fantasy genre I will not even dignify it with a proper rebuttal.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 mai 2012 - 04:23 .

[AdamJenson]

Yeah, I'm 100% with android654. Fantasy games are a dime a dozen (actually more like two dozen). They are numerous beyond counting, repetitious, variations on a VERY narrow theme. You can fling a penny in a game store (such that still exist) or a virtual penny on an online game store without hitting, literally, a pentillion gazillion sword-and-sorcery-dungeons-and-dragons games. How can you tell them apart? At this stage, all any company need do is cut and paste characters and plots from the pentillion gazillion sword and magic games to create a, viola!, "new" fantasy game!

[eroeru]

I for one am tired of fantasy, all cyber-punk and steampunk. Anything with "punk" in it sounds awful. "Urban fantasy" on the other hand...

[Seagloom]

Yes, and games with grizzled soldiers, assassins, law enforcement, thugs and the like blowing people away with firearms are dreadfully uncommon. Why, there are hardly any games to fill that niche. And not one of those titles is remotely popular or part of a long running franchise. :innocent:

Honestly, if the argument here is realistic depictions of people--games outside the fantasy genre are just as problematic in that regard. If the argument is ubiquity, I think guns and tech are way more common in games than swords and magic.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 mai 2012 - 04:43 .

[Aeowyn]

The same can be said about shooter games...

[Tirigon]

android654 wrote...

Also, guns are so superior to swords or magic. If you've played Max Payne, Red Dead Redemption, Stranglehold, Borderlands, or Hitman, then you would know you can make art out of shooting people.

No they are not.

I admit I havent played most of the games you mentioned but I HAVE played Borderlands and it was the worst piece of sh!t bastard of shooter and RPG I ever saw..... I wouldnt even have played it at all if not for my brother bothering me to play Co-op, which was about the only good thing I can say about it.

Anyways, shooters and RPGs just dont work together. Shooters require you to be able to 1-shot kill everything with a headshot, in RPGs damage depends on skills, stats etc.... which honestly is bad enough even with swords, but completely unbearable with guns.

[AdamJenson]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

Yeah, I'm 100% with android654. Fantasy games are a dime a dozen (actually more like two dozen). They are numerous beyond counting, repetitious, variations on a VERY narrow theme. You can't fling a penny in a game store (such that still exist) or a virtual penny on an online game store without hitting, literally, a pentillion gazillion sword-and-sorcery-dungeons-and-dragons games. How can you tell them apart? At this stage, all any company need do is cut and paste characters and plots from the pentillion gazillion sword and magic games to create a, viola!, "new" fantasy game!

It's rare that they are good however, The Witcher is one such rarity.

[mupp3tz]

Isn't the argument kind of moot since that's the entire point of genres? 99% of games can be conveniently filed into broad categories. There's a reason common themes/archetypes are present because we have been taught how to read into them.

[termokanden]

android654 wrote...

I love Bloodlines too, but it's not Cyberpunk and it's not about people on the bottom of the social ladder. Even as a Nosferatu, you're a vampire so you're automatically higher than most of the planet's population. So it's hard to feel bad about any of the vampires in the game when they run a shadow government that runs the world. That being said, it's a Gothic story, and as someone who used to run in that crowd I know that's it's actually very lively and isn't without it's humor. So yeah, it's dark, but only because it's goth. The majority of the subject matter itself was never intended to be dark.

I never claimed it was cyberpunk but I think it's a clear example that a game can be dark without being depressing. The presentation just lightens it up because it isn't one sob story after another.

Sure it's not the darkest game ever, but if you don't think it's dark then I guess we don't agree about the definition.

As for all this anti-fantasy stuff, I don't know where it's coming from. Many early and popular RPGs were in fantasy worlds (no pun intended), and so it's only natural that the CRPGs took inspiration from that. There's no reason to hate all fantasy, but at the same time not every RPG has to be about knights and dragons obviously.

Modifié par termokanden, 30 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[AdamJenson]

Aeowyn wrote...

The same can be said about shooter games...

Why should a "modern" or near future or future/sci-fi game be a "shooter"?  I'm not talking shooter.

I liked the fairly high uniqueness of ME because it was sci-fi, NOT all wizardy and warriory.  My Shepard wasn't "grizzled", he was a pretty normal military type.  I COULD have done without the spillover from the typical fantasy genre, however (biotics ARE the same as wizards or mages in fantasy games - that is just plain magic right there but in sci-fi clothing).  

As for my namesake and DEHR, he wasn't "grizzled" either...just an ex-cop doing corporate security who gets swept up into something MUCH bigger than he bargained for or expected.  I like that.  

In any case, ALL stories are trope.  All stories have been told before in ways that have been done before...some have just been done WAY more than others (*COUGH!*wizards!*COUGH*swordsman*COUGH*some kind of "dark spawn" magicky thing spreading*COUGH!).  More of the former, much less of the latter thank you.  With a cherry on top.