98 réponses à ce sujet

[brushyourteeth]

cindercatz wrote...

ME3's Liara romance is the best I've seen from BioWare (if you imported her romance), because there's so much that changes to suit the relationship, and there's a lot of intimacy on display (other than the love scene itself, which is the best in the game and the worst scene in the relationship at the same time). Even so, I felt it wasn't quite as integrated as it should've been. There were a few scenes that didn't change that should have, and that left me afraid my story had been glitched for a while, and then all of those relationship things, the most important aspect of Mass Effect imo, aren't realized in the end, and that's a game killer.

You're hitting on something there that I think has been nagging at me since playing both DAII and ME3 (which, really, the DA team had no control over, but it shows they're not the only great team in the world to overlook this). And that's that I really feel that past a certain point in your relationship, every conversation with your LI should be at least subtly nuanced toward the romance that you share. Like you, I found myself in conversations with Kaidan or Anders or Fenris and thinking "Did we break up? Did I miss a flag? Did he forget about me? Are we just keeping it professional?" Whether you were actually involved with Liara in ME3 or not, she was nearly always giving you these lingering glances that were pretty full of longing, so that was something.

I felt like DA:O accomplished this quite neatly just in the change of the way that each LI would greet you as your relationship progressed. Alistair's "at your service" made me swoon every.stinking.time and Morrigan's giggle was amazing because you know for a fact she doesn't giggle like that for anyone else. It was a nice reminder of where you stood with your LI. I'd love to see something like that come back and even be improved on. Maybe even something like "Thanks for talking with me. You always know how to make me smile." or a saucy "I'll feel a lot better once I have you back inside my tent!" or similar surprises added to the end of the conversations you'd share whether you were friends or lovers.

[cindercatz]

brushyourteeth wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

ME3's Liara romance is the best I've seen from BioWare (if you imported her romance), because there's so much that changes to suit the relationship, and there's a lot of intimacy on display (other than the love scene itself, which is the best in the game and the worst scene in the relationship at the same time). Even so, I felt it wasn't quite as integrated as it should've been. There were a few scenes that didn't change that should have, and that left me afraid my story had been glitched for a while, and then all of those relationship things, the most important aspect of Mass Effect imo, aren't realized in the end, and that's a game killer.

You're hitting on something there that I think has been nagging at me since playing both DAII and ME3 (which, really, the DA team had no control over, but it shows they're not the only great team in the world to overlook this). And that's that I really feel that past a certain point in your relationship, every conversation with your LI should be at least subtly nuanced toward the romance that you share. Like you, I found myself in conversations with Kaidan or Anders or Fenris and thinking "Did we break up? Did I miss a flag? Did he forget about me? Are we just keeping it professional?" Whether you were actually involved with Liara in ME3 or not, she was nearly always giving you these lingering glances that were pretty full of longing, so that was something.

I felt like DA:O accomplished this quite neatly just in the change of the way that each LI would greet you as your relationship progressed. Alistair's "at your service" made me swoon every.stinking.time and Morrigan's giggle was amazing because you know for a fact she doesn't giggle like that for anyone else. It was a nice reminder of where you stood with your LI. I'd love to see something like that come back and even be improved on. Maybe even something like "Thanks for talking with me. You always know how to make me smile." or a saucy "I'll feel a lot better once I have you back inside my tent!" or similar surprises added to the end of the conversations you'd share whether you were friends or lovers.

Totally agreed. Every personal scene, at least. I wouldn't ask for every scream of "Hawke!" to turn to "No! My love!", lol, but yeah. I'd also like to see the default physicality change. Maybe your lover leans closer by default when sitting, looks at you more closely in group conversation, tries to stand a little closer to you, things like that.

[TJX2045]

wsandista wrote...

1. Well for starters, a good character is essential for a good romance.

2. Then the plot of the romance has to be good. It also usually helps if the LI is a dynamic character.

3. Finally each romance should end up uniquely depending on the PC's choices and the LI.

The DAO romances had all three requirements, while DA2 seem to have lacked the last. that could just be my bias showing though, Morrigan, Alistair, and Zevran were amazing LIs. Leliana was ok, nut i wasn't really too fond of her, she just seemed wrong for most of my PCs.

I agree with this.

I think there are pretty good ideas in this thread.  I expected number 3 to have some kind of factor in DA2 at least in some aspect.  In DAO characters were aware of what your specializations were so if you were a Templar and spoke to a Templar they treated you differently.  I expected Anders and Merrill, two of the mages, to react in different ways if you romanced them as a Templar or as a Blood Mage or a non-Blood Mage.  In my first playthrough of the game, which was as a mage with no blood magic, I assumed this was the case.  Of course on the second playthrough I sadly noticed it was no different really overall.

[Dave of Canada]

Conflict, characters which might learn to dislike you and even hate you despite you showering them with compliments and no fan catering. A character who's entirely personality changes due to the player showing them tru wub is disgusting.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 03 juin 2012 - 06:25 .

[DarkDragon777]

Not instantly falling in love after having intercourse...

[Volus Warlord]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Not instantly falling in love after having intercourse...

Especially if you paid for it. Lol.

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

ME3's Liara romance is the best I've seen from BioWare (if you imported her romance), because there's so much that changes to suit the relationship, and there's a lot of intimacy on display (other than the love scene itself, which is the best in the game and the worst scene in the relationship at the same time). Even so, I felt it wasn't quite as integrated as it should've been. There were a few scenes that didn't change that should have, and that left me afraid my story had been glitched for a while, and then all of those relationship things, the most important aspect of Mass Effect imo, aren't realized in the end, and that's a game killer.

You're hitting on something there that I think has been nagging at me since playing both DAII and ME3 (which, really, the DA team had no control over, but it shows they're not the only great team in the world to overlook this). And that's that I really feel that past a certain point in your relationship, every conversation with your LI should be at least subtly nuanced toward the romance that you share. Like you, I found myself in conversations with Kaidan or Anders or Fenris and thinking "Did we break up? Did I miss a flag? Did he forget about me? Are we just keeping it professional?" Whether you were actually involved with Liara in ME3 or not, she was nearly always giving you these lingering glances that were pretty full of longing, so that was something.

I felt like DA:O accomplished this quite neatly just in the change of the way that each LI would greet you as your relationship progressed. Alistair's "at your service" made me swoon every.stinking.time and Morrigan's giggle was amazing because you know for a fact she doesn't giggle like that for anyone else. It was a nice reminder of where you stood with your LI. I'd love to see something like that come back and even be improved on. Maybe even something like "Thanks for talking with me. You always know how to make me smile." or a saucy "I'll feel a lot better once I have you back inside my tent!" or similar surprises added to the end of the conversations you'd share whether you were friends or lovers.

Agree! To be fair, there was a little of this in DA2... like Fenris's "I am yours" and others, which sometimes were my only indication that he was still romanced... But, indeed, it would be nice to have a few more. Like, my continuing pet peeve with Anders was how the things he said *didn't* change much when he was romanced... specifically, how he moves in to my fancy-dancy mansion and still complains that he "should find a nicer place." Grr.

[LolaLei]

I agree. I would absolutely love to see more intimacy with the protagonist and his/her LI's interactions, like lingering exchanges, blushing shy looks, or checking each other out during party banter etc. I don't know how easy it is to impliment into a game but even if it's just one companion commenting that said potential LI is checking out the other would work equally as well (like Wynne does to Alistair when she catches him staring at the Warden's arse in DA:O.)

I'd also like to see the protagonist responding to his/her LI when they show concern, rather than just staring glassy eyed into space. I want to see protagonist and the companions comforting each other in times of trouble physically, rather than just with words, so for example, if one of your companion's dog died you could put your arm around them and give them a friendly hug and/or offer them a swig from your hip flask as you try to calm them with words of wisdom etc.

[R0vena]

Well, Merrill did comment on Fenris looking at Hawke with "puppy eyes", but I agree, a bit more of such little moments would be nice.
ps And please, no dying dogs or other animals. Just... no.

Modifié par R0vena, 04 juin 2012 - 06:49 .

[LolaLei]

R0vena wrote...

Well, Merrill did comment on Fenris looking at Hawke with "puppy eyes", but I agree, a bit more of such little moments would be nice.
ps And please, no dying dogs or other animals. Just... no.

*Sigh* that was just a quick example, I couldn't be arsed to think up anything more elaborate just to put my point across. It would be a bit crap if they did run with the "oh sh!t my dogs dead" example I used up there. Urgh.

To make things clearer, if a companion is upset about whatever, then it would be cool if we could comfort them.

Modifié par LolaLei, 04 juin 2012 - 06:56 .

[R2s Muse]

LolaLei wrote...

R0vena wrote...

Well, Merrill did comment on Fenris looking at Hawke with "puppy eyes", but I agree, a bit more of such little moments would be nice.
ps And please, no dying dogs or other animals. Just... no.

*Sigh* that was just a quick example, I couldn't be arsed to think up anything more elaborate just to put my point across. It would be a bit crap if they did run with the "oh sh!t my dogs dead" example I used up there. Urgh.

To make things clearer, if a companion is upset about whatever, then it would be cool if we could comfort them.

LOL agree. And, you know, I was just reminded that they did put some of that in the DA2 battle cries, like when you die/fall your LI says something particular I believe. (took me a while before I got the sound turned down enough to actually hear those). But I'd think I'd trade those throw away sounds for other interactions.

[LolaLei]

Yeah, Anders cry for a fallen romanced Hawke was actually really gut wrenching... It's weird seeing some of the stuff Anders VA says on Twitter, it's hard to believe it's even the same guy! ... I guess that's the sign of a good actor!

I think in general I'd just like more interaction with our companions, but not in relegated time slots (like we got in DA2.)

[Samzo77]

I'd say it's:
1) Unique, character specific, expressions of love. Lelianna is up for sex all the time because she sees it as an expression of love, but Morrigan sees sex as a tool to get things, so she won't sleep with you once she feels she loves you. Someone else mentioned Merrill's conversation with Aveline, which was her expression of what you do when you love someone.
2) A classic love story needs turmoil and conflict. Something thats a potential deal breaker, like Isabella betraying you, or Merrill's obsession with that mirror. These moments make you wonder if you should stick it out with them.
3) Choices. The more people you can choose to romance, the more special the person is that you chose.

That's all I've got right now.

[Reznik23]

hussey 92 wrote...

what makes a good romance? How about sex without clothes on.

Absolutely, this isn't a 1980s tevision movie. People (usually) have sex while naked.
Why not have a toggle in options menu to switch full nudity on or off?

 

[Chiramu]

Realism makes a good romance.

The character you choose to romance should be more of a "best friend" because that's basically what your partner/life partner is to you in real life.

[Uccio]

A blood mage (pc) and templar relationship/drama would be cool too. Templar would try to convince pc to drop blood magic through out the relationship.

[Karlone123]

1. Heartfelt moments
2. Personality to over rule looks otherwise it's not a good romance to me
3. Make the player feel an emotional connection to the romance option

Modifié par Karlone123, 08 juin 2012 - 07:24 .

[RaggieRags]

My personal favorite LI of mine is Gavin, a fan-made mod for the Baldur's Gate saga... I guess one thing that felt better with it was how naturally the relationship seemed to grow. Gavin asked my character a lot of questions about her, which made me feel like he was genuinely interested in her as a person, and love seemed to grow out of respect and admiration. Some (i.e. most) actual Bioware romances feel they come out of nowhere.

Sometimes the romances do feel like they are there for achievements. You just bag them and move on to the next. That's not really romance. I don't have anything against one-night-stands like Kelly, but I don't personally enjoy pursuing them. It's much more interesting when the characters get emotionally involved. In fact, I'd like to see more strong non-romantic relationships. Maybe your character has to build a relationship with a long-lost relative or a family member, or maybe one of those partnership-type relationships like Frodo and Sam, Kirk and Spock or Strarsky and Hutch.

[cindercatz]

RaggieRags wrote...

Sometimes the romances do feel like they are there for achievements. You just bag them and move on to the next. That's not really romance. I don't have anything against one-night-stands like Kelly, but I don't personally enjoy pursuing them. It's much more interesting when the characters get emotionally involved. In fact, I'd like to see more strong non-romantic relationships. Maybe your character has to build a relationship with a long-lost relative or a family member, or maybe one of those partnership-type relationships like Frodo and Sam, Kirk and Spock or Strarsky and Hutch.

Totally agreed with this. I want to see more relationship types and see them all more fully explored, like different family and friend/partner/colleague types, as well as stronger, more central romances. I'm not against one night stands being in the game, though. The Human Noble used that to great effect in DA:O, the dalish have a memorable quest along these lines, and there's Isabella's first appearance. It's just that if that's all it is, then it should be treated for exactly that, and full romances should be treated as full relationships throughout the game. It shouldn't be that you get one or the other character and you're forced into only one, then one character turns out to be trivial and the other long term important. DA:O did this right. It let you sow your character's oats, play the field, and the characters could grow on you naturally, then you become attached and commit.. and then you might even get rejected, depending on how things have progressed. That's a good way to go.

[LolaLei]

RaggieRags wrote...

My personal favorite LI of mine is Gavin, a fan-made mod for the Baldur's Gate saga... I guess one thing that felt better with it was how naturally the relationship seemed to grow. Gavin asked my character a lot of questions about her, which made me feel like he was genuinely interested in her as a person, and love seemed to grow out of respect and admiration. Some (i.e. most) actual Bioware romances feel they come out of nowhere.

Sometimes the romances do feel like they are there for achievements. You just bag them and move on to the next. That's not really romance. I don't have anything against one-night-stands like Kelly, but I don't personally enjoy pursuing them. It's much more interesting when the characters get emotionally involved. In fact, I'd like to see more strong non-romantic relationships. Maybe your character has to build a relationship with a long-lost relative or a family member, or maybe one of those partnership-type relationships like Frodo and Sam, Kirk and Spock or Strarsky and Hutch.

Having the love interest ask questions about your character and show interest in getting to know you would be awesome, although I imagine it's probably harder to do these days, what with a voiced protagonist and only a small handful of replies to give.

[RaggieRags]

LolaLei wrote...

Having the love interest ask questions about your character and show interest in getting to know you would be awesome, although I imagine it's probably harder to do these days, what with a voiced protagonist and only a small handful of replies to give.

That's true. Even just a little would go a long way though. Maybe someone could just ask how you're doing? Maybe you could get the opportunity to vent a little to the other characters, instead of you being the party therapist for a change. It would certainly give the impression that the LI cares.

It would also give a stronger impression that the characters are getting to know you if they'd comment on the game events and your choices more. Right now it feels a bit odd how you can do some pretty extreme things and the whole party mostly just stands there.

I don't think the "official" Bioware romances will ever be able to match the best fan-written mods to be honest. The fan writers can put their entire energy on a single character without having to worry about deadlines... or ratings. It's funny how some mods have very detailed sex scenes, but they feel a lot less like they are there for the sake of titillation, unlike some sex (or sexiness) in Bioware's games. Even when Bioware's romances have less sex, they somehow revolve more around sex, while many mods feel more like relationships. I guess Bioware assumes people want that sort of thing, even though every time people start talking about what they like about the romances I get the exact opposite impression. How many people here just want easily unlockable sex scenes with as many characters as possible?

[LolaLei]

RaggieRags wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Having the love interest ask questions about your character and show interest in getting to know you would be awesome, although I imagine it's probably harder to do these days, what with a voiced protagonist and only a small handful of replies to give.

That's true. Even just a little would go a long way though. Maybe someone could just ask how you're doing? Maybe you could get the opportunity to vent a little to the other characters, instead of you being the party therapist for a change. It would certainly give the impression that the LI cares.

It would also give a stronger impression that the characters are getting to know you if they'd comment on the game events and your choices more. Right now it feels a bit odd how you can do some pretty extreme things and the whole party mostly just stands there.

I don't think the "official" Bioware romances will ever be able to match the best fan-written mods to be honest. The fan writers can put their entire energy on a single character without having to worry about deadlines... or ratings. It's funny how some mods have very detailed sex scenes, but they feel a lot less like they are there for the sake of titillation, unlike some sex (or sexiness) in Bioware's games. Even when Bioware's romances have less sex, they somehow revolve more around sex, while many mods feel more like relationships. I guess Bioware assumes people want that sort of thing, even though every time people start talking about what they like about the romances I get the exact opposite impression. How many people here just want easily unlockable sex scenes with as many characters as possible?

Funnily enough we were actually talking about something similar to this in the Official Cullen thread.

We were saying that, with all the ideas we've had for things we'd like to see happening to him in DA3 (if he was a companion/LI) we actually have enough content to cover his entire backstory, storyline, romance arc, sex scene plus dlc and any future novels and comics containing him. What's sad is hypothetical version of DA3 we have in our minds (not just about the companions, but possible quests, environments etc) will probably be nothing like the DA3 we'll actually end up with LOL.

[applehug]

Honestly if romances weren't there in the first place I wouldn't shed a tear.

[seanileus]

Hawke displaying affection, or at least care, towards his/her romance option.

http://givethemhorns...t.com/#/d53i1xl