143 réponses à ce sujet

[mrcanada]

Adhok42 wrote...

*facepalms keyboard*

...And the solution was so simple I completely forgot.

Has anyone with the Stronghold package tried adding it to their Adepts to make them less squishy? The piece of gear that allows for increased barriers and shorter recharge time? It might help with your smash woes. That's probably why they added the gear in the first place.

Until the Stronghold is leveled up, the difference is negligable, if noticed at all.  Level 1 is 6% and 3% to recharge.

[hijackerjack]

I love the PA, but the fact that it can't detonate explosions on armored targets just kills me haha.

[Adhok42]

Anything is better than 0% increase.

[mandalorian sun]

Bobkyou wrote...

This argument that the PA is good when paired with another biotic doesn't really add to the discussion. A HS/AA/HA with a AJ/DA will do better than a PA + any other biotic, because while the PA is completely dependent on a partner to create BEs against armored targets, the HS, AA, HA, AJ, and DA can all make both solo and partner BEs.

Yes the word 'terrible' is way too strong and was a poor choice by the OP. However I've yet to see any convincing arguments as to what the PA gains in exchange for not having the ability to trigger BEs on armored targets, or being required to use an ability with such a short range.

If you love the class, great. Its only a game and all that really matters is having fun. If you think the class is 'powerful,' fine. Its powerful. The other adepts still look better in comparison though, unless I'm missing something.

Sorry to keep quoting you dude but you're right again. Saying a class can synergize well with OTHER classes is not productive, any class can do that, and most can also solo their combo's or skillsets. This is about the class alone and not about team synergy

I've been following this thread and frankly i think the lash argument that i see keep coming up is not valid. Sure it is a power that can be spammed, but seriously, every other biotic has a more spammable power that gives more bang or crowd control for it's buck. Just look at the two most similar others: throw and pull. Both have shorter cooldowns and casting animations, an impact radius (which is hugely important, don't discount those 2 meters). Throw can detonate and deal damage just as well if not better than lash, and lash's only benefit is if you spec for shield penetration, which only lasts for a few seconds, i can lash maybe one or two other enemies before he's back up and in the fight (especially on higher difficulty where everybody dodges powers), when any other biotic would have self-detonated something by then.

I already pointed out earlier why i think shockwave is more useful than smash, but come on, even the heavy melee is more useful, it's faster and actually hits MORE enemies around the adept than smash does, and i also already covered why getting close enough to armored targets to use smash often results in you dying next to the hardest enemies and therefore making it hard for you're team to revive you. Not exactly what i'd call a team player type of move. 

This class needs work, i want this class to get some attention because i like the idea and concept, but realistically every other adept outclasses it at this point in time

[Miriad]

Guys, I believe it CAN detonate on armored targets. I know the dot aspect of lash works on brutes. It only makes sense that you would be able to detonate that. My issue with the class is not that it cannot detonate, it's that it has no ranged self detonation for the big targets. And by no range, I mean shorter than shockwave, and that's short!! I struggle to find a reason to play this class in a PuG for anything but novelty. Only time I'd try it is with an AoE reaver. The explosions from 2 AoE source /detonator would be enough to at least try it. I suppose the tech version with energy drain would also be decent if you don't mind working the chokepoints. I think I'm going to start calling ythat tactic "hooking", because you're working the corner.... Bah dum tshhh

[Striker93175]

MetalHeadDev wrote...

 I wrote about this class earlier today but I've continued to play it most of the day (only new class I unlocked, thanks RNG store!!) and more I played the more I realized...this class is awful. 

Lash is a fun power but only really useful with the shield/barrier penetration. The problem with the power is that it throws the enemies past you a lot and you have to turn around and get shot in the back. The other problem is it takes a tiny bit longer to bob back into cover when using this power, and trust me on higher difficulties you get eaten alive, puked back out, eaten again, and crapped out. Although its amusing to have a phantom rush you and send that (#&*@#$ flying, the novelty soon wears off.

The smash power is wicked cool, a lot of fun to use when you're not getting killed. It does fair to moderate damage, with a frag grenade being both more powerful and having a better radius. The trick is it cant hit enemies behind cover, around corners, etc. Its fun to use, but not very practical. It's a CQC power with no real way to close with the enemy because...

...terribad health. This class, clearly, is built to get up close and paralyze the enemy with singularity, then vaporize them with smash. this is great on paper but getting close is the problem. Even with 6 points in fitness all geared towards defense and HP, enemies chew through your meager health allocation like its not there. 

This class could still be saved, I would suggest a damage resistance or flat out invulnerability period when using smash - the charge up time has gotten me killed a lot. Enemies on gold smiply laughed in my face and I died. 

Bioware, I love the new DLC, and I'm sure this class looked good on paper but in the actual game play its not really useful for anything but bronze. Silver and Gold you will die/make your team mates hate you because they're constantly running to revive you. The class feels sluggish and playing it makes taking on two or more basic enemies feel really risky. Needs buffing. Just a thought for next patch. 

I agree 100% with the exception of silver...  both vanguard and adept working in conjunction with another cerebus and/or biotic is super lethal.  Lash ability in conjunction w/ a scope on a heavy hitting pistol for the pot headshots 3/4 of the map away is like playing puppets with the enemy whipping them around like ragdolls. 

Vorcha are super fun... on bronze.  But even perked w/ MAX regen w/ max stack regen you just die a whole frigging lot on silver...  tried to join a silver and got put mid wave in a gold match and I spend every wave down within a few seconds.

Quarian are fun (only have engineer - infiltrator is the only one I'm missing) but I find 1/2 my match is spent scanning not shooting.....

[Methanoid666]

LGear wrote...

Methanoid666 wrote...

so far their buffs have been bumping up some dmg figures when instead the issue here is the classes mechanics on lash/smash which are terrible and as mentioned have abysmal synergy, add to that singularity is pathetic unless you play bronze matches only, even then its pretty poor.

Technically, the synergy for Smash/Lash is to use Lash to pull your opponent in, then use Smash to destroy them. Though the synergy breaks down when you consider that it's faster to just shoot them. 

Still, Smash is kinda difficult to use as an ability, but Lash being terrible? I couldn't disagree more. Against anything that doesn't have armor, Lash totally dominates as an ability, beating out Throw and Pull for sheer lethality. It kills anything that Throw or Pull by themselves cannot, and I don't even need to drop their shields or barriers with weapons due to the Shield Penetration evolution, which means I don't need to waste ammo on most enemies. 

if lash doesnt do a hell of a lot to pyro's/bosses etc then imho its useless esp when its not synergising well, in the same way that  the asari justicar pales in comparison to the standard asari adept.

Yeah its great watching stuff fly over the place on the weaker mobs but theres plenty of things that can down the weak mobs already inc normal gunfire, imho lash is handy/the strongest new ability the class has but its made more redundant simply because smash is too ungainly/slow/risky.

You need a similar one/two combo type setup like the normal AA, currently the PA abilities encourage running into melee range to die, which yeah is fine if your on bronze but on silver/gold ive spent more time hugging cover with mostly useless powers doing very little to contribute over just shooting enemies in the face.

Waiting for smash to do anything (if your not dead by the time its executed) is too much like the batarian heavy melee, slooooooooow wind up and in the end pointless as your either dead or someone else just opted to shoot the target in the face while your slowdancing 1/2 way through your move.

[Miriad]

Sorry, I was wrong about Bio explosions on armored. Tested on Geth prime. No bang.

[darkblade]

Geth infiltrator and MQI sucks

they can't make they own tech combos, like the others and hunter mode hurts my eyes.

Asari adept sucks because people stasis armored targets because they cant read.

I love the era of gaming we live in, people automatically assume something is off with the game when they can't do something the way they want to instead of assuming player error first.

Since we aint talkn glitches you should be assuming player error.

Ever think that maybe just maybe you can't detonate armored dude with lash is because it would be just a little too powerful then?

Ever think that smash was so short ranged and long winded because of the fact that you can cancel it halfway with heavy melee for a great combo.

Ever think that lash has a long animation because you can cancel it and with a roll or heavy melee and still get the full effect?

Geez people take the ****** out of you mouth and experiment. stop expecting people to wipe your powdered ass and push u in a stroller and learn to do stuff on your own.

[Stance Punk]

I was hoping the Cerby Adept was a really bad ass adept that can dish out. I don't want to be stuck with this wimpy Asari

[Atheosis]

Not a huge fan of the Vanguard, so I can only imagine how much I'll dislike the version that trades in Biotic Charge for Singularity (when I actually unlock it).  

[Zaraki kanzaki]

Better adept than vanguard :-)

[mase1771]

darkblade wrote...

Geth infiltrator and MQI sucks

they can't make they own tech combos, like the others and hunter mode hurts my eyes.

Asari adept sucks because people stasis armored targets because they cant read.

I love the era of gaming we live in, people automatically assume something is off with the game when they can't do something the way they want to instead of assuming player error first.

Since we aint talkn glitches you should be assuming player error.

Ever think that maybe just maybe you can't detonate armored dude with lash is because it would be just a little too powerful then?

Ever think that smash was so short ranged and long winded because of the fact that you can cancel it halfway with heavy melee for a great combo.

Ever think that lash has a long animation because you can cancel it and with a roll or heavy melee and still get the full effect?

Geez people take the ****** out of you mouth and experiment. stop expecting people to wipe your powdered ass and push u in a stroller and learn to do stuff on your own.

Umm.... where can i get that treatment? that sounds amazing!

[LoboFH]

I take my words back...the new adept is a very nice one, lash spam brings chaos to the battlefield as it can pull all the normal and shielded objectives. With other biotic classes unleash death.

6/6/6/4/4 with a carnifex 1.

Modifié par LoboFH, 30 mai 2012 - 08:38 .

[mandalorian sun]

darkblade wrote...

Geth infiltrator and MQI sucks

they can't make they own tech combos, like the others and hunter mode hurts my eyes.

Asari adept sucks because people stasis armored targets because they cant read.

I love the era of gaming we live in, people automatically assume something is off with the game when they can't do something the way they want to instead of assuming player error first.

Since we aint talkn glitches you should be assuming player error.

Ever think that maybe just maybe you can't detonate armored dude with lash is because it would be just a little too powerful then?

Ever think that smash was so short ranged and long winded because of the fact that you can cancel it halfway with heavy melee for a great combo.

Ever think that lash has a long animation because you can cancel it and with a roll or heavy melee and still get the full effect?

Geez people take the ****** out of you mouth and experiment. stop expecting people to wipe your powdered ass and push u in a stroller and learn to do stuff on your own.

Dude i am so not trying to be rude right now, but this is crazy talk, the geth infiltrator cloaks and fires proximity mine for insane debuffing damage over 4.5M, which is bigger than a non-warped biotic explosion. 

The asari adept can deliver biotic explosions to any target at any range, and just because some players don't use stasis as appropriately as they should does NOT have anything to do with the power and usefulness of the class. 

For you to defend lash and, in particular, smash, as being anywhere near as effective as an asari's powers means you must not be spending enough time with the class on anything above bronze. Every time i see a prime/banshee/atlas or other armored's, and i quick think how to handle it, i am always disappointed that my only options to deal are to run into it's face and try to smash, or.....gunfire. On an adept. Most armored targets are most dangerous at melee range, whether it's an instakill or pyro flame. 

[Fisterbear]

My thoughts on the class:

So you give us pull on steroids, and then shockwave on muscle relaxants?

Hmmmm. Not sure if want.

Chaining the heavy melee off charge for the vanguard is awesome, but this is about the adept.

Lash is tons of fun though. Tons. Of. Fun.

Modifié par Fisterbear, 31 mai 2012 - 02:18 .

[Bobkyou]

mandalorian sun wrote...

darkblade wrote...
Geth infiltrator and MQI sucks

they can't make they own tech combos, like the others and hunter mode hurts my eyes.

Asari adept sucks because people stasis armored targets because they cant read.

Dude i am so not trying to be rude right now, but this is crazy talk,

He was being sarcastic.  He was trying to draw a parrallel.

People say they PA is bad because it can't BE on armored targets.  The GI can't tech burst on anything (without using ammo powers).  Therefore the people who think the PA sucks should also think the GI sucks, which is silly because the GI is arguably the most powerful class in the game.

However his argument is flawed.  The GI being unable to setup and trigger its own TBs isn't an accurate comparison to the situation at hand.  Its more akin to an infiltrator who can't use tactical cloak or guns on armored targets.  And I'm fairly sure the vast majority of people would agree that an infiltrator who can't easily deal damage to armored targets sucks, unless the infiltrator is given huge advantages in other areas to balance this out.

Its not 'just' the fact that the PA can't BE on armored targets, its that the PA can't BE on armored targets AND he doesn't appear to get many advantages to balance out all these disadvantages.  Its a matter of how the class compares to others.  No all classes shouldn't be identical, but if you have such a large disadvantage the class needs an advantage in other areas to balance it out.

darkblade wrote...
Ever think that maybe just maybe you can't detonate armored dude with lash is because it would be just a little too powerful then?

Which would be accurate if lash were overpowered, which it isn't.  Lash deals solid damage, but it moves the target away from the group, further crippling your ability to do effective BEs.  A BE is ~3000 damage over a wide area and can hit multiple targets.  Are you truly trying to argue that lash compensates for this?

darkblade wrote...
Ever think that smash was so short ranged and long winded because of the fact that you can cancel it halfway with heavy melee for a great combo.

Ever think that lash has a long animation because you can cancel it and with a roll or heavy melee and still get the full effect?

Just because it takes skill to play a class effectively, doesn't mean a different class played with equal skill wouldn't do better.  An AA can play just fine without animation canceling or having to be within close proximity of a banshee.  What advantage does the PA gain to balance that?  Yes smash does a lot of damage, but does it justify 2.25 meters?  Yes lash deals a lot of damage, but does that justify not being able to hit armor and having zero AoE?

Modifié par Bobkyou, 31 mai 2012 - 03:16 .

[Delta095]

I played my ex-cerberus adept for the first time in a bronze match with the build stolen from me3multiplayer.com and a cerberus harrier. Best class I've ever played. In a 4-player game I scored 75 kills in 5 rounds. Only thing that could make it better is a charge ability, which is why I'm waiting for a vanguard.

[Mattressexual]

Look, I don't have time to read through 6 pages and see if someone mentioned it already or not, so here it goes.
Lash can detonate Singularity for regular unshielded enemies. Lash can also pull enemies who are shielded with the proper evolution. But the problem is mainly we all know Singularity is trash, and Smash can't set up a biotic field on protected targets. Yes it does decent damage, but the range or radius are too low to be effective. As it is, Smash needs a blast radius increase and/or needs the level 4 biotic effect to work over shields/armor/barrier (maybe it does, but hasn't worked for me and seems like just a lift). I think the electrical level 4 evolution could be worth it if you can tech burst. Dunno, haven't tried it.