98 réponses à ce sujet

[12monkeys]

'tis easy to say that a game is easy, especially if it's your 2nd or 3rd or 4th playthrough, 'cause you already know very well what you are up to. that has been the case as well with other d & d games, especially if you are playing a mage, be it a wiz or a sorc. you can prepare beforehand what spells to prepare or to take, especially if you already know what is lurking just around the corner.



the battles that i found to be particularly hard are the ones where my party is forced to a scenario, and that happens quite often. i do not think any kiting or pulling can save me from that.

[Gliese]

The trap skill could instantly become alot more useful, especially if pulling a single enemy was only possible using lures. I'm sure traps can be great as is but they feel kind of redundant to me, not worth the time and effort when it's so easy to pull and there's such a wealth of effective cc for those times when a whole group do charge you.

[Pennoyer]

Kaosgirl wrote...

Gliese wrote...

Using shimmering shield when it was bugged was an exploit, pulling enemies is using wai game mechanics to the best of your ability. It's not like we just invented pulling, it's been around for a while.

Bad Intentions, IMO, are worse than accidental bugs.  "Pulling" is, IMO, one of the worst and most obvious exploits (in the pure sense, not the gamer-jargon sense) of AI limitations there is, and I wish devs would stop implementing mechanics that support it.

I can accept that a player will want to shoot an enemy he sees far away.  This should make all nearby enemies help out.  Fights where you are forced to fight a large group at once are very challenging and satisfying for me.  The random world map encounters are good because your characters are often attacked from all sides and can not just pick guys off one at a time. 

The game can be very easy or very difficult.  I argue that the game is very difficult if you avoid using things like solo pulling.  As I recall, a lot of people complained when DA was released that it was too hard.  Once people discovered how the AI worked, the battles became cake. 

[Kaosgirl]

Bibdy wrote...
Where's the jump in difficulty there? There's a big leap from Easy to Normal, but Normal to Hard? Hard to Nightmare? Even Normal to Nightmare (TWO steps in difficulty setting)? Where are the significant change in mechanics that are meant to stress the player? Losing 5 Attack, 5 Defense, taking 5% more damage, dealing 5% less damage and healing for 15% less isn't exactly what I would consider a 'nightmare' scenario.

An idea, since you want something that changes the play of the game:
Elites or higher get 95% status-effect immunity *after* calculating resists,  normals get 50%.  This means no stunning, no freezing, no debuffing.   Also breaks taunt and other aggro-managing talents.

I suspect, watching others play, that this alone (without any damage buffing) would break most people's ability to play the game.  Until everyone shifted to pure-DPS rogue kits, then it would just all be way too easy again...
and we're back to the drawing board again.

[MerinTB]

Kaosgirl wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

SheffSteel wrote...
The community seems evenly split between the "difficulty to easy" and "easily too difficult" crowds. It's probably about right.

I know, right?
I'm not really advocating a flame war, I actually wish that they could realize they exist in about equal numbers (relatively) and see that maybe its the gamers who make it easy or hard and not the game, and since we see complaints at both ends (with a crew of us in the middle satisfied) that the game is probably just about the right balance for a mass market release.

Or perhaps not.  Depends on whether the crew in the middle outnumbers the outliers or not.  If we don't, then...

You've got a form of the Kangaxx from Shadows of Amn scenario:  impossible or trivial, with almost nothing in between.  And that's not really good - it alienates both sides, frustrating the guys who find it too hard and boring the guys who find it too easy.

Bear in mind, I already stated I'm part of the 'middle' crew here.

If there was no middle it would indeed be weird, though.  That would break things down, in my mind, to those who try to run it real time with no pausing and no tactics and just try rapidly switching between characters and those who do pause and use tactics if that were the absolute breakdown.

But even that, again, is doing what I said - maybe its the gamers who make it easy or hard, not the game.  By this I mean there are people who get how to play this kind of game, are great at exploiting the way the AI and game mechanics work, and all of it is a breeze for them (so even uping the enemy damage and weakening the heroes damage isn't going to have much of an effect when, say, you can cast AOE's through walls and the enemy AI is unable to open the door to get you) AND there are people who are used to the hackNslash of action RPGs like Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Diablo, and such so that they have difficulty coming to understand the necessity of setting tactics for their party, of pausing the game to give out orders, of thinking things through instead of hitting buttons rapidly.

I seriously do not believe we have players of one type or the other on both sides of the argument.  Either they get how to play this, and it's either good difficulty or too easy, or they don't really get how to do this, and it's barely doable difficulty or too hard.  I can't see cross-over.

[circa89]

Skellimancer wrote...

WKWBlank wrote...

I highly doubt ANYONE would find the game easy on Nightmare difficulty without cheats/god items. So yes you're game must be broken.

www.youtube.com/watch

Chain-stun for the win...

[soteria]

The community seems evenly split between the "difficulty to easy" and "easily too difficult" crowds. It's probably about right.

If what you're saying is, "We have two opposing views that seem evenly matched, so the answer must be somewhere in the middle," then I have to disagree. This isn't a game that requires twitch skills like Halo. If someone finds the game too hard, it's not because they just don't have the skillz, it's because they're doing something wrong. Or, maybe they're doing everything "right" and those of us who think it's too easy are just exploiting broken mechanics. Either way, the answer doesn't have to be in the middle just because we have groups in opposition.



Re: Game mechanics like kiting:



Kiting doesn't have to be bad. In WoW (yes, I went there), it can be a difficult and dangerous, because mobs run faster than you do by default and can hit you on the run. Also, mobs don't get so fixated on one person quite as easily.

[Kaosgirl]

MerinTB wrote...

Kaosgirl wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

SheffSteel wrote...
The community seems evenly split between the "difficulty to easy" and "easily too difficult" crowds. It's probably about right.

I know, right?
I'm not really advocating a flame war, I actually wish that they could realize they exist in about equal numbers (relatively) and see that maybe its the gamers who make it easy or hard and not the game, and since we see complaints at both ends (with a crew of us in the middle satisfied) that the game is probably just about the right balance for a mass market release.

Or perhaps not.  Depends on whether the crew in the middle outnumbers the outliers or not.  If we don't, then...

You've got a form of the Kangaxx from Shadows of Amn scenario:  impossible or trivial, with almost nothing in between.  And that's not really good - it alienates both sides, frustrating the guys who find it too hard and boring the guys who find it too easy.

Bear in mind, I already stated I'm part of the 'middle' crew here.

If there was no middle it would indeed be weird, though.  That would break things down, in my mind, to those who try to run it real time with no pausing and no tactics and just try rapidly switching between characters and those who do pause and use tactics if that were the absolute breakdown.

See, what I was thinking was more along the lines of what tactics are being used.

Kangaxx was an encounter in BG2, where if you knew "the trick" to beating him he couldn't touch you unless you got unlucky.  If you didn't, he was almost guaranteed to wipe you out without being touched himself. 

[GHL_Soul_Reaver]

it is too easy, as long as you know in what you want to do then you can even do it without pausing the game.



I believe the main reason for pausing is meant mostly for console players as it is though.

[Timortis]

Bibdy wrote...

And as evidence of that fact, look at this page: http://dragonage.gul....php/difficulty

Where's the jump in difficulty there? There's a big leap from Easy to Normal, but Normal to Hard? Hard to Nightmare? Even Normal to Nightmare (TWO steps in difficulty setting)? Where are the significant change in mechanics that are meant to stress the player? Losing 5 Attack, 5 Defense, taking 5% more damage, dealing 5% less damage and healing for 15% less isn't exactly what I would consider a 'nightmare' scenario.

That page doesn't tell the whole story, not nearly. There are checks in a lot of spells and talents, that alter how they function on different difficulty levels. Frozen mobs don't shatter most of the time on Nightmare, stuns and CC don't last as long and get resisted more often etc etc. A lot of things work differently, that page doesn't describe them all.

[soteria]

Timortis wrote...

Bibdy wrote...

And as evidence of that fact, look at this page: http://dragonage.gul....php/difficulty

Where's the jump in difficulty there? There's a big leap from Easy to Normal, but Normal to Hard? Hard to Nightmare? Even Normal to Nightmare (TWO steps in difficulty setting)? Where are the significant change in mechanics that are meant to stress the player? Losing 5 Attack, 5 Defense, taking 5% more damage, dealing 5% less damage and healing for 15% less isn't exactly what I would consider a 'nightmare' scenario.

That page doesn't tell the whole story, not nearly. There are checks in a lot of spells and talents, that alter how they function on different difficulty levels. Frozen mobs don't shatter most of the time on Nightmare, stuns and CC don't last as long and get resisted more often etc etc. A lot of things work differently, that page doesn't describe them all.

I can shatter monsters consistently on nightmare, unless my attack missed or is resisted.  If you want I could even make a video showing it.  I haven't noticed stuns lasting less time, but maybe they do.  "A lot" more often is hard to quantify.  People tend to notice resists and misses a lot.  5% increased chance to resist doesn't sound like a lot, and it's not, really, but it "feels" big in practice when your stone fist gets resisted on that frozen mob.  I've never timed the duration of, say, force field in nightmare and normal to see if you're right or not.  Maybe I will.

[Skellimancer]

soteria wrote...

Timortis wrote...

Bibdy wrote...

And as evidence of that fact, look at this page: http://dragonage.gul....php/difficulty

Where's the jump in difficulty there? There's a big leap from Easy to Normal, but Normal to Hard? Hard to Nightmare? Even Normal to Nightmare (TWO steps in difficulty setting)? Where are the significant change in mechanics that are meant to stress the player? Losing 5 Attack, 5 Defense, taking 5% more damage, dealing 5% less damage and healing for 15% less isn't exactly what I would consider a 'nightmare' scenario.

That page doesn't tell the whole story, not nearly. There are checks in a lot of spells and talents, that alter how they function on different difficulty levels. Frozen mobs don't shatter most of the time on Nightmare, stuns and CC don't last as long and get resisted more often etc etc. A lot of things work differently, that page doesn't describe them all.

I can shatter monsters consistently on nightmare, unless my attack missed or is resisted.  If you want I could even make a video showing it.  I haven't noticed stuns lasting less time, but maybe they do.  "A lot" more often is hard to quantify.  People tend to notice resists and misses a lot.  5% increased chance to resist doesn't sound like a lot, and it's not, really, but it "feels" big in practice when your stone fist gets resisted on that frozen mob.  I've never timed the duration of, say, force field in nightmare and normal to see if you're right or not.  Maybe I will.

As long as you have a Mage with you the game is far to easy.

[Micon2]

fluffyamoeba wrote...

The game does scale partly to the PC's level. It is possible that the respec is having the effect of treating the PC as lower level than they actually are. You are probably better off posting on the mod's forum/comments pages as the author is likely to have the best idea why it might be.

I wonder just how much the game does scale, I am having a very frustrating time from battle to battle without resave again and again. It does not seem possible a lot of the time to win.
I know that I do not fully understand how to use tactics and use those extra slots. Some help or advice on this part of the game would be appreciated.
So if you find it too easy then please, how? 
And I did not mean you fluffyamoeba I was replying to how hard the mod scales, Soldiers peak, wow really , its taken me 16 reload to get here I think 1 level from top.

[Timortis]

soteria wrote...

I can shatter monsters consistently on nightmare, unless my attack missed or is resisted.  If you want I could even make a video showing it.  I haven't noticed stuns lasting less time, but maybe they do.  "A lot" more often is hard to quantify.  People tend to notice resists and misses a lot.  5% increased chance to resist doesn't sound like a lot, and it's not, really, but it "feels" big in practice when your stone fist gets resisted on that frozen mob.  I've never timed the duration of, say, force field in nightmare and normal to see if you're right or not.  Maybe I will.

And I could make a video showing me critting on frozen mobs and not shattering, then what? Luckily, there's no need, the scripts are not secret, people have posted them here before. The script for shatter does scale the possibility based on difficulty level. Same for a lot of other effects.

[Gliese]

In my opinion if you find the game too difficult it's probably not because you haven't mastered the tactics system. Instead you perhaps have not realised that optimal gameplay from you means not using tactics at all. Tactics is something you use to cut down on micromanagement and pausing. It makes the game a bit faster and more fluid to play but it's not ever going to make your team stronger compared to directing all actions manually.

Modifié par Gliese, 12 décembre 2009 - 03:08 .

[soteria]

And I could make a video showing me critting on frozen mobs and not shattering, then what? Luckily, there's no need, the scripts are not secret, people have posted them here before. The script for shatter does scale the possibility based on difficulty level. Same for a lot of other effects.

Do so. I'd be interested to see you producing that effect with any sort of consistency, because that's completely contrary to my experience on nightmare. I haven't noticed "regular" criticals shattering enemies, but I didn't notice that happening on hard, either.  As for the scripts.... I'm from Missouri.  Show me.

I wonder just how much the game does scale, I am having a very frustrating time from battle to battle without resave again and again. It does not seem possible a lot of the time to win.
I know that I do not fully understand how to use tactics and use those extra slots.http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/crying.png Some help or advice on this part of the game would be appreciated.
So if you find it too easy then please, how?

Hmm. Well, any number of things can make the game a lot easier for you. I assume you're playing on normal or easy. Just remember that your tactics work in order, so put the most important ones first. If you're using Morrigan, be sure to give her at least Heal. Set her first tactic to "Party member

Make sure your rogues are using poisons (deathroot extract is great) and your mage is casting crowd control spells like sleep, force field, cone of cold, paralysis, and petrify on enemies. Have your toughest warrior pick up the Taunt talent, and use it. Kill mages first, always. One way to shorten a lot of fights in a hurry is to have a mage cast cone of cold on as large a group as you can manage (3-5 is fine). Pause the game. Then have each of your party members "force" a critical to shatter an enemy--critical shot, might blow, overpower, critical strike, stone fist, crushing prison, all work. If you do it right you can have 3 or 4 "white" enemies dead in a few seconds.

Modifié par soteria, 12 décembre 2009 - 03:36 .

[Skellimancer]

www.youtube.com/watch

Easiest boss in the game? :happy:

[Pennoyer]

Skellimancer wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

Easiest boss in the game? :happy:

That is the type of thing that makes me feel the game is not actually too easy.  There are just numerous ways to outsmart the enemy AI.  Picking those enemies off one by one makes the fight pretty simple.  Going toe to toe with them all in the room with Zathrian is a different story.  There are plenty of points in the game where fights are easily won with knowledge of the map layout and how to pull enemies one at a time.

[soteria]

She did it the hard way, imo. I don't think I needed a heal in my most recent playthrough, although I did use a mage--I had her cast blizzard on all the extras, then I just bumrushed Zathrian. I don't think he got a single spell off. It was Shield Pummel, Pommel Strike, Shield Bash, Rejuvenate, Overpower, Dirty Fighting, Shield Pummel.... the fight ends when he "dies," so. If you really wanted to cheese that fight you could just have a mage cast mana clash, I guess. Never tried the spell myself.

Edit:  I guess this post sounds really elitist.  Sorry.  I just really didn't find any of the boss fights especially challenging after my first full play through, and there's just so many ways to beat any of the fights.

Modifié par soteria, 12 décembre 2009 - 04:51 .

[Pennoyer]

soteria wrote...

She did it the hard way, imo. I don't think I needed a heal in my most recent playthrough, although I did use a mage--I had her cast blizzard on all the extras, then I just bumrushed Zathrian. I don't think he got a single spell off. It was Shield Pummel, Pommel Strike, Shield Bash, Rejuvenate, Overpower, Dirty Fighting, Shield Pummel.... the fight ends when he "dies," so. If you really wanted to cheese that fight you could just have a mage cast mana clash, I guess. Never tried the spell myself.

Another easy way to do the fight is to cast dispel magic on the lady and all those werewolves.  I really do enjoy watching how Skelli plays the game.  Skelli, do you have tactics on at all or do you use all abilities manually? 

[Skellimancer]

Pennoyer wrote...

soteria wrote...

She did it the hard way, imo. I don't think I needed a heal in my most recent playthrough, although I did use a mage--I had her cast blizzard on all the extras, then I just bumrushed Zathrian. I don't think he got a single spell off. It was Shield Pummel, Pommel Strike, Shield Bash, Rejuvenate, Overpower, Dirty Fighting, Shield Pummel.... the fight ends when he "dies," so. If you really wanted to cheese that fight you could just have a mage cast mana clash, I guess. Never tried the spell myself.

Another easy way to do the fight is to cast dispel magic on the lady and all those werewolves.  I really do enjoy watching how Skelli plays the game.  Skelli, do you have tactics on at all or do you use all abilities manually? 

Tactics off :happy: 

[DJoker35]

Kylazin wrote...

Hello everyone,

First let me state that I'm not trying to be a troll, but trying to see if anyone else has had an experience similiar to mine.

I decided that I was unhappy with my rogue's talents and I installed the character re-spec mod and the ancient elven boots mod. After respeccing, I disabled and removed the mod and had to force load my game. Now it seems that the difficulty level is broken. I'm playing on nightmare, but none of the creatures are presenting a challenge. My party (Morrigan as healer, Lelianna, Alistair, and my DW Rogue) tear through pretty much all the monsters without anyone dying. I'm not using any enhanced items or special abilities other than what the characters would normally have at their level.

Is it possible that the mods somehow broke the games difficulty making it much easier? Playing my previous games, I had a lot more trouble for some fights with my mage and my warrior.

Anyone experience anything similar?

I had this happen as well. After disabling the mods, my character seemed to have an extreme amount of stamina, did huge damage per hit, and nothing seemed to be scaling right. I was running anothr character with a similar build but different origin at the same time, but with no mods used from the beginning, and the difference was drastic. I ended up dropping the apparantly "broken" game.

Thing is, used some of the same mods in a different game and didn;t have this come up at all when they were disabled. So somthing seemed to happen at some point in just this one runthru.

[Pennoyer]

Skellimancer wrote...

Pennoyer wrote...

soteria wrote...

She did it the hard way, imo. I don't think I needed a heal in my most recent playthrough, although I did use a mage--I had her cast blizzard on all the extras, then I just bumrushed Zathrian. I don't think he got a single spell off. It was Shield Pummel, Pommel Strike, Shield Bash, Rejuvenate, Overpower, Dirty Fighting, Shield Pummel.... the fight ends when he "dies," so. If you really wanted to cheese that fight you could just have a mage cast mana clash, I guess. Never tried the spell myself.

Another easy way to do the fight is to cast dispel magic on the lady and all those werewolves.  I really do enjoy watching how Skelli plays the game.  Skelli, do you have tactics on at all or do you use all abilities manually? 

Tactics off :happy: 

Very nice.  I always thought the game would be tedious playing with no tactics but watching you use everyone at once makes me think otherwise.  I request that you post a vid of the Branka fight

[soteria]

Pennoyer wrote...

soteria wrote...

She did it the hard way, imo. I don't think I needed a heal in my most recent playthrough, although I did use a mage--I had her cast blizzard on all the extras, then I just bumrushed Zathrian. I don't think he got a single spell off. It was Shield Pummel, Pommel Strike, Shield Bash, Rejuvenate, Overpower, Dirty Fighting, Shield Pummel.... the fight ends when he "dies," so. If you really wanted to cheese that fight you could just have a mage cast mana clash, I guess. Never tried the spell myself.

Another easy way to do the fight is to cast dispel magic on the lady and all those werewolves.  I really do enjoy watching how Skelli plays the game.  Skelli, do you have tactics on at all or do you use all abilities manually? 

That's funny, it never occurred to me that I could just dispel that paralysis effect, I just assumed it was a game mechanic in place to keep the fights hard.  Is the Branka/Caridin fight the same?

[Skellimancer]

Pennoyer wrote...


Very nice.  I always thought the game would be tedious playing with no tactics but watching you use everyone at once makes me think otherwise.  I request that you post a vid of the Branka fight

I might end up using potions in that one