314 réponses à ce sujet

[frylock23]

Lord Goose wrote...



But with Control and Synthesis its not the same situation. Also, what's why I'm thinking that theories about Control and Synthesis being "LIES!" are so popular. If they're lies, where is no other option, and you can only choose destroy regardless of morality.

I think you over simplify.

I don't think that Control and Synthesis are lies. If the Catalyst has a problem anywhere it's that he's trying to convince us that he's a White Knight who saving us from a hypothetical problem that he thinks is a certainty, but that we have no actual reason to think will ever necessarily exist. However, in order to avoid it, all advanced civilizations in the known galaxy must be utterly destroyed every 50,000 years. That's where he has his little problem with me.

No my resistance to Control lies in my disbelief that Shepard could actually manage any degree of Control.

TIM controls Shepard (makes her shoot Anderson)
Reapers control TIM (Catalyst says this is why TIM can't control them)
But Shepard can control Reapers? (Catalyst also says this)

That doesn't add up to me, so that's why I say Control is too chancy for my Shepards to risk everything on. If I'm right about it, then I lose everything because Shepard wouldn't be able to control the Reapers either no matter what Catalyst asserts. And at the moment that Shepard chooses, s/he can't know what will result only what she knows to that point which is what I've outlined above. AND, the Reapers will fly away.

My resistance to Synthesis lies in the moral implications of forcibly rewriting every form of life in ways we can't even begin to guess at. There's also the reality that after Synthesis, there will no longer be any organic or synthetic life; it will all be something else. So, in effect, you will have wiped out everything and everyone you were fighting for. AND, to top it, the Reapers will still fly away.

[frylock23]

DubVee12 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

All of them? No
Some definately would. When you have people advocating blowing up the charon relay as a possibility to beat the Reapers conventionally, then yes I believe people would still pick it.

You mean the ones that don't realize that explosions travel slower than light?

Yes, those people. If they would sacrifice the solar system in a plan that wouldn't even work, they most definately would do it in the destroy ending. Because destroy is the only ending that actually defeats the reapers and makes Shep a legend apparently....<_<

Really, you mean the Stargazer doesn't appear after any of the other endings? I thought he appeared after all of them because he had to shill for DLC.

[Lord Goose]

Control and synthesis lets them continue living, get away with trillions of murders and allowes them to continue the cycle at some point in the future.

In synthesis harvesting is essentially impossible. Harvest is the process of creating Reaper from organics. If where are no organics beigns, it is impossible to start the harvest. And where is no purpose if it, since synthetics will not wipe out anybody.

Also, the harvesting was Catalyst solution to the problem of chaos. And he himself acknowledges what the solution will not work anymore.

[Jamie9]

Lord Goose wrote...

My 2nd Shepard picks Destroy. He hates AI, and allows the Quarians to wipe out the Geth. He easily picks Destroy. I don't hate the option. It's just not the "paragon option".

Making peace between geth and quarins can be renegade solution. The difference is motive. Paragon believes what everybody should survive and the geth are truly living being. Renegade may not think about the geth as living beings, but he may want to use them as combat force.

Again, I fail to explain myself very well ha ha. My 2nd Shep is a Renegon. He doesn't do everything EVIL for teh lulz. He has reasons. He kept Legion in ME2 because Legion was useful. It also did interest him to see their perspective, even if it didn't change his opinion.

He makes the decision to wipe out the Geth because they're about to upgrade themselves with Reaper code. Plus, peace isn't available. Tali died in the suicide mission.

[legion999]

BigGuy28 wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

All of them? No
Some definately would. When you have people advocating blowing up the charon relay as a possibility to beat the Reapers conventionally, then yes I believe people would still pick it.

You mean the ones that don't realize that explosions travel slower than light?

Yes, those people. If they would sacrifice the solar system in a plan that wouldn't even work, they most definately would do it in the destroy ending. Because destroy is the only ending that actually defeats the reapers and makes Shep a legend apparently....<_<

Destroy is the only one that defeats the reapers. Control and synthesis lets them continue living, get away with trillions of murders and allowes them to continue the cycle at some point in the future.

Another one WRONG.



They've murdered quadrillions.

[frylock23]

Lord Goose wrote...

Control and synthesis lets them continue living, get away with trillions of murders and allowes them to continue the cycle at some point in the future.

In synthesis harvesting is essentially impossible. Harvest is the process of creating Reaper from organics. If where are no organics beigns, it is impossible to start the harvest. And where is no purpose if it, since synthetics will not wipe out anybody.

Also, the harvesting was Catalyst solution to the problem of chaos. And he himself acknowledges what the solution will not work anymore.

And organic life will not pop up anywhere else ... ever?

[PsyrenY]

BigGuy28 wrote...

Destroy is the only one that defeats the reapers. Control and synthesis lets them continue living, get away with trillions of murders and allowes them to continue the cycle at some point in the future.

Your goal is to end the Reaper THREAT, which all three endings do. Destroying them is only one way of achieving this goal, and one that shortsightedly takes EDI and the Geth with them.

[glacier1701]

In regards to the OP most of the things listed as being examples of Reaper Tech are, as far as we know, NOT conclusively shown to be Reaper Tech. While obtained from the Reapers there is no indication that they were invented by the Reapers. So while the list looks good for the amount of items listed once you toss out those items that are not specifically shown to be invented by the Reapers and could ONLY come from them the list is very short and does not support the case for the Control/Synthesis endings as well.

[Jamie9]

frylock23 wrote...

And organic life will not pop up anywhere else ... ever?

The Catalyst is going ahead with the assumption that the Singularity is bad. Even if organic life came back, the synthetics would wipe them out once they took notice of them (once they reach spaceflight probably).

I believe in the singularity. I just don't believe it's a bad thing.

[Lord Goose]

TIM controls Shepard (makes her shoot Anderson)

TIM's ability may not be the same what Reapers are using. Be logical about it, TIM was going to control the Reapers. But, do Reapers have control over other Reapers? It doesn't seems so. They also lacking any sort of power to directly influence anybody (or else, they could have use the same trick on Shepard). Even though TIM is indoctrinated, his powers maybe different from Reapers powers.

Also, Shepard's mind doesn't seems to be affected by TIM's power. At very least, Shepard can either convince him to commit suicide, or trick TIM and shoot while he is distracted. Also, TIM's was going to convince Shepard what he is right. He clearly has some admiration for Shepard (he was resisting to put control chip, he didn't wanted Kai Leng to kill Shepard etc.) and wants approval. If he was controlling him, he could just made him believe.

There's also the reality that after Synthesis, there will no longer be any organic or synthetic life; it will all be something else. So, in effect, you will have wiped out everything and everyone you were fighting for. AND, to top it, the Reapers will still fly away.

Synthesis is a good ending in a sense, what it solves both problems.

a) Possibility of synthetics killing all organics. If there are only synthetic-organic hybrids, yes, it is impossible.
Reapers harvesting. It essentially becomes pointless.

But I agree, what this ending requires playing God. And, thus. amoral.

Modifié par Lord Goose, 30 mai 2012 - 09:16 .

[DubVee12]

frylock23 wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

DubVee12 wrote...

All of them? No
Some definately would. When you have people advocating blowing up the charon relay as a possibility to beat the Reapers conventionally, then yes I believe people would still pick it.

You mean the ones that don't realize that explosions travel slower than light?

Yes, those people. If they would sacrifice the solar system in a plan that wouldn't even work, they most definately would do it in the destroy ending. Because destroy is the only ending that actually defeats the reapers and makes Shep a legend apparently....<_<

Really, you mean the Stargazer doesn't appear after any of the other endings? I thought he appeared after all of them because he had to shill for DLC.

Hey, each choice is a gamble. you're willing to gamble Edi and the geth on the hope that shooting a tube will end the reapers. I'm gambling that Shepard can control the Reapers. Since the starkid said I could control them, I chose that so the Geth and Edi wouldn't die.

[The Night Mammoth]

BigGuy28 wrote...


Destroy is the only one that defeats the reapers. Control and synthesis lets them continue living, get away with trillions of murders and allowes them to continue the cycle at some point in the future.

If you choose to see control that way then it's your perogative. 

[DubVee12]

BigGuy28 wrote...

Destroy is the only one that defeats the reapers. Control and synthesis lets them continue living, get away with trillions of murders and allowes them to continue the cycle at some point in the future.

Where did you get that the cycle will continue?

[Lord Goose]

Where did you get that the cycle will continue?

That's another sort of "catalyst LIES!" thingy. It says, that Shepard would lose his humanity in machine body and in time will decide what harvest is the answer. Despite that Catalyst himself acknowledges what it is not the answer anymore.

Modifié par Lord Goose, 30 mai 2012 - 09:21 .

[mass perfection]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

frylock23 wrote...

It's not the Reapers' tech I necessarily despise. It's the Reapers, and if destroying their technology is the price of destroying them, it's part of the price I must pay. The other two endings have prices too high and leave the Reapers alive. Unacceptable and too risky.

which is why i hate synthesis and will never choose that bag of fail...
but i still think control  is a very viable solution, i was mads my renegade couldn't side with cerberus but oh well

Control is pure garbage, there is no reason for it considering organics are still going to make synthetics and start the cyclye all over again. Which means no matter what Genocide will continue with Destroy and Contol but control is really stupid because now shep is the one charge of Genocide which is everything he hates

Only if you believe that problem actually exists. 

I do not. 

Hence control. 

Have you heard of the technological singularity?

[NoUserNameHere]

DubVee12 wrote...

BigGuy28 wrote...

Destroy is the only one that defeats the reapers. Control and synthesis lets them continue living, get away with trillions of murders and allowes them to continue the cycle at some point in the future.

Where did you get that the cycle will continue?

Control turns Shepard into a being shown to fall victim to flawed/obtuse reasoning.

Synthesis only seems to work in that the Reapers can no longer recognize organics/synthetics as friend or foe. The hybrid switch means they mistake us all for Reapers, was what I took from Green skittles.

[NoUserNameHere]

... A moot point, I know, as Stargazer proves that nothing has changed terribly much in 10,000 years.

[Lord Goose]

Control turns Shepard into a being shown to fall victim to flawed/obtuse reasoning.

Eh. He makes Shepard assume the position of said being.

[DubVee12]

Lord Goose wrote...

Where did you get that the cycle will continue?

That's another sort of "catalyst LIES!" thingy. It says, that Shepard would lose his humanity in machine body and in time will decide what harvest is the answer. Despite that Catalyst himself acknowledges what it is not the answer anymore.

Well if that's how people want to see it, I guess that's there business. The control ending is vague, other than "The Reapers will obey me?" "Yes." My Shep would never continue the cycle with the Reapers under his control. But, if EC says otherwise, I reluctantly pick a different option.

[NoUserNameHere]

Lord Goose wrote...

Control turns Shepard into a being shown to fall victim to flawed/obtuse reasoning.

Eh. He makes Shepard assume the position of said being.

... Having 'lost everything that he/she was' or some such. 

[DubVee12]

NoUserNameHere wrote...


Control turns Shepard into a being shown to fall victim to flawed/obtuse reasoning.

As opposed to believing Shep can kill all the Reapers by shooting a pipe?

[The Night Mammoth]

mass perfection wrote...

Have you heard of the technological singularity?

Indeed, I'm very familar with it. 

Your point?

[Lord Goose]

But, if EC says otherwise, I reluctantly pick a different option.

Well, I would be thinking what they did so only to pander part of fanbase. And in that case I would really hate them, because that is not the way storyteller should act.

Having 'lost everything that he/she was' or some such.

Everything he/she "had". What's a bit different.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

I feel we've been over this a thousand times.

I didn't finish the OP b/c what I did read of it is not fact, but speculation and/or very miniscule.

[NoUserNameHere]

DubVee12 wrote...

NoUserNameHere wrote...


Control turns Shepard into a being shown to fall victim to flawed/obtuse reasoning.

As opposed to believing Shep can kill all the Reapers by shooting a pipe?

Robot-murder brand piping is a regular staple at my local Home Depot. Why, where do you go for your DIY needs?

At no point will I claim that any ending was optimal. I'm just saying Control has a greater chance of ending badly. We see the Reapers die in Red skittles, which is quite fortunate.