314 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamie9]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

I feel we've been over this a thousand times.

I didn't finish the OP b/c what I did read of it is not fact, but speculation and/or very miniscule.

We have. We're waiting for the Extended Cut. It's like when you put the news on and it loops the same stories if you watch it too much.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Jamie9 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

I feel we've been over this a thousand times.

I didn't finish the OP b/c what I did read of it is not fact, but speculation and/or very miniscule.

We have. We're waiting for the Extended Cut. It's like when you put the news on and it loops the same stories if you watch it too much.

I just don't see the point in arguing these things for 10 pages when it solves nothing.  Every thread like this has ppl who think different things and I have never seen one where someone "gives in" or whatever.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

I feel we've been over this a thousand times.

I didn't finish the OP b/c what I did read of it is not fact, but speculation and/or very miniscule.

Great. Another guy who doesn't know what a fact is.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

dreman9999 wrote...

Counter point if non of the races every touch the tech, The wouldn't be in the war in the first place...

Delusional. At some point we'd be flying between star systems much the same way the Reapers had intended, even if we didn't touch the relay system. We did touch the relay system though, and it did not cost us, so your point is moot.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

balance5050 wrote...

The reapers leave all that tech there to control our evolutionary paths throughout the galaxy, it's just another form of control and by giving in to the doctrine of control you give in to thinking like a reaper.

It has come to my attention that the Reapers are suicidal, since their doctrine is apparently to use their technology to kill themselves.

[Taboo]

Eventually, in theory, we'd be able to affect the Universe, pending we reach a level four civilization.

We'd be reaching other galaxies by three.

A Dyson sphere is in type two and the Geth created one.

You interfere by existing.

[Jamie9]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

I just don't see the point in arguing these things for 10 pages when it solves nothing.  Every thread like this has ppl who think different things and I have never seen one where someone "gives in" or whatever.

I don't often "give in" completely. But I do take on other people's opinions and store 'em, up here, in my brain. I win regardless of how the argument turns out. You take in new experiences, new perspectives. Learning is always good. And debates breed learning.

[Lord Goose]

I'm just saying Control has a greater chance of ending badly. We see the Reapers die in Red skittles, which is quite fortunate.

That's subjective.
We clearly see ships leaving, have the same future vision, and the window saying that Reaper threat is over.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

tomcplotts wrote...

But to tie this into the OP, I'd argue the opposite: that the use of Reaper tech might advance the game, but it hinders your mission. It's the use of that tech that seduces your companions and allies into opposing their own destruction. It's the Reaper tech that is the vehicle at most important times for *your* defeat, not theirs. As others have said, you're not controlling them, they are controlling you.

Red. Red. Red. Red. and Red. Only.

Obviously indoctrination is always a threat, but the Reapers will not be beaten by a conservative strategy. There are ways around it too if you're just careful and learn from past mistakes. In the end, the potential reward outweighs the risk - by A LOT.

[Taboo]

With the destruction of the Star child in Destroy, Indoctrination no longer exists.

We have discussed this in other threads.

It's a pile of machine and organic goo now, lying crumpled on the ground.

[Lord Goose]

Yeah. Remains of Sovereign were scattered around for yers.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Taboo-XX wrote...

With the destruction of the Star child in Destroy, Indoctrination no longer exists.

We have discussed this in other threads.

It's a pile of machine and organic goo now, lying crumpled on the ground.

Well that's funny for IT'ers who think that the red path is the only "real" path. What if Destroy is just Starchild's ploy of indoctrinating everyone Shepard brought to Earth, like the Derelict Reaper indoctrinated the Cerberus team, and causes them to resume everything all over again???

I mean, if Synthesis and Control don't really happen as they are shown to us in the cutscenes, why is Destroy treated as such?

(I'm not accusing you of this, just saying).

[Taboo]

I don't know, this is why I'm waiting for the Extended Cut. I look at everything but the crash scene as very, very real.I can only make assessments based upon that logic.

With their master dead, the Reapers have no ability to enslave minds, at least as I see it. It's a pile of machine and organic goo.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

I feel we've been over this a thousand times.

I didn't finish the OP b/c what I did read of it is not fact, but speculation and/or very miniscule.

Great. Another guy who doesn't know what a fact is.

FACT: you're reading comprehension sucks.

[Erield]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

I feel we've been over this a thousand times.

I didn't finish the OP b/c what I did read of it is not fact, but speculation and/or very miniscule.

Great. Another guy who doesn't know what a fact is.

FACT: you're reading comprehension sucks.

ASSUMPTION: The word you are looking for is "your."  You may have deliberately chosen the incorrect word.  It is very possible you wanted to say "You are reading comprehension sucks." 

Edit:  In an effort to be less of a trolling douche, I add the following: You accuse the OP of not knowing what a fact is.  Which of his 10 points are not facts?

Modifié par Erield, 30 mai 2012 - 10:15 .

[Dude_in_the_Room]

Erield wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

I feel we've been over this a thousand times.

I didn't finish the OP b/c what I did read of it is not fact, but speculation and/or very miniscule.

Great. Another guy who doesn't know what a fact is.

FACT: you're reading comprehension sucks.

ASSUMPTION: The word you are looking for is "your."  You may have deliberately chosen the incorrect word.  It is very possible you wanted to say "You are reading comprehension sucks." 

I'm hungry and tired so I'm not thinking.

On the other hand......THIS ISN'T YOUR ****ING CONVERSATION.

Modifié par Dude_in_the_Room, 30 mai 2012 - 10:17 .

[BP20125810]

darkchief10 wrote...

good post actually, too bad the forums are full of confirmation bias, people refuse to listen to evidence that refutes their beliefs, it's just human nature

Spoken like a true fan

[Jamie9]

BP20125810 wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

good post actually, too bad the forums are full of confirmation bias, people refuse to listen to evidence that refutes their beliefs, it's just human nature

Spoken like a true fan

More like "spoken like an open-minded human being".

[Dude_in_the_Room]

BP20125810 wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

good post actually, too bad the forums are full of confirmation bias, people refuse to listen to evidence that refutes their beliefs, it's just human nature

Spoken like a true fan

I just CAPPED at someone for butting in a conversation, but I have to.....

Believing firmly in a decision makes you less of a fan?

[frylock23]

Lord Goose wrote...

TIM controls Shepard (makes her shoot Anderson)

TIM's ability may not be the same what Reapers are using. Be logical about it, TIM was going to control the Reapers. But, do Reapers have control over other Reapers? It doesn't seems so. They also lacking any sort of power to directly influence anybody (or else, they could have use the same trick on Shepard). Even though TIM is indoctrinated, his powers maybe different from Reapers powers.

Also, Shepard's mind doesn't seems to be affected by TIM's power. At very least, Shepard can either convince him to commit suicide, or trick TIM and shoot while he is distracted. Also, TIM's was going to convince Shepard what he is right. He clearly has some admiration for Shepard (he was resisting to put control chip, he didn't wanted Kai Leng to kill Shepard etc.) and wants approval. If he was controlling him, he could just made him believe.

There's also the reality that after Synthesis, there will no longer be any organic or synthetic life; it will all be something else. So, in effect, you will have wiped out everything and everyone you were fighting for. AND, to top it, the Reapers will still fly away.

Synthesis is a good ending in a sense, what it solves both problems.

a) Possibility of synthetics killing all organics. If there are only synthetic-organic hybrids, yes, it is impossible.
Reapers harvesting. It essentially becomes pointless.

But I agree, what this ending requires playing God. And, thus. amoral.

I was being logical about. There was too much at stake to risk that TIM's ability to control (when we know that he's been playing with Reaper tech and has been indoctrinated by them and is controlled by them) is somehow totally different than their's particularly when we also know that if Shepard chooses "wrong" the Reapers lose everything and are destroyed utterly. There are also the long-term implications of subsuming one's self into an AI when one is not designed to be one. We saw what happened with Project Overlord, granted David was not a normal human, but after thousands of years, will Shepard be a normal human? Where will his/her sanity be? What guarantees will anyone have that contact with Reapers minds will not change/corrupt him/her?

It's too chancy, and the galaxy may only ever get one chance to get this one right.

That's why I don't go for it. Maybe the EC can remedy some of my doubts, but right now, I have to be practical. Dead Reapers are far more certain than Reapers who fly away.

As to no organics, are you saying that Synthesis will stop all whatever the engine of life is from creating new organic life from ever arising, ever, anywhere? There will never, ever be any other primordial ooze that will spawn new organic life? However, does that happen because now, that would require that synthesis would also have to change inorganic elements, too, to make it impossible for new organic compounds to form without forming in violation of the new framework. And if that's the case, it opens up a whole new can of impossibility worms making this ending even more impossibly stupid for me to contemplate. Oh and the Reapers still get to fly away.

[Lord Goose]

There was too much at stake to risk that TIM's ability to control (when we know that he's been playing with Reaper tech and has been indoctrinated by them and is controlled by them) is somehow totally different than their's particularly when we also know that if Shepard chooses "wrong" the Reapers lose everything and are destroyed utterly.

Being logical requires being absent of emotions. TIM's ability is not the same as Reaper's ability, regardless of that is at stake. Also, Catalyst says that Shepard will control the Reapers. If you believe him that it is possible to kill all the Reapers, why wouldn't you believe what control is possible?

Also, if Shepard was in the geth consensus before, he will address the problem, and the Legion will respond what it isn't problem for the geth technology.

Where will his/her sanity be? What guarantees will anyone have that contact with Reapers minds will not change/corrupt him/her?

In the same vein, it is possible that Catalyst was correct, and removing the Reapers will create Synthetic singularity and organics would be wiped out.

However, does that happen because now, that would require that synthesis would also have to change inorganic elements, too, to make it impossible for new organic compounds to form without forming in violation of the new framework

Well, that's one of the problems with Mass Effect. And science fiction in general. The universe is SO HUGE that our brains are incapable to truly comprehend it. Shepard and even the catalyst seems to be concerned only with Milky Way Galaxy. So I guess, we should remember that it is just a fictional story and accept some mistakes.

Personally, I was more offended with tiny stars which are sometimes smaller than their planets. What was annoying.

[frylock23]

Lord Goose wrote...

There was too much at stake to risk that TIM's ability to control (when we know that he's been playing with Reaper tech and has been indoctrinated by them and is controlled by them) is somehow totally different than their's particularly when we also know that if Shepard chooses "wrong" the Reapers lose everything and are destroyed utterly.

Being logical requires being absent of emotions. TIM's ability is not the same as Reaper's ability, regardless of that is at stake. Also, Catalyst says that Shepard will control the Reapers. If you believe him that it is possible to kill all the Reapers, why wouldn't you believe what control is possible?

Also, if Shepard was in the geth consensus before, he will address the problem, and the Legion will respond what it isn't problem for the geth technology.

Yes, I am aware that logic is not based on emotion. It's also very simple.

TIM controls Shepard.
Reapers control TIM.
TIM can't control Reapers
Shepard controls Reapers?
How?

You can argue that TIM's control is totally different, but I see no evidence for that. You can also say that teh Catalyst says that we will be able to control the Reapers, but this is the same entity who is our enemy, admits to being our enemy, and is forcing us to pick a solution to a problem that has clearly never happened before, one that he has no proof will happen. That in and of itself is a problem.

There really isn't any reason to assume that any of his solutions lead to anything other than Shepard's death and Reaper victory (i.e. that any of them do anything other than lead to a quick huskification), but since he's playing the choice game, we pick the one that leads to the best certainty of victory and an end to the Reapers. IMO, that ending is Destroy.

[The Night Mammoth]

frylock23 wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

There was too much at stake to risk that TIM's ability to control (when we know that he's been playing with Reaper tech and has been indoctrinated by them and is controlled by them) is somehow totally different than their's particularly when we also know that if Shepard chooses "wrong" the Reapers lose everything and are destroyed utterly.

Being logical requires being absent of emotions. TIM's ability is not the same as Reaper's ability, regardless of that is at stake. Also, Catalyst says that Shepard will control the Reapers. If you believe him that it is possible to kill all the Reapers, why wouldn't you believe what control is possible?

Also, if Shepard was in the geth consensus before, he will address the problem, and the Legion will respond what it isn't problem for the geth technology.

Yes, I am aware that logic is not based on emotion. It's also very simple.

TIM controls Shepard.
Reapers control TIM.
TIM can't control Reapers
Shepard controls Reapers?
How?

Because I shot the Illusive Man. 

[Han Shot First]

Synthesis and Control are betrayals, because in both endings the Reapers survive. In neither ending is there any guarantee that the Reapers will not reap again, other than the assurances of some Star Brat that we've never met before, who incidentally refers to the Reapers as "we."
 
I'm suprised that any Shepard would meet a character that uses pronouns like "we" and "our" when referring to Reapers, and think, "Sounds legit. This chap seems like a trustworthy fellow."

[The Night Mammoth]

Han Shot First wrote...

Synthesis and Control are betrayals, because in both endings the Reapers survive. In neither ending is there any guarantee that the Reapers will not reap again, other than the assurances of some Star Brat that we've never met before, who incidentally refers to the Reapers as "we."
 
I'm suprised that any Shepard would meet a character that uses pronouns like "we" and "our" when referring to Reapers, and think, "Sounds legit. This chap seems like a trustworthy fellow."

I don't trust it.

Thus headcanon, the only way to come up with a conclusion for control, solves all problems.