314 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

It suddenly got real stupid in here so peace.

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You picked control...You already did submit.

If you say so, but bias is forming that opinion, not the facts. 

Also,leaps of faith is 100% dependent on trust.

Sure, but it's not the serpent I'm placing trust in. 

1.What does the vague, open to interprtation meaninf of this  statement"You wil die. You can control us but will lose everything you have."
2. But you pick the choice anyway.

[EricHVela]

I might have been able to agree if we could pinpoint exactly what Control and Synthesis does.

Until then, it's too easy to argue against the "we should use the Reaper tech for our own purposes" without a solid foundation of how we are actually using the tech.

Destroy is more blunt than the other two options. We have a less-vague jist of what happens with it. It requires less head-canon than the other two. (Throw in the bonus of the breath scene and it's quite easily a popular winner -- not necessarily the "right" or "best" choice, but the most popular.)

[The Night Mammoth]

balance5050 wrote...

It suddenly got real stupid in here so peace.

Won't be anymore though.

Get it?

Feel that burn. 


But it's nice to see someone completely incapable of refuting others or defending their own view. 

[dreman9999]

Lord Goose wrote...

it might be because you got blinded by not wanting to do what you gotta do to beat the reapers (sacrifice the Geth - if they are still functioning - and EDI).

I actually wounder. Would you (or any pro-Destroy) choose Destroy if you have to kill humanity to Destroy the Reapers?

I think if Catalyst would really want to persuade us to choose Control or Synthesis he could say what Destroy beam would destroy Earth/Solar system as whole. No one would probably do what.

...*Sigh...Yes.

[llbountyhunter]

Lord Goose wrote...

Grabing on a live wire and letting you body die to control a fleet of machiens who have not real perpose is not pointless?

Saving lifes of your allies is pointless?

Personally, I think most people just do not get the message behind.

1. We're going to Control the Reapers using the Crucible which we don't have any clue as to what it does other than what our mortal enemy tell us.

We're going to Destroy the Reapers using the Crucible which we don't have any clue as to what it does other what our mortal enemy tell us.

2. The Reapers tell us how to use it so they want us to use it.

Unless Catalyst is replaced immediately after he talks about Destroy, The reapers still tell us how to use it so they want us to use it. They tell us to how to use it anyway.

Why would the Reapers even allow Shepard to control them and how could he possibly control them? His mind couldn't comprehend the space Cthulhu.

Why would the Reapers even allow Shepard to destroy them and how could he possibly destroy them? Oh, ancient anti-Reaper device?
Wait a minute, why can't it control them?

your right it makes no sense from a litereal perspective. nice to see were making prgress here.

now if only we could get you to admit some of its symbolic (IT) ......

[dreman9999]

ReggarBlane wrote...

I might have been able to agree if we could pinpoint exactly what Control and Synthesis does.

Until then, it's too easy to argue against the "we should use the Reaper tech for our own purposes" without a solid foundation of how we are actually using the tech.

Destroy is more blunt than the other two options. We have a less-vague jist of what happens with it. It requires less head-canon than the other two. (Throw in the bonus of the breath scene and it's quite easily a popular winner -- not necessarily the "right" or "best" choice, but the most popular.)

This man gets it.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

1.What does the vague, open to interprtation meaninf of this  statement"You wil die. You can control us but will lose everything you have."

Your guess is as good as mine.

I'm not answering it though, you've asked me this maybe eleven times now. 

2. But you pick the choice anyway.

Derp, yes I know. 

It's still not the serpent I'm placing any semblence of trust in.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 30 mai 2012 - 06:42 .

[Vox Draco]

Jere85 wrote...

Good post, nevertheless i disagree. Simply as a feeling, i dont need proof to see if something is wrong or right, Control and Synthesis feels wrong. Simple as that.

Yes, you can toy around with scientific arguments, philosophy or whatever else to justify red, green or blue...

But for me, the entire ending-choice simply boils down to this: Will I trust my own eyes and expereince about the Reapers throughout the last games? Will I stay true to my path of saving the Galaxy once and for all (!important, because control and synthesis leave them alive!) from the Reapers?

Also, I just can see Liara, Kaidan, Garrus, Anderson, Hackett or anyone else close to Shepard, including Legion and EDI, advising Shepard to take green or blue. I fail to see that. And five minutes of dialogue by the catalyst won't change my mind on anything, they rather make me more determined...

And to add to this: The only two persons that ever wanted to use the Reapers were Saren and TIM. I opposed them from beginning to the end, why should a ghostly child lead me astray at the final moment? One post put it clearly: Using the Reaper tech to destroy them is a good thing, though still dangerous, using the tech trying to control them or worse is...risky and...most unwise...after all, they invented indoctrination...

No, I won't let them survive, I won't take that risk...and here is also a visualized version of my entire thoughts on the last three choices, and how I look at them emotionally, more entertaining than just reading, maybe even when you disagree with me.

[jijeebo]

liggy002 wrote...

So, let me get this straight about Control:

1. We're going to Control the Reapers using the Crucible which we don't have any clue as to what it does other than what our mortal enemy tell us.

2. The Reapers tell us how to use it so they want us to use it.

3. Why would the Reapers even allow Shepard to control them and how could he possibly control them? His mind couldn't comprehend the space Cthulhu.

So, to sum up, HELL NO TO CONTROL AND SYNTHESIS

As opposed to shooting a magic tube thats going to kill them all... Despite them being billions of years old and as of yet undefeated.


Yeah they're MUCH more likely to tell Shepard the truth about Destroy eh? DERP.






And great post OP, although I feel your efforts won't change much.

Modifié par jijeebo, 30 mai 2012 - 06:43 .

[dreman9999]

Lord Goose wrote...

Grabing on a live wire and letting you body die to control a fleet of machiens who have not real perpose is not pointless?

Saving lifes of your allies is pointless?

Personally, I think most people just do not get the message behind.

1. We're going to Control the Reapers using the Crucible which we don't have any clue as to what it does other than what our mortal enemy tell us.

We're going to Destroy the Reapers using the Crucible which we don't have any clue as to what it does other what our mortal enemy tell us.

2. The Reapers tell us how to use it so they want us to use it.

Unless Catalyst is replaced immediately after he talks about Destroy, The reapers still tell us how to use it so they want us to use it. They tell us to how to use it anyway.

Why would the Reapers even allow Shepard to control them and how could he possibly control them? His mind couldn't comprehend the space Cthulhu.

Why would the Reapers even allow Shepard to destroy them and how could he possibly destroy them? Oh, ancient anti-Reaper device?
Wait a minute, why can't it control them?

1. You can save them by picking destory as well.
2.Agein, we don't know if he is telling the truth.
3....That he sudden fully understands to use with out even know wht it is...

[Lord Goose]

your right it makes no sense from a litereal perspective. nice to see were making prgress here.

now if only we could get you to admit some of its symbolic (IT) ......

If I go symbolic, I would rather prefer my personal theory what Shepard was indoctrinated all along.... And the player is Reaper who controlling him. Read the Ascension, the parts how Paul Grayson feels being controlled by the Reapers. It's exactly describes gameplay.

[ArcanistLibram]

The problem isn't that Shepard and the rest of the galaxy use Reaper tech.

The problem with Control is that Shepard spends the entire game saying that controlling the Reapers is a terrible option and players are never, ever given the chance to explore it as a viable alternative to destroying the Reaper. The Control ending is just not set up properly.

The problem with Synthesis is that it is flat-out impossible according to the science of Mass Effect and that it is a total violation of personal integrity.

[llbountyhunter]

jijeebo wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

So, let me get this straight about Control:

1. We're going to Control the Reapers using the Crucible which we don't have any clue as to what it does other than what our mortal enemy tell us.

2. The Reapers tell us how to use it so they want us to use it.

3. Why would the Reapers even allow Shepard to control them and how could he possibly control them? His mind couldn't comprehend the space Cthulhu.

So, to sum up, HELL NO TO CONTROL AND SYNTHESIS

As opposed to shooting a magic tube thats going to kill them all... Despite them being billions of years old and as of yet undefeated.


Yeah they're MUCH more likely to tell Shepard the truth about Destroy eh? DERP.






And great post OP, although I feel your efforts won't change much.

thats were IT comes in......

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1.What does the vague, open to interprtation meaninf of this  statement"You wil die. You can control us but will lose everything you have."

Your guess is as good as mine.

I'm not answering it though, you've asked me this maybe eleven times now. 

2. But you pick the choice anyway.

Derp, yes I know. 

It's still not the serpent I'm placing any semblence of trust in.

1. But you not understanding the point of this question. It means you have to trust the starchild on what will happen bsed on this vague statement that will mean any thing. You don't know what it means  and yet you ignore it as a hazard?
2.But you putting your self indanger of being control by it...Just Like TIM.

[llbountyhunter]

Lord Goose wrote...

your right it makes no sense from a litereal perspective. nice to see were making prgress here.

now if only we could get you to admit some of its symbolic (IT) ......

If I go symbolic, I would rather prefer my personal theory what Shepard was indoctrinated all along.... And the player is Reaper who controlling him. Read the Ascension, the parts how Paul Grayson feels being controlled by the Reapers. It's exactly describes gameplay.

I read ascention. but i dont think your idea fits as nicely as IT.... 

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 30 mai 2012 - 06:48 .

[Lord Goose]

1. You can save them by picking destory as well.

Shepard doesn't know what. And I'm not sure what "geth would survive destroy" was approved by Bioware.

2.Agein, we don't know if he is telling the truth.

In that case any choice is bad. Unless you wanna just stay and die from bleeding.

3....That he sudden fully understands to use with out even know wht it is...

Its applied to any solution. Shooting big red tube would somehow activate the Crucible? How, exactly?

[antares_sublight]

Control and Synthesis are choice-by-guilt, simply put.

They're all arbitrary choices that the player must rationalize afterwards because there is nothing really to base the decision on at the moment. Destroy was the goal through the whole game, until there are random costs thrown in at the last moment to force the player to consider two brand new options, one of which (Control) has been stated as being wrong and impossible throughout the series, and the other (Synthesis) has no basis in the series or science fiction and raises endless questions and problems, aside from being brand new.

Unfortunately, BioWare made it such that all 3 are "winning" endings. We all have our opinions, all biased, because the way BioWare made ME3 there are no real facts to back up anything at all, no reasons, no explanations.

[dreman9999]

Lord Goose wrote...

1. You can save them by picking destory as well.

Shepard doesn't know what. And I'm not sure what "geth would survive destroy" was approved by Bioware.

2.Agein, we don't know if he is telling the truth.

In that case any choice is bad. Unless you wanna just stay and die from bleeding.

3....That he sudden fully understands to use with out even know wht it is...

Its applied to any solution. Shooting big red tube would somehow activate the Crucible? How, exactly?

So what? So your saying just submitting to the reapers and giving them they want is a better option?

[dreman9999]

antares_sublight wrote...

Control and Synthesis are choice-by-guilt, simply put.

They're all arbitrary choices that the player must rationalize afterwards because there is nothing really to base the decision on at the moment. Destroy was the goal through the whole game, until there are random costs thrown in at the last moment to force the player to consider two brand new options, one of which (Control) has been stated as being wrong and impossible throughout the series, and the other (Synthesis) has no basis in the series or science fiction and raises endless questions and problems, aside from being brand new.

Unfortunately, BioWare made it such that all 3 are "winning" endings. We all have our opinions, all biased, because the way BioWare made ME3 there are no real facts to back up anything at all, no reasons, no explanations.

That's just the ending. They just made it that way so we can debate it.

[llbountyhunter]

Lord Goose wrote...

2.Agein, we don't know if he is telling the truth.

In that case any choice is bad. Unless you wanna just stay and die from bleeding.

3....That he sudden fully understands to use with out even know wht it is...

Its applied to any solution. Shooting big red tube would somehow activate the Crucible? How, exactly?

1.your right, every choice is bad. but destroy is less bad.

2. a very smbolic was of choosing each thing isnt it?

shooting-destroy
grabing something- control
leaping to unknown-synthesis

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 30 mai 2012 - 06:52 .

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. But you not understanding the point of this question.

Nope, you've asked me it a lot. 

The very fact you think it's open to interpretation kind of undermines any meaning you might have. 

It means you have to trust the starchild on what will happen bsed on this vague statement that will mean any thing.

Nope. 

You don't know what it means  and yet you ignore it as a hazard?

Pretty much. I have no idea what it means, no idea to find out, and it's very open to speculation, so the sentence is frankly irrelevant. 

2.But you putting your self indanger of being control by it...Just Like TIM.

Maybe, but that's complete speculation. 

[Lord Goose]

I read ascention. but I dont think it fits as nicely as IT....

Why not?
Paul cannot control his body. The player chooses all significant activities of Shepard.
Reapers control Pauls emotion. Player could do the same thing to Shepard.
Reapers can decide that Paul would say. Player can do the same thing.
Reapers can acces into Paul's memory. Player can read the codex.
Reapers made Grayson into killing machine, Under Player's command Shepard can kill hundreds of enemy troops without even breaking a sweat.
Also, first game stars from "restoration of the data''. If player is the Reaper, he could have hacked the system to delete information in the first place.

[Lord Goose]

They're all arbitrary choices that the player must rationalize afterwards because there is nothing really to base the decision on at the moment.

Allow me to disagree. I actually choose Control, because I was playing paragon and got used to sacrifice myself to save someone else.
The goal was to PROTECT THE GALAXY. If could be protected with less sacrifices, I thought, why shouldn't it be done?
So, no, your theory isn't applicable to reality. At least in my case.

1.your right, every choice is bad. but destroy is less bad.

Why so? Because I choose to be real backstabber and kill those who were on my side?

[llbountyhunter]

Lord Goose wrote...

I read ascention. but I dont think it fits as nicely as IT....

Why not?
Paul cannot control his body. The player chooses all significant activities of Shepard.
Reapers control Pauls emotion. Player could do the same thing to Shepard.
Reapers can decide that Paul would say. Player can do the same thing.
Reapers can acces into Paul's memory. Player can read the codex.
Reapers made Grayson into killing machine, Under Player's command Shepard can kill hundreds of enemy troops without even breaking a sweat.
Also, first game stars from "restoration of the data''. If player is the Reaper, he could have hacked the system to delete information in the first place.

well for one shepard hasent been injected with reaper nanites and trasformed into a half glowing husk.

and bioware said we would be seeing thinks from shepards point of view... so your not meant to be "controling shepard" you ARE shepard.