154 réponses à ce sujet

[tjc2]

crimzontearz wrote...

tjc2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...tjc2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...uh....michael came kinda explained thatSorry if I copied what someone else said; I honeslty just read the 'Bioware' posts.

no...I mean you said you wanted an Inception ending ..Michael Cane explained that ending

Oh really, I actually prefer when I get to make up the ending; I guess writers are just narcissitic that way :)Ill have to look up the 'Cane' explanation.

His explanation is that the end is not a dream because his character never features in dream scenes thus the ending is not a dream

I posted this above in an *edit,* but for posterity: That may be the intended ending, but by the nature of 'film' the audience has free licence to interpret whatever they want from the ending; remember that stories are intended to be alive; that is to say if you read The Great Gatsby today it should affect you in a different way than it did readers in the 1920s.

[crimzontearz]

tjc2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...tjc2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...tjc2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...uh....michael came kinda explained thatSorry if I copied what someone else said; I honeslty just read the 'Bioware' posts. no...I mean you said you wanted an Inception ending ..Michael Cane explained that ending

Oh really, I actually prefer when I get to make up the ending; I guess writers are just narcissitic that way :)Ill have to look up the 'Cane' explanation.

His explanation is that the end is not a dream because his character never features in dream scenes thus the ending is not a dream

I posted this above in an *edit,* but for posterity: That may be the intended ending, but by the nature of 'film' the audience has free licence to interpret whatever they want from the ending; remember that stories are intended to be alive; that is to say if you read[/u] [u]The Great Gatsby today it should affect you in a different way than it did readers in the 1920s.

and that is why the director of the movie said that people keep asking him to tell them exactly what happens and he laughs at the thought that they really think he would answer

[tjc2]

crimzontearz wrote...

tjc2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...tjc2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...tjc2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...uh....michael came kinda explained thatSorry if I copied what someone else said; I honeslty just read the 'Bioware' posts. no...I mean you said you wanted an Inception ending ..Michael Cane explained that ending

Oh really, I actually prefer when I get to make up the ending; I guess writers are just narcissitic that way :)Ill have to look up the 'Cane' explanation.

His explanation is that the end is not a dream because his character never features in dream scenes thus the ending is not a dream

I posted this above in an *edit,* but for posterity: That may be the intended ending, but by the nature of 'film' the audience has free licence to interpret whatever they want from the ending; remember that stories are intended to be alive; that is to say if you read[/u] [u]The Great Gatsby today it should affect you in a different way than it did readers in the 1920s.

and that is why the director of the movie said that people keep asking him to tell them exactly what happens and he laughs at the thought that they really think he would answer

Most Americans can't even speak english; what do you expect?

Edit: By the way; I am American; so me being critical of my own people is like black people making fun of black people; it isn't nice, but it isn't prejudice.

Modifié par tjc2, 01 juin 2012 - 12:24 .

[crimzontearz]

I am angered by endings like that....am I to be considered stupid because his choice does not suit my tastes?

[tjc2]

crimzontearz wrote...

I am angered by endings like that....am I to be considered stupid because his choice does not suit my tastes?

No, you just wasted your money if you didn't enjoy the film; on the other hand, if you liked 95% of the film and didn't like the ending...

Endings, like ME3, are in all honesty a refelection of the entire product; if 95% of ME3 had been great nobody would have complained to this degree...

Edit: Think of Shutter Island, I thought I liked the film; after I saw the ending I realized that not only did I hate the ending, but the rest of the film was subpar for Martin Scorsese

2nd Edit: Endings are a reflection; you finish consuming a product, media, and then one decides the quality of the experience.

Modifié par tjc2, 01 juin 2012 - 12:31 .

[crimzontearz]

you cannot compare it to ME ....player agency and emotional investment as well are potential replayability are not even remotely comparable

[tjc2]

crimzontearz wrote...

you cannot compare it to ME ....player agency and emotional investment as well are potential replayability are not even remotely comparable

I agree with you; video games actually require significantly less writing talent because of all the computer code that is also a part of the product; the ending of a game being as bad as ME3 is worse than a movie like Inception or Shutter Island.

Edit: In movie terms video game writers are even less significant than screenwriters; though that does not mean that poor writing will not show through in the final product as it did with ME3.

Modifié par tjc2, 01 juin 2012 - 12:35 .

[bahamutomega]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The problem I have with a situation like the Suicide Mission is that the ending is effectively a game score.  Especially given how easy it can be to achieve, not achieving a nearly flawless playthrough more says "You didn't win as well as you could have if only you had played better."

I prefer endings that are qualitatively similar.  That is, an ending where it's not as obvious which one is the "more ideal result."

uh... sorry if this seems nitpicky but...

isn't the EMS "effectively a game score"?

i mean...  seriously...  i bust my hump to save both the geth and quarian people and in the end, i get a cutscene as Joker calls out the name of each fleet that consists of a quarian captain sitting in a chair and a geth sitting at a console.

with the suicide mission, if you make the "wrong" choices for the hacker or biotic specialist or the fireteam leaders, characters die.  that's a choice.  it doesn't matter if they are loyal or not - if i pick Miranda to provide the biotic barrier, i lose one of my two squad members, it doesn't matter if Miranda is loyal or not.  there is no "score" there - there are choices with consequences.

there is little consequence to our choices in Mass Effect 3 - regardless of my almost 10k assets (now) i know what will happen.  it doesn't matter if i have krogan support or not.  it doesn't matter if i killed Legion and let the quarians die.

in addition to this lack of consequence, there is the lack of emotion in the end.  i loved Mordin's, Thane's and Legion's death scenes - they were so touching that i teared up.

i was expecting Shepard to die - i was expecting to sit there during the end sequence bawling like a baby, saddened that this character (Shepard) that i have grown to love over the last year is dead, but victorious with the knowledge that in her sacrifice, my squad, the other characters i have grown to love, lived.  satisfied with the knowledge that my choices to unify the galaxy did not go to waste.

a "happy" ending with Shepard's survival will diminish that knowledge.  it will not make the dark endings darker - it will only tell me "work harder, idiot - you did something wrong."

win or lose, Shepard is NOT walking away from this ordeal "normal" - normal for Shepard is stopping rogue Spectres, stopping a 50,000 year old race of indoctrinated slaves, stopping a race of million or billion year old sentient machines from ruining the galaxy.  "normal" does not apply to anything that follows the events of Mass Effect 3.

[tjc2]

To: bahamutomega: I totally agree with you about 'EMS,' if that is what they were talking about when they said 'player choice' I laugh even harder at how horrible the ending ended up.

[crimzontearz]

tjc2 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...you cannot compare it to ME ....player agency and emotional investment as well are potential replayability are not even remotely comparable

I agree with you; video games actually require significantly less writing talent because of all the computer code that is also a part of the product; the ending of a game being as bad as ME3 is worse than a movie like Inception or Shutter Island. Edit: In movie terms video game writers are even less significant than screenwriters; though that does not mean that poor writing will not show through in the final product as it did with ME3.

I am sorry man versus food was on and now I want to serve the entire bioware writing staff minus Mac and Casey deep fried twinkies

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

crimzontearz wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...Look, we worked hard. We did all the missions in the game. We did all the side quests. We found all the resources. We completed the game. Then we get the message "Work diligently with integrity. You'll always get your reward." -- right -- And that's the elevator to WTF?You know I didn't play a game for a week afterward? The ending sucked my soul out. Now of course I'm numb to it. I just realize I hate the ending. It's decent story, but the ending sucks. You go up the elevator and are greeted by the worst mass murderer in history. Genocide in the quintillions, and it justifies it with this order and chaos bull****. The thing and its minions need to be eliminated. Dead. Die. Destroyed. Ended. Period. But, the Crucible changed it. It made it realize that its "(final) solution" no longer worked. I've gone over the endings already and what they mean. And with the relays dead and gone, FTL travel? That's going to be a joke. No one is getting home. No one. It will take too long. Ships break down. So the ending is dark. It is nihilistic. We needed a happy ending too. An ending where we have hope. None of the endings have any hope. The two where you surrender to Starbrat you've given up hope. Destroy you have no hope, but at least the ****er and its minions are gone. What happened to hope? Is having hope for the future a bad thing these days? Have these apocalyptic people gotten into our culture's collective heads so much that people have completely lost it? I don't know. If that's happened it can become a self-fulfilling prophesy. So I don't think it would have been so bad to have had a way of having a happy ending. Shepard gasping for a breath of air doesn't cut it. That is not enough. "Use your imagination to fill in the blanks" is just pure laziness or writerspeak for "we ran out of time and we're not going to fix it. Artistic integrity!!!!!"

ever played Vampire: the masquerade - redemption?

Like so long ago I forgot about it. I also played the sequel. Both had one ending that was kinda fun.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 01 juin 2012 - 12:45 .

[crimzontearz]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...Look, we worked hard. We did all the missions in the game. We did all the side quests. We found all the resources. We completed the game. Then we get the message "Work diligently with integrity. You'll always get your reward." -- right -- And that's the elevator to WTF?You know I didn't play a game for a week afterward? The ending sucked my soul out. Now of course I'm numb to it. I just realize I hate the ending. It's decent story, but the ending sucks. You go up the elevator and are greeted by the worst mass murderer in history. Genocide in the quintillions, and it justifies it with this order and chaos bull****. The thing and its minions need to be eliminated. Dead. Die. Destroyed. Ended. Period. But, the Crucible changed it. It made it realize that its "(final) solution" no longer worked. I've gone over the endings already and what they mean. And with the relays dead and gone, FTL travel? That's going to be a joke. No one is getting home. No one. It will take too long. Ships break down. So the ending is dark. It is nihilistic. We needed a happy ending too. An ending where we have hope. None of the endings have any hope. The two where you surrender to Starbrat you've given up hope. Destroy you have no hope, but at least the ****er and its minions are gone. What happened to hope? Is having hope for the future a bad thing these days? Have these apocalyptic people gotten into our culture's collective heads so much that people have completely lost it? I don't know. If that's happened it can become a self-fulfilling prophesy. So I don't think it would have been so bad to have had a way of having a happy ending. Shepard gasping for a breath of air doesn't cut it. That is not enough. "Use your imagination to fill in the blanks" is just pure laziness or writerspeak for "we ran out of time and we're not going to fix it. Artistic integrity!!!!!" ever played Vampire: the masquerade - redemption?

Like so long ago I forgot about it.

three endings....even a happy ever after one....no imagination needed

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I just figure after all the **** Shepard has been through that after this war, even with a happy ending, Shepard is going to retire. I know I would. I had it all planned out. Cashing in that retirement plan. Building that bunker for Liara to do that Information Broker stuff, and raise those blue babies -- bunker has to be secure (PTSD and paranoia after all that). Go fishing and always have a Talon at her side, because you never know.

Shepard and Liara deserve a happy ending. So does Tali, Kaiden, Garrus, Chakwas, hell, everyone.

And one more thing. Having the happy ending in there, gives replay value to the game. Sorry, but that's just the fact. I may be old fashioned, well I am. I'm not young. I'm one of the oldest here. I'm not going to want to sit through and play a story that when it ends is going to leave me in a wrist slitting mood more than once.

There are two things that are keeping ME3 in the library: the promise of the EC and the Multiplayer. That's it, other than it's the final chapter of the Shepard trilogy. I can always do "quit to dashboard" after killing the last reaper at this point.

If there was a tool kit out that like Bethesda does with TES, I'd completely rewrite the ending.

[crimzontearz]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...I just figure after all the **** Shepard has been through that after this war, even with a happy ending, Shepard is going to retire. I know I would. I had it all planned out. Cashing in that retirement plan. Building that bunker for Liara to do that Information Broker stuff, and raise those blue babies -- bunker has to be secure (PTSD and paranoia after all that). Go fishing and always have a Talon at her side, because you never know. Shepard and Liara deserve a happy ending. So does Tali, Kaiden, Garrus, Chakwas, hell, everyone. And one more thing. Having the happy ending in there, gives replay value to the game. Sorry, but that's just the fact. I may be old fashioned, well I am. I'm not young. I'm one of the oldest here. I'm not going to want to sit through and play a story that when it ends is going to leave me in a wrist slitting mood more than once. There are two things that are keeping ME3 in the library: the promise of the EC and the Multiplayer. That's it, other than it's the final chapter of the Shepard trilogy. I can always do "quit to dashboard" after killing the last reaper at this point. If there was a tool kit out that like Bethesda does with TES, I'd completely rewrite the ending.

but I agree with you

[Kreidian]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If there's one thing game development has taught me is that no matter how amazing you make something, someone is always going to hate it. By the same token, no matter how crappy you make something, someone is always going to love it. Just saying that there are people out there that love the ending doesn't justify it in any way.

No, but it doesn't mean we should outright dismiss what the smaller group is saying. I think it's also hubris to completely overlook the issues that people may have had with a game like Baldur's Gate 2 even if the majority really like it.

Then this should also apply to the many people who have a major issue with the current ending and want something different.
Right now BioWare appears to be dismissing and completely overlooking a lot of the issues people have with ME3 by claiming things like "artistic integrity" and "entitled whiners".

I never claimed that you should dismiss the issues brought up by these people, but rather that you can't use the claims of some minority to justify something that alot of people have a problem with.

In the end you've taken the stance of superiority over your fans and supporters. You're sending the message to the fans that happy endings are just so beneath you, and that your amazing artistic integrity is more important then making games enjoyable. It's pure hubris.

I think this is just an interpretation and it's a bit unfair to make such a sweeping statement based upon the quality of the endings.

If this was actually the case, wouldn't story arcs like Tuchanka and Rannoch have played out very differently than what is provided? Or are those moments that we weren't displaying any sort of artistic integrity and just giving the fans what they wanted (i.e. those story arcs aren't actually what anyone on the team wanted?)

Perhaps but that doesn't change the fact that this is the impression that many fans have felt due to the actions and responses BioWare has had to people who didn't like the current ending. As I said, most people love the majority of the game, but have a huge problem with the ending.

It is precisely because Tuchanka and Rannoch are so well done that people feel so frustrated that the end of the game could not have had the same level of quality. And regardless of the intention, the message people are hearing from you is that our concerns are invalid.

Modifié par Kreidian, 01 juin 2012 - 01:48 .

[tjc2]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I just figure after all the **** Shepard has been through that after this war, even with a happy ending, Shepard is going to retire. I know I would. I had it all planned out. Cashing in that retirement plan. Building that bunker for Liara to do that Information Broker stuff, and raise those blue babies -- bunker has to be secure (PTSD and paranoia after all that). Go fishing and always have a Talon at her side, because you never know.

Shepard and Liara deserve a happy ending. So does Tali, Kaiden, Garrus, Chakwas, hell, everyone.

And one more thing. Having the happy ending in there, gives replay value to the game. Sorry, but that's just the fact. I may be old fashioned, well I am. I'm not young. I'm one of the oldest here. I'm not going to want to sit through and play a story that when it ends is going to leave me in a wrist slitting mood more than once.

There are two things that are keeping ME3 in the library: the promise of the EC and the Multiplayer. That's it, other than it's the final chapter of the Shepard trilogy. I can always do "quit to dashboard" after killing the last reaper at this point.

If there was a tool kit out that like Bethesda does with TES, I'd completely rewrite the ending.

What this post clearly shows is that there should have been four distinct endings: One ending would feature total happiness; one ending, the grey ending, would leave you pondering; the bad ending would be split into two pieces; one where you were lazy and the reapers win; one where you side with the Reapers, based on their logical reason for existing, and wipe out 'organic/synthetic' life in the galaxy.

[malakim2099]

crimzontearz wrote...

TheOptimist wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...seriouslyWTF is wrong with wanting the option for a happy ending?let me repeat myself...THE OPTION for a happy ending.Also, Chemiclord, I happen to be perfectly ok with golden endings and I find grimdark and bittersweet-hold-the-sweet endings to be a forced "we are mature and different" cliche of more recent times...BUT.. you are right. If you have to go with the "hero sacrifice" ending and blah blah blah be upfront about it. Like with Halo Reach, any fan knew that Reach=FUBAR...

Indeed.  I shudder to think that in the last 10 years or so I've played only 5 RPGs with an honest to goodness happy ending if you do everything right: Suikoden V, Kingdom Hearts 2, Jade Empire, Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and FE: Radiant Dawn (I'd include ME1 and 2, but we know how that eventually turned out).  Maybe there are more and I've simply missed them, but those are the ones I know of. Now, in all five games, you have to work your butt off to get the best ending, but the possibility existed, and I loved it.To any burgeoning game programmers/writers out there, I PROMISE a market exists for games where the protagonists can actually win.  I don't need every game series catered to me.  I get that there's a market for grimdark and bittersweet.  But seriously, can we get a AAA RPG game title with an ultimate ending that doesn't try to invoke wrist-slitting depression?

you missed one of the best ones

VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE - REDEMPTION

it had an ABC ending BUT the results were very varied and it goddamn had a happy ending which is saying something seen as the pnp game it is based on is a personal horror game

Okay, if the ####ing WORLD OF DARKNESS can have a happy ending, why the hell can't ME3? 

[George-Kinsill]

bahamutomega wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The problem I have with a situation like the Suicide Mission is that the ending is effectively a game score.  Especially given how easy it can be to achieve, not achieving a nearly flawless playthrough more says "You didn't win as well as you could have if only you had played better."

I prefer endings that are qualitatively similar.  That is, an ending where it's not as obvious which one is the "more ideal result."

i was expecting Shepard to die - i was expecting to sit there during the end sequence bawling like a baby, saddened that this character (Shepard) that i have grown to love over the last year is dead, but victorious with the knowledge that in her sacrifice, my squad, the other characters i have grown to love, lived.  satisfied with the knowledge that my choices to unify the galaxy did not go to waste.

a "happy" ending with Shepard's survival will diminish that knowledge.  it will not make the dark endings darker - it will only tell me "work harder, idiot - you did something wrong."

win or lose, Shepard is NOT walking away from this ordeal "normal" - normal for Shepard is stopping rogue Spectres, stopping a 50,000 year old race of indoctrinated slaves, stopping a race of million or billion year old sentient machines from ruining the galaxy.  "normal" does not apply to anything that follows the events of Mass Effect 3.

I also expected a distinct possibility that Shepard would die no matter what. While this would be irritiating, I could live with it and be happy if it were done well. My Shepard walking into an explosion is not a heroic death; that is a stupid death. If BioWare would have portrayed his death in a logical manner, I could have been happy.

And yes, Shepard is not walkin gaway normal and unscarred; the so called "Happy Ending" could have had him as messed up as that Asari with PTSD on the Citadel hospital. They could have had him paranoid as hell like the main character at the end of te movie "Munich." In any case, they could have had Shepard walk away messed up. Would have been realistic and fulfill player agency.

As for dark endings forcing people to work harder, yes there is undeniably an element of that. However, for that first playthrough it will be real and it will hurt. The good thing about a "Happy" ending is that it not only makes darker enddings darker, it also adds replay value. This is importat for a game like Mass Effect. LEt's face it, the people wh replay Mass Effect a dozen times don't replay it to get the same ending; they do it to experiance many unique stories. The current endings make us more angry than a message of "Work harder" as they tell us to "Buy DLC," while denying meaning to our actions. I honestly can't bring myself to replay ME3, which is just sad since I thought I would spend the rest of the summer replaying ME3 with all my different saves from the previous games. 

[Dezerte]

So the majority of the "anti-enders" just wants an happy ending? I didn't realize that.

I'm "anti" for a completely different reason. The ending lacks narrative coherence and basically breaks the lore of the ME series. That's why I'm not happy with the ending. Not to mention BioWare's unwillingness to admit that they made a mistake...

[vallore]

Unlike the OP, I don’t think that a happy ending would darken the others were Shepard dies but, neither do I think that it would cheapen the current endings, as a few seem to fear. What I think it could make is the other endings more meaningful.

 I have played DA:Origins. In that game, you can choose to make the Ultimate sacrifice, or have your other warden companion do it, or have the Dark Ritual done. No choice is superior to the other, all can be satisfying. The fact that your character can live doesn’t make the ending where she can die less meaningful,(or darker, imo). However, in ME3 Shepard is simply fated to die, “because” ... there is no good reason presented for it.

In my view, what does cheapen the current endings is the lack of options, of choice, that makes her sacrifice irrelevant. Unlike Origins, in ME3 the player has no role in the fate of her own character; the player is merely a witness. Shepard dies simply because the story “demanded it,” not because I, the player, made a number of choices that lead to sacrifice, either intentionally or unintentionally. The result wasn’t an emotionally charged moment, but simply frustration:

I was playing a game, Shepard was my character, but during the moment that counted the most, I’m forced to release control and just watch what feels like a pointless death…

So; As far as I’m concerned, an ending where Shepard walks as a result of the player’s choices, doesn’t “cheapens” the other endings were she dies. On the contrary, it could make them meaningful. Something the ending of ME3 desperately needs.

[EnvyTB075]

If the paragon/renegade system wasn't ditched in Cavour of linearity, having a range of options would have worked. For example if you truly believe that controlling the reapers is best, that would go hand in hand with a selfish Shepard, and that would be your good ending. You got what you wanted, absolute power. A bad ending in that instance would include not actually controlling the reapers but being subdued by them.

There are plenty of ways to spin a happy/grim dark/total failure ending which doesn't always equate to a Disney ending. Unfortunately the game doesn't allow it, they wrote themselves into a corner and hence why some would feel their ending undervalued in the face of a "perfect" ending.

And honestly the endings are already cheap attempts at tugging our heart strings, so it's not as though you can cheapen it further.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 01 juin 2012 - 09:07 .

[a9fc]

1. No ending is going to truly be happy. Billions died, earth, Palaven, Thessia and a crap ton of other worlds are ruined. Friends are dead and much of what was lost will never be replaced. It will only be happy in the sense the Reapers are dead and you minimized what losses where you could.

Not only billions.

TRILLIONS died, in EACH cycle.

And there have been THOUSANDS of CYCLES.

[Neizd]

I agree with OP. Option for a happy ending would be good and wouldn't destroy the "dark ending" the problem is, that ME3 has quite narrow spectrum of possible endings. The problem with the game start with the kid. From the start of the game I was thinking:

Why does my Shepard thinks so much about one kid and dreams about him?

For a sole survivor and a person who lost a lot of friends during his life why does the Shepard (not MY Shepard) is doing something out of his character? I get that earth was hit its okay for him and every human feel situation, but why the stupid kid?
The space kid does not fit in the universe and is something that a 9 years old child came up in his fanfic... I could take the "fetch type quests", it was hurting my eyes and ears but I could still play and enjoy the game. Tali face was dissapointing (lazy stock photo job) if you look at Allers who got full 3D model...but it's still ok.
The kid? He/It should never existed in the game. Kids are bad actors and everytime some stupid kid shows up in the game rated M it's dissapointing. The same thing happened with the first Witcher game...

[RocketManSR2]

I would have felt a lot more to see a family put onto an evac shuttle and having that shuttle destroyed by a Reaper. Something sudden, not "here is child, you must now be sad for him."

[crimzontearz]

malakim2099 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...TheOptimist wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...seriouslyWTF is wrong with wanting the option for a happy ending?let me repeat myself...THE OPTION for a happy ending.Also, Chemiclord, I happen to be perfectly ok with golden endings and I find grimdark and bittersweet-hold-the-sweet endings to be a forced "we are mature and different" cliche of more recent times...BUT.. you are right. If you have to go with the "hero sacrifice" ending and blah blah blah be upfront about it. Like with Halo Reach, any fan knew that Reach=FUBAR... Indeed.  I shudder to think that in the last 10 years or so I've played only 5 RPGs with an honest to goodness happy ending if you do everything right: Suikoden V, Kingdom Hearts 2, Jade Empire, Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance and FE: Radiant Dawn (I'd include ME1 and 2, but we know how that eventually turned out).  Maybe there are more and I've simply missed them, but those are the ones I know of. Now, in all five games, you have to work your butt off to get the best ending, but the possibility existed, and I loved it.To any burgeoning game programmers/writers out there, I PROMISE a market exists for games where the protagonists can actually win.  I don't need every game series catered to me.  I get that there's a market for grimdark and bittersweet.  But seriously, can we get a AAA RPG game title with an ultimate ending that doesn't try to invoke wrist-slitting depression?

you missed one of the best onesVAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE - REDEMPTIONit had an ABC ending BUT the results were very varied and it goddamn had a happy ending which is saying something seen as the pnp game it is based on is a personal horror game

Okay, if the ####ing WORLD OF DARKNESS can have a happy ending, why the hell can't ME3? 

not just ONE Happy Ending but two, a Paragon Happy Ending and a Renegade Happy Ending.....in Mass Effect terms