143 réponses à ce sujet

[RequiemPrime]

SinerAthin wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Some weapons are broken, Reagar Carbine for example.

Its ammo expends way too quickly and it's got a TERRIBLE range.

The Claymore can engage most ranges quite well, but that Shotgun could never dream of touching anything outside the short range.


I played Gold with it and wasn't too impressed.(I used equipment on it as well)
It's only good if the enemy comes close.

Exactly.  And there is the balance for it right there.  

[zeal.assassin]

I care more about a weapon being underpowered than overpowered.
Heck if a weapon overpower then it can help complete the mission faster.

[astheoceansblue]

There are legitimate concerns about team synergy and pacing of games when certain things are OP in a co-op environment, and while not always gamebreaking it can disrupt the flow of things.

Depends how important you think these things are, I guess.

[Drawrof]

Picture this. Valiant/BW infiltrator. Plays with a team of friends. To succeed at gold, players 2-4, much stick to a plan to ensure that the bw infiltrator champion can lead them to victory. Giant Cerberus. Lackey 1 - stasis, lackey 2 watches right flank to ensure no rear spawn. Lackey 3 I guess water boy. Long LOS sets hero up for multiple head shots.

Now a gun like the krysae comes out and lackies realize they can out score their hero. Pretty soon thier disobeying orders and now just playing u/u/gold for fun. The poor hero has to find another group of naive players to set him up and complain that the krysae needs to be nerfed.

[robarcool]

Stardusk wrote...

Some weapons are broken, Reagar Carbine for example.

No offense dude, but you are a very skilled player and while many weapons will appear broken to you and Palladin and players of your level, they may not be for the general population.
But yes, I also think that Kyrse sniper is kind of broken.
[Runs away]

Modifié par robarcool, 30 mai 2012 - 07:43 .

[Optimus J]

InTheZone wrote...
 "This is overpowered"
"That's overpowered"
"OMG, GAME TOO EASY"
Then use the Shruiken and call it a day. Remember the Falcon? It got nerfed to hell before the rest of the community could enjoy it. Sheesh. It's like the only thing this community does successfully is **** and moan.

Sorry if I just parachuted here, but who is the people and what's overpowered that bothers them?
This thread is cryptic.

[robarcool]

Tyeme Downs wrote...

If they scream about ______ being overpowered, it gets nerfed pretty fast. BW rewards the complaint.
If they scream about _______ being underpowered/useless, nothing happens. No reward/response.
If they scream about _______ game mechanic being broken, nothing happens. No reward/response.

There are lists about broken game mechanics that never get fixed (from ULM's to ammo boxes). The only safe assumption is that BW developers are children who can only break things.

[Zeroth Angel]

Apl_J wrote...

Falcon was dumb powerful.

High AoE DPS with a 100% Stagger and a decent weight? How on earth was that balanced?

And now it's barely usable.

[PwrdOff]

I don't see how it makes any difference whether people want weapons buffed or nerfed. Buffing something implicitly nerfs everything else relative to it, and vice versa. If a weapon is severely over- or underpowered, it's easier just to change it than everything else. This game would be boring if we didn't have variety, and you can't have that without balance.

[molecularman]

Why do you complain about somebody complaining? Not all of us don't give a crap about balance like you

[Kataigida]

Solution: Stop nerfing weapons/powers, and start buffing weapons/powers. If necessary, once the weapons/powers are buffed, start buffing enemies again (like they did a back when the game was 'new'). Make the ****ty weapons match up (or at least come closer to) the BW and GPS and the new guns, and there will be less ****ing.

[Cyonan]

I want the game to be balanced. This requires some things be nerfed, and some things be buffed.

Nobody likes having their setup nerfed, but doing it is sometimes just infinitely better to achieve balance with.

Wimbini wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Falcon was dumb powerful.

High AoE DPS with a 100% Stagger and a decent weight? How on earth was that balanced?

And now it's barely usable.

The Falcon is one of the best ARs right now, even with the nerfs it's gotten.

[Apl_Juice]

Wimbini wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Falcon was dumb powerful.

High AoE DPS with a 100% Stagger and a decent weight? How on earth was that balanced?

And now it's barely usable.

Just because it isn't a murder machine doesn't mean its not useable. Its probably the best support weapon in the game and one of the few ARs worth a damn.

Saber loses to Paladin, Rev loses to Tempest. The only other decent AR is the Harrier.

[DarthSliver]

I dont care if i get a better score than someone else, the score means jack when it comes to leveling up and getting credits. Yeah id see a point about buffing and nerfing if your exp and credits were determine by your score like Black Ops and MW3 but the fact is it aint. Everyone gets the same Exp and Credits everytime, if you wanna be on top than go play a COD game, ME3 MP isnt for you because ME3 MP is about getting through the waves not scoring the best. If anything I think 10 waves in one round is too short, i think it should be until we cant go on anymore.

Modifié par DarthSliver, 30 mai 2012 - 08:00 .

[Ogrinash]

Nothing is still overpowered on Gold in that there'll always be death a second away if you slip up.

They're morons.

[Apl_Juice]

Ogrinash wrote...

Nothing is still overpowered on Gold in that there'll always be death a second away if you slip up.

They're morons.

That's just a false statement, nevermind the fact that that's not how balancing works at all.

Modifié par Apl_J, 30 mai 2012 - 08:03 .

[paincanbefun]

Apl_J wrote...

Uh, no. Most of the people who consistently argue for nerfs and buffs use hard data in their arguements for why something needs a buff/nerf. Contrary to popular belief, its not cause "we're jealous"; we'd rather see a game where all weapons can perform fairly.

1. this is most likely false.  your "hard data" is used to make subjective interperetations.  if you could produce an equation that determined a precise relationship between weight/dam/rof/rarity values then i agree, you could place data within an objective context, and say, for instance, that the damage per shot of the carnifex should be 10% lower.  to my knowledge no such hard context exists, so while you know what the damage per shot of all the guns is- your hard data- as far as interpereting it goes, all you can say is that it "feels like those numbers should fall in a different range"  which is totally subjective.  "it *just seems* like a gun with (hard data) weight should have (hard data) damage" is not an objective analysis, so the strength of each datum is irrelevant.

2. even if you could plot a precise relationship between these many variables showing you *exactly* where a given gun's values should fall (and if you can, i take back my first statement, but i've never seen or heard about this), it's still missing the point- which is to have fun.  bioware nerfing a gun because it makes it too easy for me to get their credits makes sense.  you claiming that my "op" gun actually causes you to have less fun in a way that you can't problem solve on your end is silly.  don't like krogans?  don't play with them.  don't like the carnifex?  don't use it.

the game being "fair" means that all players have access to the same equipment.  it does not mean that the measureable data for all equipment conforms to your (or anyone's) subjective expectations.  it is fortunate in this case that bioware has their own motivations for their tweaks and that "hard data" pro-nerf clammor (and my criticism of it, and most of our other opinions) is safely irrelevant.

[neteng101]

There's a difference between balance and sameness... if every weapon and character was made the same effectiveness, then you'd essentially have BORING. I've played rock, paper, scissors type games in the past, and they ultimately end up becoming a lot more boring and tedious, you just have to use the exact counter each time.

So please stop it with balance to the point of boringness... and the Falcon? I have no idea what people saw in it previously, but I can't find any use for it right now. And I wasn't around for the pre-nerf Falcon.

Its been said enough - if you get that this is a co-op MP game, then stop crying about not always having the top score. Be a team player. And if you think some build/weapon is OPed, there's nothing stopping you from using it either.

Stop ruining the game for everyone else, you're just being selfish!

[DarthSliver]

Apl_J wrote...

Wimbini wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Falcon was dumb powerful.

High AoE DPS with a 100% Stagger and a decent weight? How on earth was that balanced?

And now it's barely usable.

Just because it isn't a murder machine doesn't mean its not useable. Its probably the best support weapon in the game and one of the few ARs worth a damn.

Saber loses to Paladin, Rev loses to Tempest. The only other decent AR is the Harrier.

By your logic i should be complaining about the Asari Adept and her Stasis bubble, I was able to do well for 2 waves or so on gold after my team went down all because of Stasis of course that was on Cerberus during the demo days. Still havent unlocked that Asari since the game has been released but i am sure she is still the same and i could do that all over again once i have her again.

[Ogrinash]

I've played a lot of Gold games, and I've seen numerous Builds and Weapons that are deemed "the best" and "overpowered" fall just as quickly as anything else. They may give you a better chance of reaching the end, but you're still a single burst from a Geth Trooper or Cannibal away from death.

(Using up the whole team's Consumables to reach said end isn't what I'd call a successful mission.)

[DarthSliver]

neteng101 wrote...

There's a difference between balance and sameness... if every weapon and character was made the same effectiveness, then you'd essentially have BORING. I've played rock, paper, scissors type games in the past, and they ultimately end up becoming a lot more boring and tedious, you just have to use the exact counter each time.

So please stop it with balance to the point of boringness... and the Falcon? I have no idea what people saw in it previously, but I can't find any use for it right now. And I wasn't around for the pre-nerf Falcon.

Its been said enough - if you get that this is a co-op MP game, then stop crying about not always having the top score. Be a team player. And if you think some build/weapon is OPed, there's nothing stopping you from using it either.

Stop ruining the game for everyone else, you're just being selfish!

Not to mention not all classes you choose to roll with will get you a high score because they are more of a support role than kill everything role

[pureblooded88]

They don't know how to play with them or create their class around the gun so they are always under the person who,s using the weapon. its not that there overpowering its that people know how to use them right

[KentGoldings]

Any sufficiently powerful weapon will change the way the game is played, People who feel like their good at the game the way it is don't like this. People don't like changes, so people will always **** about it.

Another argument I hear is accessibility. Until now, many of the most effective guns have been ultra-rare or Promotional, Thus, people feelspecial when they get them. What a slap in the face it must be when these rare guns turns the enemy into gibs or electric goo. People are elitist and when something non-elite is just as effective...they **** about it.

I'm surprised we don;t here more complaints about the Banshee infestation and the new delivery objective. These seem designed to mess with the gold farmers.

[Blissey1]

Tyeme Downs wrote...

If they scream about _______ being underpowered/useless, nothing happens. No reward/response.

*look at balance changes made during last month or 2*

yep, no buffs happening around here...

[Cyonan]

neteng101 wrote...

There's a difference between balance and sameness... if every weapon and character was made the same effectiveness, then you'd essentially have BORING. I've played rock, paper, scissors type games in the past, and they ultimately end up becoming a lot more boring and tedious, you just have to use the exact counter each time.

So please stop it with balance to the point of boringness... and the Falcon? I have no idea what people saw in it previously, but I can't find any use for it right now. And I wasn't around for the pre-nerf Falcon.

Its been said enough - if you get that this is a co-op MP game, then stop crying about not always having the top score. Be a team player. And if you think some build/weapon is OPed, there's nothing stopping you from using it either.

Stop ruining the game for everyone else, you're just being selfish!

The pre-nerf Falcon hit slightly weaker, but around twice as fast. You can actually still try it in SP since the balance changes don't affect it. In SP you have ammo issues with it though since you aren't tripping over ammo crates every 2 feet.

Most people don't want every weapon to be the same other than model and name. However it's fairly obvious to most people that certain weapons are just better and certain weapons are just worse.

People who are pro-balance(Not just nerf all the things or buff all the things) tend to want more diversity in the game. We're tired of seeing 90% of the casters using a Carnifex(Or Paladin if it's a high enough rank).

So I guess if wanting to get people to feel like they can use the gun they like the most and still be competitive with it makes me selfish, then I'm an incredibly selfish person.

Modifié par Cyonan, 30 mai 2012 - 08:12 .