143 réponses à ce sujet

[InfamousResult]

WARMACHINE9 wrote...

It will all be vanilla. no unique strategy no hope. imagination is strangled again by soulless feebs. If all the guns act the same WHY HAVE MULTIPLE GUNS? Think about that next time you ask for a nerf. Oh and the argument that ALL people using the same gun on the same class makes it OP is weak at best. Its called a BUILD and as much as they'd like us to believe it not every body using the same weapon builds they're class the same, Just most of them. Oh and don't knock it if it works.

You just contradicted yourself. You're saying that if they Nerf weapons, it will make everything the same- not unique at all, and you're implying that's a bad thing. But then you say that it's actually preferred for everybody to be using the same weapon because it's a "build", which isn't very imaginative at all.. It's everybody using the same exact thing.

So WHICH do you prefer? Do you want uniqueness and imagination, or do you want builds that are obviously superior?

[John123453242]

Then use something else Feneckus...

[WARMACHINE9]

I can have BOTH which is the great thing. oh and cake I like cake. Just because EVERYBODY ELSE is doing it one way doesn't mean I have to but its their right to. Oh and we all have a right to cake....unless it's a lie.

Modifié par WARMACHINE9, 30 mai 2012 - 09:24 .

[InfamousResult]

WARMACHINE9 wrote...

I can have BOTH which is the great thing. oh and cake I like cake.

And how do you have BOTH, pray tell?

[WARMACHINE9]

I don't have to follow the leader I can build how I want. One of the most successful AV's I've ever seen is my friends and it is in NO WAY similsr to how other people play. I play some bulids like others and some unique to my way of playing. See imagination and vanilla playing together real nice, like ice cream and chocolate sauce. You shouldn't let peoples builds affect YOUR gameplay.

[COLZ7R]

The easies way for the nerf brigade to be happy is always play with like minded mates, all take weapon centric classes and do gold all day just using the eagle, dont think that would be too easy.
Leave the majority to enjoy the game, thank you

[InfamousResult]

But them nerfing the more powerful weapons doesn't affect that.

It won't retract at all from the "unique" or "imaginative" gameplay you've come up with while using the weaker weapons, because they're the weaker weapons; if anything, it will encourage more people to be as "unique" and "imaginative" as you. It seems to me like you just threw that in as argument filler.

[D.Shepard]

InTheZone wrote...

 "This is overpowered"

"That's overpowered"

"OMG, GAME TOO EASY"

Then use the Shruiken and call it a day. Remember the Falcon? It got nerfed to hell before the rest of the community could enjoy it. Sheesh. It's like the only thing this community does successfully is **** and moan.

Beside I always wondered where the "overpowered" argument came from. Who decide what is "over" and not simply "powerful"?

About the Falcon-like events: I often refer to the "nerf everything club" as the "Nerf the Fun Movement". You got my opinion on the matter

[WARMACHINE9]

No making weapons weaker just makes the team weaker. It doesn't inspire it just takes away. I think your taking this waaay to seriously. Walk away have some cake and come back k?

[Sacrificial Bias]

Stardusk wrote...

Some weapons are broken, Reagar Carbine for example.

You mean the AoE weapon with no recoil that does as much DPS as the Hurricane?  Never heard of it:bandit:.

How about the sniper rifle that does more AoE damage per shot than the Black Widow while weighing less too?  I'll be buggered if anyone knows it exists:D.

I'd dumb down the Carbine damage by 10% and cut down the Krysae damage by 30%(or limit it to single shot).

In the meantime I think I'll go melt things some more on my GI with the Carbine before that nerf hammer inevitably lands.  I just hope they don't touch the Vorcha.  Despite what anyone thinks, it WILL go down on Gold if you don't kill things fast enough.

[Richter Harken]

Underpowered weapons and builds render themselves pointless, because people will pick what works best.

Overpowered weapons and builds render all others pointless because people will pick what works best.

In the interest of creating greater diversity and balance, nerfing overpowered builds yields greater results for less effort, and therefore is the obvious first step.

To achieve balanced builds, nerfs come first, buffs come after. It sucks when you get nerfed, but if you understand anything about game balance, you know that this is the way to get there.

I just wish we'd get there faster

[AwesomeDudex64]

Because people have no lives.

[Dookie no jutsu]

Nerf the buffs. Buff the nerfs and burf the smurfs.

[Niepz]

sareth_65536 wrote...

Imagine a player who OHK any enemy in the game. When you play with him you can just stand and relax, he will easily solo any wave on any difficulty. Is it an interesting game?
That's why they complain

what weapon OHK's primes, banshees, atlases, brutes, ravagers, turrets, centurions? even the falcon pre- nerf didn't do that... and the only 3 weapons that 1 hit kill anythig are bolt action snipers so..... yeah... i'd like to see such a weapon... nothing OHK on gold because of the shield/ barrier mechanic even if 1 bar of shield is left it absorbs all the damage honestly no weapon is overpowered... just a bunch fo whiny babies who want all the glory for themselves... I loved the falcon not because i could score high... but because the team benefited from it we could complete objective without getting hoar mobbed by 8 pyros and 4 primes... then the nerf came making gold that much harder.... at the end of the day whiny trolls will always win companies cater to the flaming 12 year olds who don't like to work together in co op and go out to solo things... yeah i've soloed a few rounds before on my own time or when the rest of my team is dead... get over ur high and mightiness and play the game as it should be as a team...

[N7 Banshee Bait]

InTheZone wrote...

 "This is overpowered"

"That's overpowered"

"OMG, GAME TOO EASY"

Then use the Shruiken and call it a day. Remember the Falcon? It got nerfed to hell before the rest of the community could enjoy it. Sheesh. It's like the only thing this community does successfully is **** and moan.

I've been saying this^ since the game came out.  Nobody likes it when they give us a crappy weak gun like the Eagle but they **** & moan when we get a good one like the Krysae.


Can you say ******???

[InfamousResult]

WARMACHINE9 wrote...

No making weapons weaker just makes the team weaker. It doesn't inspire it just takes away. I think your taking this waaay to seriously. Walk away have some cake and come back k?

Are you seriously trying to bring some "u mad" in here, when we're just talking about game balance changes? No, really, take this internet troll crap out. We're on a forum about Multiplayer, having a discussion, which is what forums are for.

If you actually believe what you're saying, then you don't understand what Balance actually does. You are just going to automatically assume that Nerf is bad. Why don't we just give everybody a button they can press at the start of the game that kills all the enemies and skips all the waves? BAM, everybody got what they want. Full-game buff. The game is obviously better now, and if somebody doesn't like it, they can just take the time to gather a full room of people who promise not to use that button, right?

.. no. That's dumb. Nerfs happen for a reason.

[WARMACHINE9]

I'm sorry would you like a little cheese with that whine. I'm trying to have a civil conversation while you are picking a fight. Who's trolling who my good gentle being?

[Apl_Juice]

paincanbefun wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

1. Balancing itself is a subjective idea, everyone knows that. In any game that has options, true balance is impossible, but you still want to work towards it. Just because those interpretations are subjective doesn't make them valueless.

2. I keep hearing the "I want this gun nerfed because it makes me have less fun when people use it" argument. That isn't the case at all, some weapons are so overpowered that they de-value other similar weapons. Example: Paladin vs. Sabre. The Sabre is weaker, heavier, slower, less accurate Paladin. Its only advantage is ammo capacity. In that sense, The Paladin devalues the Sabre. It may be a co-op game, but when playing with others there's always a bar you need to achieve regardless. Now, look at the Scorpion vs. the Falcon; 2 more guns with similar functions. The Scorpion is all-around better, but its an ultra rare, which is a significant nerf. They're better balanced. Another example: The Tempest. The Tempest is an Uncommon SMG, yet outperforms every automatic AR bar the Harrier. What, then, is the point of the Revenant, Phaeston, Avenger, GPR? The Tempest invalidates all of them.

You may say "Why use X if you don't like it?".

I say "Why is X in the game if it serves no function?"

Game balance is just as much about proper design as it is fairness. Why do guns like the Eagle, Locust, etc. etc. exist in the game if they're so grossly outperformed? Balance them or remove them.

1. i have no problem with that.  yes, i agree that in theory ballance serves a purpose and actually exists even if it can't be rigidly defined.

2. ok, i agree.  it would just never occur to me to make good guns worse, only to make bad guns better.  the incisor, in my opinion, has no function.  even playing a turian during marksman, the gun seems like a waste of the slot.  i agree that every weapon should be meaningful.  (honestly, even ultra rares should be ballanced, in my opinion, they should just do interesting and different things, not clearly superior things.  i know not everyone agrees with this)

so i aknowledge that you have a point, but firstly, that is truly not what i take away from most "nerf this" posts and secondly, it is my overwhelming prefference to ballance up if possible instead of ballancing down.  this is completely subjective too, of course.

Alright, but what's easier? Buffing 7 guns or nerfing one? And if you buff everything, Gold becomes too easy as far as credits go. Its simpler to keep everything at a relative level rather than buffing everything when we get new weapons.

Modifié par Apl_J, 30 mai 2012 - 09:45 .

[Schneidend]

Buff the weaker weapons = more robust game overall. Mass Effect 2 had it right when all the weapons had their uses.

[Indenter]

paincanbefun wrote...

Indenter wrote...

Because overpowered things take the word Co-op out of Co-op gameplay.

Why cooperate with other players when they solo the game? The only way I can cooperate there is to die constantly as I follow the prodood around.

respectfully: some people are very good.  if you're not, that's not their fault.  this isn't meant to be a dis, because if i took some classes into gold, i couldn't play them either.  but i can play on silver even with bad teammates and however good you are, i'm sure you can play on bronze even with bad teammates.

i agree that a good player who does not cooperate can seem like a liability to you, but there's a lot of ways bad teammates can be a liability and if this is a consistant problem for you, you can solve it by playing at an easier setting where teamwork is less important.

actually requesting that they be made less good seems unnecessary.

I have no idea what point you are trying to establish.

What does: player skill; playing bronze, playing silver, with bad teammates, certain classes, good player, liability, easier setting have ANYTHING to do with what I said?

I play a soldier and I can hold my own.

But observe:
Someone with a geth shotgun comes in and starts killing stuff from the Giant's bunker to the almost landing pad. This isn't about skill.

I'm just doing my thing and this guy comes along and starts killing everything in sight with a single click of a button. There isn't much room for co-op there.

It's not like I should drop everything I am doing and pick a freaking shotgun sniper cannon to steamroll the game just because every other gun in comparion to it is pretty bleh, but other players insist on using one (why not? its available) - don't tell me to do that. 

So the game becomes more about mouse key jamming and forgetting there are even other players and simply shooting everything that moves.

Not really cooperative.

[InfamousResult]

WARMACHINE9 wrote...

I'm sorry would you like a little cheese with that whine. I'm trying to have a civil conversation while you are picking a fight. Who's trolling who my good gentle being?

Okay, fine, I can do it this way too.

But my good gentle sir, I did not pick a fight with you- I merely stated why you are wrong, and that if you look at what you are saying objectively, you would find that you have riddled your own side of the discussion with obvious contradictions and fallacy.

Now, my gentlest of chaps, wouldn't you say that it would behoove everybody if every member of a discussion had an open mind, rather than a linear way of thinking? A person's immediate response should not simply be that one thing is bad, and that another is inherently good; you should attempt to think about why there are Buffs and Nerfs, why people actually ask for them, and while doing so, keep in mind that such changes happen throughout most, if not all, Multiplayer games.

I think that once you take these facts into consideration, respectable gentlefellow, you will find that both Buffs and Nerfs have very good reasons behind them, and that it is quite alright to ask for either of the two, rather than being restricted to merely one or else being stoned en masse by the community.

Pip pip righty-o?

[Apl_Juice]

Schneidend wrote...

Buff the weaker weapons = more robust game overall. Mass Effect 2 had it right when all the weapons had their uses.

Buff the weak weapons, and soon Gold is too easy. ITs best to establish a baseline ratio of player effectiveness : enemy effectiveness.

[BlackoutOmega]

I don't see why anything has to be nerfed, this isn't PVP.
I would think people would want overpowered guns for gold runs.

[iTz JoNeSy]

The new sniper turns gold in to bronze. Just saying. Its shockingly over powered and should stay that way.

[InfamousResult]

BlackoutOmega wrote...

I don't see why anything has to be nerfed, this isn't PVP.
I would think people would want overpowered guns for gold runs.

Yep. When you think about it, they should just give us a button we can press at the start of the game to kill all the enemies and skip all the waves. Then everybody will be happy.