464 réponses à ce sujet

[Clovis-]

Flowy material is one of the hardest things to have in games because of clipping and rendering; it just takes up a lot of memory. That being said.



PLEASE PUT CLOAKS AND CAPES IN TO THE NEXT DRAGON AGE. excuses excuses, just DO it.



Thank you. =)

[Brockololly]

MR-9 wrote...

They could have pushed back the release date. It honestly wouldn't have broken my heart.

And yet they did push back the release date for the PC version a whole 8 months- no, I'm glad we got the game when we did, cloaks or not.

I mean all this hulabaloo about cloaks, really? I wish they were in the game as much as anyone, but I agree with Mr. Gaider in that obviously there are plenty of bells and whistles that would make the game more visually appealing and diverse, but at the end of the day you've got to get the game out the door, so naturally some things will have to wait.

We can just hope that since they've laid the foundation of the DA universe they can try and implement some of those desired bells and whistles in future DA games.

[Adria Teksuni]

If they had pushed the release date back for cloaks...I would have become the howling ninja monkey of wrath to descend upon the house of Bioware to slash and rend and switch all their coffee to decaf.

[MR-9]

They don't have to look great and be done "properly", I'd just like to have them. I mean the Blood Dragon armor wasn't textured properly. Dex on X-Bows is STILL broken. The game took some rebalancing in the last patch and your game engine has a pretty bad memory leak that's been reported by hundreds if not thousands here.

It's not like adding non-perfect cloaks would be a crisis of standards based on this information.

Modifié par MR-9, 13 décembre 2009 - 06:47 .

[Adria Teksuni]

*cringes just thinking about the number of "WHY DID YOU PUT CLOAKS IN GAME WHEN THEY LOOK SO CRAPPY" posts*



We'd just switch out moaning, that's all.

[foil-]

There wasn't many/any that I can remember for NWN2.  Not for clipping anyway.  Maybe the actual cloak designs were critisised.

Modifié par foil-, 13 décembre 2009 - 06:53 .

[David Gaider]

Brockololly wrote...
We can just hope that since they've laid the foundation of the DA universe they can try and implement some of those desired bells and whistles in future DA games.

If there are further Dragon Age games, the one thing to keep in mind is that a big benefit of sequels is that you can build on that foundation rather than building everything from scratch. People tend to forget that we haven't actually *done* a sequel since Baldur's Gate II (and the upcoming ME2, I suppose) -- working on a brand-new engine is a bit of hell, actually, a bit like trying to arrange your living room furniture while they're still building the house. I know everyone likes to compare DAO to BG2, but more properly it should be compared to BG1 -- BG2 had the benefit of building on the foundation that BG1 laid, and allowed us to work with an already-quantified engine and spend more time tweaking and expanding rather than simply building. I, for one, will be glad to go back to working under those conditions -- if a sequel does materialize, of course.

[Dahelia]

Truthfully what is the real need for cloaks?? People here are complaining about something so silly and minor...like cloaks? Oh come on...seems people are just nitpicking the game to anger other people.

[Targonis1]

The sign of a good technical person is that you take pride in your work, and take offense when you perceive that others do not realize the effort that goes into what you do and may even insult your work.   Perceptions can be incorrect at times, but there IS a seldom appreciated benefit to these types of exchanges between people.

The holiday season also tends to raise stress levels, and it surprises me when people forget that.  

Now, for all the people out there who just don't understand the difficulty in cloaks(and long hair) in a game, the problem comes from how various items will interact with each other.   Put on a helm for example, and you notice that hair is automatically hidden in most games.   You don't see hair that sticks out from under a hat or helm most of the time, because the difficulty in making it look good is VERY high.   Cloaks or robes with a high collar can be especially difficult to deal with for this reason.

Some time in the future, things like physics and just letting the graphics chip or API handle  this sort of thing WILL make it easier to code since hair might just be put in as something for the physics engine to handle.   Until then, expect that you are looking at not just "how to make an item", but how to make an item work properly so it LOOKS decent.

The other side to this would be the balance of the game.   Right now, the equipment that is available in the game is balanced to take the lack of a cloak into account.   If cloaks were added, to keep the same balance, you should see a reduction in other pieces of equipment to balance it out.   Then you have things like inventory space taken by cloaks, and you will want at least 10 more inventory slots to handle it.   The problems go on and on and on.

A paid expansion would be the soonest I would expect to see cloaks added to the game, simply due to the programming time and financial cost in man-hours needed to address all of the above.   While programmers in general would love to just fix all bugs and implement all partially completed features, when a business is trying to balance their budget, they have to look at the costs involved in doing this or that.

The sad thing is that I understand so much of this, and yet, I still havn't gotten a chance to get into game development.   Ah well.

David Gaider wrote...

DragonAgeNeedsCapesOrCloaks wrote...
Hey man i was annoyed when i posted my thread and apparrently so were you when you responded.  I think it would be appropriate to offer up an apology if i offended you in any way.  Let's move forward amicably...And get to work on those damn cloaks! (just joking lol)

Then I apologize as well. I was no doubt snippier in my initial response than I needed to be, having read more acrimony into your post than you perhaps intended.

It certainly is gratifying, as well, to see that there are always third parties about to cluck their tongues and wag their fingers at me in disapproval of my insufficient corporate responsibility whenever I respond to someone else in a way that they don't like. I suppose it is worth remembering that I am supposed to be above other human beings and always respond to obnoxious behavior in kind, vague platitudes that don't ruffle any feathers.

[MR-9]

If you could create a game that would have people's cloaks they wear closed around them while they stand still, but flow out behind them when they walk/run/conversation. That would be pretty swell. Not with this engine though.

EDIT: I just remembered that Maive Shadowsong did this very thing in Warcraft 3. That may be where I got the idea.

Modifié par MR-9, 13 décembre 2009 - 06:59 .

[foil-]

Dahelia wrote...

Truthfully what is the real need for cloaks?? People here are complaining about something so silly and minor...like cloaks? Oh come on...seems people are just nitpicking the game to anger other people.

Of course we are not.  Its simply something we would like to see in games.  Why would this many people just be trying to be antagonistic.  A lot of people from the days of BG1 have been interested in cloaks and would like to see BioWare consider them in one of their games.  Nothing strange or inflamatory about that.  Your interests are different than mine.  This is not one of those minor requests.  This is something that has been desired by BioWare gamers since 1998.  I can't think of any other feature request more wanted than cloaks in the 10+ years reading these forums.

[MR-9]

foil- wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

Truthfully what is the real need for cloaks?? People here are complaining about something so silly and minor...like cloaks? Oh come on...seems people are just nitpicking the game to anger other people.

Of course we are not.  Its simply something we would like to see in games.  Why would this many people just be trying to be antagonistic.  A lot of people from the days of BG1 have been interested in cloaks and would like to see BioWare consider them in one of their games.  Nothing strange or inflamatory about that.  Your interests are different than mine.  This is not one of those minor requests.  This is something that has been desired by BioWare gamers since 1998.  I can't think of any other feature request more wanted than cloaks in the 10+ years reading these forums.

I agree. It would be excellent if the devs would share some of the insight gained via their abandoned cloaking project with the modding community. I still say it can't be done with this engine.

[Dahelia]

foil- wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

Truthfully what is the real need for cloaks?? People here are complaining about something so silly and minor...like cloaks? Oh come on...seems people are just nitpicking the game to anger other people.

Of course we are not.  Its simply something we would like to see in games.  Why would this many people just be trying to be antagonistic.  A lot of people from the days of BG1 have been interested in cloaks and would like to see BioWare consider them in one of their games.  Nothing strange or inflamatory about that.  Your interests are different than mine.  This is not one of those minor requests.  This is something that has been desired by BioWare gamers since 1998.  I can't think of any other feature request more wanted than cloaks in the 10+ years reading these forums.

Cloaks are nice, they look pretty, but I don't think they will add anything to the game but to make your character look nice and may adding willpower or something to do with what cloth does because there is no such thing as armored cloaks. They could very well add a huge disadvantage to the game itself by people wearing them. It is not like they are going to be better for rogues and make them invisible to the human eye. BG1 is not DA:O, people need to notice this. Also, cloaks were worn by nobles in the timeline they picked...made of silk...pretty expensive if you ask me.

[bjdbwea]

Targonis1 wrote...

Some time in the future, things like physics and just letting the graphics chip or API handle  this sort of thing WILL make it easier to code since hair might just be put in as something for the physics engine to handle.   Until then, expect that you are looking at not just "how to make an item", but how to make an item work properly so it LOOKS decent.

I keep hearing that, but I don't buy the "too much time and effort" argument. I have to particular interest in cloaks, but still. Just because you could do it physically correct, doesn't mean you have to. You can always use predetermined animations. NWN 1 did it when cloaks became available with a patch, and it did it with its animated hair too. And the hair still looks much nicer than these static things that people in DA wear on their heads. Haven't especially read the credits, but I'm sure some people who worked on the DA engine also worked on NWN 1. So why they've made all these small steps back (that add up) is still something I can't quite understand.

[SheffSteel]

engine engine engine engine engine

It's not about the engine

- unless you want to take the most CPU intensive approach to implementing cloaks.

There are other ways to do it.

The most likely approach - if this is to be done as a mod - is to modify the animations that cloak-wearing characters play.

It doesn't answer the question of where the weapons go - or, if they don't go anywhere, whether they should limit the movement of the cloak in the way that you'd expect magically suspended weapons to.

[Clovis-]

Well, cloaks could hide weapons; capes are another story though. They definitely have to do a lot of work on changing weapon positions and different heights and what not... but the fans want it; and if Bioware realized the amount of favor they would receive for doing cloaks and capes; then they would put the extra resources towards the next installment. 

Modifié par Clovis-, 13 décembre 2009 - 07:31 .

[Adria Teksuni]

NWN cloak animations are entirely different than DO:A cloak animations would be, completely different coding within a completely different framework. I'm not quite sure why everyone keeps comparing the addition of cloaks to NWN = addition of cloaks to DO:A.

[MR-9]

WoW has the most poorly implemented cloaks I've ever seen but people LOVE them and that game is retard strong in sales.

[foil-]

Dahelia wrote...

foil- wrote...

Dahelia wrote...

Truthfully what is the real need for cloaks?? People here are complaining about something so silly and minor...like cloaks? Oh come on...seems people are just nitpicking the game to anger other people.

Of course we are not.  Its simply something we would like to see in games.  Why would this many people just be trying to be antagonistic.  A lot of people from the days of BG1 have been interested in cloaks and would like to see BioWare consider them in one of their games.  Nothing strange or inflamatory about that.  Your interests are different than mine.  This is not one of those minor requests.  This is something that has been desired by BioWare gamers since 1998.  I can't think of any other feature request more wanted than cloaks in the 10+ years reading these forums.

Cloaks are nice, they look pretty, but I don't think they will add anything to the game but to make your character look nice and may adding willpower or something to do with what cloth does because there is no such thing as armored cloaks. They could very well add a huge disadvantage to the game itself by people wearing them. It is not like they are going to be better for rogues and make them invisible to the human eye. BG1 is not DA:O, people need to notice this. Also, cloaks were worn by nobles in the timeline they picked...made of silk...pretty expensive if you ask me.

While its not my real reason for desiring cloaks, I can see a dark coloured cloak being used to cover up reflective objects on your person.  Maybe not a great rogue tool, but something to consider when trying to prevent being detected from a distance.

Anyway, not my primary reason for wanting cloaks.  I see it more from a cinematography point of view which is likely what the more casual gamer will see when the game play is shown in commercials or whatever.

However, backing up a bit, I can see cloaks being more difficult in dragon age in combat due to a lot of the spinning and special moves.  Still, those moves would make cloaks look that much better and would be quite the coreographic acomplishment.  Alternatively, I guess the character could shrug off the cloak before combat.

And now that I think of it, cloak and dagger would be a great new combat style.  Using the cloak to your advantage to bind the enemies weapons, an added layer of protection (thick cloth/wool doesn't have to be armoured to add protection like leather), and make it harder for the oponent to make critical hits.  I could see that being difficult to do, but man would it be fun.  Sword and sheild is already a blast.  Cloak and dagger would be an ace feature for DAO2.

[MR-9]

Yeah, those of you saying cloaks can be done in this engine need to ask yourself why you don't have a string on your bow. Engine limitations.

Modifié par MR-9, 13 décembre 2009 - 07:34 .

[DragonRageGT]

And anyone saying that cloaks are only for the looks have obviously not met Sandal yet!

Enchantment? Enchantment!

[Felix_Domestica]

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
We can just hope that since they've laid the foundation of the DA universe they can try and implement some of those desired bells and whistles in future DA games.

If there are further Dragon Age games, the one thing to keep in mind is that a big benefit of sequels is that you can build on that foundation rather than building everything from scratch. People tend to forget that we haven't actually *done* a sequel since Baldur's Gate II (and the upcoming ME2, I suppose) -- working on a brand-new engine is a bit of hell, actually, a bit like trying to arrange your living room furniture while they're still building the house. I know everyone likes to compare DAO to BG2, but more properly it should be compared to BG1 -- BG2 had the benefit of building on the foundation that BG1 laid, and allowed us to work with an already-quantified engine and spend more time tweaking and expanding rather than simply building. I, for one, will be glad to go back to working under those conditions -- if a sequel does materialize, of course.

Mr. Gaider pls listen to me... WE NEED THAT SEQUEL. You(Bioware) are the only company that makes games with souls... We don't need games like Oblivion, Fallout 3 and other crap. We need emotions while playing the game and you're the only ones who are able to give them to us while playing. FFS I don't care for ****ing cloaks, I don't give a damn about horses, I don't mind somehow linear and small areas. We had those in other games and they didn't made them good.  Why? Its because DRAGON AGE and other games you make are ART, not games for kids... You're not only the company that makes games... You're the artists ffs! You can't abandon Dragon Age, its your masterpiece...

Replace word "love" with "BIOWARE"...


I'm broken...
Much love...

[ponozsticka]

Wow, 10 pages and you are still talking about cloaks...I´m impressed guys

[Adria Teksuni]

I'm sure they would love to work on a DO:A sequel, but they cannot explicitly state one way or another that they are until it's absolutely 100% carved in stone.



Duke Nuke'em Forever taught the developer community much in the way of game news release.



Don't give up, they just have a lot on their plates right now, with ME2 and KoTOR MMO.

[MR-9]

Felix_Domestica wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
We can just hope that since they've laid the foundation of the DA universe they can try and implement some of those desired bells and whistles in future DA games.

If there are further Dragon Age games, the one thing to keep in mind is that a big benefit of sequels is that you can build on that foundation rather than building everything from scratch. People tend to forget that we haven't actually *done* a sequel since Baldur's Gate II (and the upcoming ME2, I suppose) -- working on a brand-new engine is a bit of hell, actually, a bit like trying to arrange your living room furniture while they're still building the house. I know everyone likes to compare DAO to BG2, but more properly it should be compared to BG1 -- BG2 had the benefit of building on the foundation that BG1 laid, and allowed us to work with an already-quantified engine and spend more time tweaking and expanding rather than simply building. I, for one, will be glad to go back to working under those conditions -- if a sequel does materialize, of course.

Mr. Gaider pls listen to me... WE NEED THAT SEQUEL. You(Bioware) are the only company that makes games with souls... We don't need games like Oblivion, Fallout 3 and other crap. We need emotions while playing the game and you're the only ones who are able to give them to us while playing. FFS I don't care for ****ing cloaks, I don't give a damn about horses, I don't mind somehow linear and small areas. We had those in other games and they didn't made them good.  Why? Its because DRAGON AGE and other games you make are ART, not games for kids... You're not only the company that makes games... You're the artists ffs! You can't abandon Dragon Age, its your masterpiece...

Replace word "love" with "BIOWARE"...


I'm broken...
Much love...

This is one of those rare beautiful moments when people speak genuine truth. BioWare you're gonna be in bad if you don't make that sequel. We'll all be spending that time playing a sub-par RPG when we could be enjoying real quality. You guys aren't perfect, but you're the best we've got for now I guess.