201 réponses à ce sujet

[Samtheman63]

no

[Taboo]

Nice to see that AWFUL pun made someone smile.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Oh, and synthesis was never intended to be Paragon or Renegade. It was supposed to be beyond the other options as it didn't actually provide a way to solve the problem so much as getting rid of it all together.

[Adugan]

Taboo-XX wrote...


There are no.......REAPERCUSSIONS.

I dont geth it...

[TJX2045]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Actually, low-EMS Destroy does take out "most of the technology you rely on." This interestingly does not apply to low-EMS Control.

Because technically low-EMS control is the worst option.  The Renegade choice in ME2 was to save the base.  The Illusive Man wanted to save the base to learn how to control the Reapers.  You get to the end, you get a chance to control them.

The Starchild assumes you wanted to control them because you kept their technology and also you have low EMS.  You're stuck with that regardless because a Renegade Shepard would...wait for it...want to control the super powerful godlike machines!

Therefore, if we base it on that fact from an import, then Control is actually Renegade.

Here's proof: 


Looking back at this video, in the context of the scene, the line about the Illusive Man just makes no sense if that is what Shepard wanted to begin with...LOL.

Modifié par TJX2045, 30 mai 2012 - 10:08 .

[Shallyah]

Adugan wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


There are no.......REAPERCUSSIONS.

I dont geth it...

Then you should husk someone more knowledgeable...

[Adugan]

Shallyah wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


There are no.......REAPERCUSSIONS.

I dont geth it...

Then you should husk someone more knowledgeable...

Vor cha talkin about?

[Taboo]

Shallyah wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


There are no.......REAPERCUSSIONS.

I dont geth it...

Then you should husk someone more knowledgeable...

A personal TRAYNOR?

But seriously, I don't think any of the options are good or bad. Each has it's.......benefits and downsides.

It's up to YOU to decide what's best.

[Bill Casey]

The paragon option is quitting the game and raising 80,000 dollars for charity, while sending Bioware cupcakes and M&Ms...

[Adugan]

Bill Casey wrote...

The paragon option is quitting the game and raising 80,000 dollars for charity, while sending Bioware cupcakes and M&Ms...

No way. IGN told us we are bad people for doing that. That must be renegade.

[Taboo]

I don't care what journalist have to say. Being paid for such things? Nonsense.

The only thing that matters is HOW you solve the conflict. All three do that.

[Bad King]

I have argued that control is more of a renegade choice while destroy is more in line with the paragon philosophy:

social.bioware.com/msg.forum/forum/1/topic/355/index/12263044/19#12284502

[Bill Casey]

Bad King wrote...

I have argued that control is more of a renegade choice while destroy is more in line with the paragon philosophy:

social.bioware.com/msg.forum/forum/1/topic/355/index/12263044/19#12284502

I would argue that Destroy is both Paragon and Renegade and the other two options are offensively stupid...



All Conversations with Illusive Man - Paragon
All Conversations with Illusive Man - Renegade

[The Night Mammoth]

Adugan wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...


There are no.......REAPERCUSSIONS.

I dont geth it...

Then you should husk someone more knowledgeable...

Vor cha talkin about?

Now that is a good one. 

[The Night Mammoth]

john_sheparrd wrote...

destroy is paragon pure because that is what every good npc wanted
control and synthesis: the illusive man, Saren

Fallacy of association!

[mass perfection]

Destroy=Mass genocide
Control=Mass slavery
Synthesis=Mass genetic rewrite.

All are renegade,congratulations you just earned 100 Renegade points.

[Lord Goose]

Yes.

Throught the games, Paragon goal was more "protect the Galaxy" rather than destroying the Reapers. If they were just flying in the outer space, there wouldn't be any problem.

Destroy is renegade because it requires sacrifice of entire species to end Reapers threat AND where is no alternative to it. What's important. If where is no alternative, yes, it isn't renegade, because it is either them or the entire Galaxy. If you have wiped out geth before, when it's not renegade too, because where are no sacrifices.

Control is paragon, because it doesn't involve killing of entire species, and still ends Reapers threat.

Synthesis is not truly one of them. Paragon can't play God (he is not up to do such decisions). Renegade shouldn't care about synthetics (they're just machines with no ability to make choices of their own). It's... mixed. Like when you mix blue and red you got green.

Also, given how often Control and Synthesis are being bashed as "false ending" and "bad endings" sort of proves that Destroy is renegade solution. Renegade makes hard decisions with no alternatives. If Control and Synthesis are "LIES!" or bad endings, yes, it's certainly what Destroy should be picked.

The Renegade choice in ME2 was to save the base. The Illusive Man wanted to save the base to learn how to control the Reapers. You get to the end, you get a chance to control them.

Actually, it may not be related. If you have saved the base you get this War Asset

Reaper Brain
The Illusive Man salvaged the most valuable part of the human proto-Reaper under construction by the Collectors: its central processor. This "brain" has been reactivated for use as a computational device, crunching unheard amounts of data in nanoseconds. The Crucible's engineers are dissecting the processor, working in strictly supervised, drone-assisted shifts. While direct contact with Reapers is dangerous, the engineers feel the risk is worth the potential discovery of vulnerabilities in Reaper construction.

If you have choosen to destroy the base, you will get Reaper's Heart.

After Commander Shepard destroyed the Collector base, Cerberus spent months picking through irradiated rubble for anything useful. The human proto-Reaper the Collectors were building lay in pieces. But its incomplete core survived. The power cell would have been capable of fueling a full-fledged Reaper. After studying the device, Cerberus modified it to fuel the Illusive Man's base. Alliance engineers believe they can use the core similarly to power the Crucible.

I think it wouldn't be a stretch to assume, that it is easier to control Reaper if you know how their brains are functioning, and it is easier to kill them with additional power.

[Lord Goose]

Control=Mass slavery

Controlling the Reapers is not slavery. If they're really soulles forces of nature, its not different from harnessing electricity. If they're sentient beings capable for making their own decisions, they're still resposible for massive harvesting and deaths, so it's only natural to deprive them from freedom. It's the same as putting criminal in jail, just via space magic.

[mass perfection]

Lord Goose wrote...

Control=Mass slavery

Controlling the Reapers is not slavery. If they're really soulles forces of nature, its not different from harnessing electricity. If they're sentient beings capable for making their own decisions, they're still resposible for massive harvesting and deaths, so it's only natural to deprive them from freedom. It's the same as putting criminal in jail, just via space magic.

They never had freedom.

[Zardoc]

Lord Goose wrote...


Throught the games, Paragon goal was more "protect the Galaxy" rather than destroying the Reapers. If they were just flying in the outer space, there wouldn't be any problem.

 

In a perfect galaxy, perhaps. Yet there is no guarantee the Reapers wouldn't simply return. Not destroying the Reapers on the off-chance that they might just stop reaping is neither Paragon nor Renegade, it's plain stupid. Destroying the Reapers IS the only way to stop them.

Lord Goose wrote...
Destroy is renegade because it requires sacrifice of entire species to end Reapers threat AND where is no alternative to it. What's important. If where is no alternative, yes, it isn't renegade, because it is either them or the entire Galaxy. If you have wiped out geth before, when it's not renegade too, because where are no sacrifices.

 

Destroy does not sacrifice an entire species. At best, the Catalyst lied or was misinformed (seeing how EDI can survive Destroy, for example. Why wouldn't the geth survive as well?). Even if the geth die, their "blood" is on the hands of the Catalyst, not ours. It used the geth as hostages to prevent us from permanently stopping the Reapers.
 

Lord Goose wrote...
Control is paragon, because it doesn't involve killing of entire species, and still ends Reapers threat.

Accepting the power the main villain offers you, power to be a god, is not Paragon. It's in fact the most selfish thing anyone could ever do. I can't imagine the hubris of one such person who thinks he could control the Reapers and not be changed by this power. If you don't die by getting disintegrated, that is.

Lord Goose wrote...
Synthesis is not truly one of them. Paragon can't play God (he is not up to do such decisions). Renegade shouldn't care about synthetics (they're just machines with no ability to make choices of their own). It's... mixed. Like when you mix blue and red you got green.

You say a Paragon can't play god, yet advocate that Control is the choice of a Paragon. You are contradicting yourself.

Modifié par Zardoc, 30 mai 2012 - 10:32 .

[Lord Goose]

They never had freedom.

If they never had a freedom of choice to begin with, when it cannot be slavery.

[NYG1991]

I don't think any of the choices fall directly under paragon or renegade.

from what I see in the endings, destroy is the only one that completely ends the reaper threat. It might not be the "best" but it's definitely the most final.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Who cares? This reminds me of people who chose to rewrite the Geth Heretics because it was presented as being paragon, even though all the paragon options they'd been hitting all mission were saying "brainwashing them would be bad". People should think for themselves and not let some arbitrary system decide for them.

[Lord Goose]

In a perfect galaxy, perhaps.

Synthesis will give you a perfect Galaxy.

The chances of Reapers returning to harvest after Catalyst acknowledges what this solution will not work anymore, are the same as synthetics reaching singularity and wiping out organics forever.

Destroy does not sacrifice an entire species. At best, the Catalyst lied or was misinformed (seeing how EDI can survive Destroy, for example. Why wouldn't the geth survive as well?). Even if the geth die, their "blood" is on the hands of the Catalyst, not ours. It used the geth as hostages to prevent us from permanently stopping the Reapers.

You don't know what. And I'm personally quite sure what this "EDI ending" is either fake, or result of developers mistake. Where are such mistakes, for example Conrad Verner if he survived first game would consider what you have intimidated him.

And we have no evidence what Catalyst is trying to prevent Shepard from killing Reapers by "taking the geth hostage". It sounds logical: Crucible will destroy all synthetics, so geth would die.

Accepting the power the main villain offers you, power to be a god, is not Paragon.

Plyaing God is synthesis. In Control you just take Reapers from the galaxy and nobody else dies.

You are contradicting yourself.

If I considered Control as playing God, yes.
But I don't. You do, though.