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[The Night Mammoth]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The Reapers.

They to are sentient.

That genuinely made me laugh. 


Some things aren't deserving of the rights of sapient life-forms. 

[Lord Goose]

Allowing the Reapers to live is a species
of failure, because so long as they live
there is no true guarantee that they'll
never kill again.

Safest ending is Synthesis. No harvesting, no future synthetic rebellion.

[element eater]

destroy stops the reapers it is undeniable

control can stop the reapers but its impossible to see what may happen. So long as they exist so does the threat they pose to the galaxy. there may even be ways for shepard to loose control or someone may be able to use the catalyst again to take control for them selves

[Joe Del Toro]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Yet you're...ok with destroying them. What?

Yes, because I gotta take care of other sentients in the galaxy, if everyone is doomed, I choose to have the reapers to die first

I don't support Control, man. I just disagreed with that logic is all.

[The Night Mammoth]

element eater wrote...


destroy stops the reapers it is undeniable

control can stop the reapers but its impossible to see what may happen. So long as they exist so does the threat they pose to the galaxy. there may even be ways for shepard to loose control or someone may be able to use the catalyst again to take control for them selves

Can't lose control of something that doesn't exist. 

[DRTJR]

The catalist is shown to be a lying sack of $#!+, Shepard lives, and so can EDI. Thus Geth can live.

[Lord Goose]

The Reapers. They to are sentient.

I actually dout it. In the original story, when they were collective of different races united to prevent dark matter of ruining universe, yes, they probably were sentient. But judging from that Catalyst says, they were his tools all along and have no more freedom than a VI.

[Han Shot First]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...


If Shepard's goal is to protect the galaxy from them, there is nothing wrong with it. Killing the Reapers was mean to achieve this goal, not the goal itself.

Allowing the Reapers to live is a species of failure, because so long as they live there is no true guarantee that they'll never kill again. The only way to definitively end the Reaper threat for all time, without question, is to destroy them.

I achieve that with control.

Problem?

...according to Star Brat, a being you had only met 5 minutes before who uses pronouns like "we" and "our" when referring to Reapers and their plots. 

With control there is no guarantee that the Reapers will never again destroy civilizations because they survive, and the guarantee that they won't is being given by a Reaper. Would you trust Harbinger or Sovereign? If the answer is no, why do you trust Star Brat?

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Yet you're...ok with destroying them. What?

No I'm not. I wish people would understand that.

I simply believe that killing someone is preferable to enslaving them.

I make the choice based upon personal beliefs. I simply consider it the lesser of the three evils.

I'm going to talk about this tomorrow in a new thread.

Yet you'd rather kill them along with the geth rather than kill them in control and destroy the relays rather than  merely damaging the relays?

Modifié par Leonardo the Magnificent, 31 mai 2012 - 12:41 .

[111987]

I think you can argue it either way, which I kind of like. It's a little ambiguous.

Saving the Reapers to use later fits in with other Paragon choices such as saving the Rachni Queen, the Genophage data, and the Heretic Geth.

On the other hand, the Illusive Man is clearly a Renegade, and since Control is personified by TIM, it suggests that it is the Renegade choice. Saving the Collector Base is also a Renegade choice that is very similar to Control.

[The Night Mammoth]

Han Shot First wrote...

...according to Star Brat, a being you had only met 5 minutes before who uses pronouns like "we" and "our" when referring to Reapers and their plots.  

Not according to the serpent, actually. 

I achieve that through my own means, sorry to dissapoint you. 

With control there is no guarantee that the Reapers will never again destroy civilizations because they survive, and the guarantee that they won't is being given by a Reaper.

There wouldn't be. That's why I made a guarantee with the excessive application of heat and radiation. 

Would you trust Harbinger or Sovereign? If the answer is no, why do you trust Star Brat?

I don't. 

[Han Shot First]

111987 wrote...

On the other hand, the Illusive Man is clearly a Renegade, and since Control is personified by TIM, it suggests that it is the Renegade choice. Saving the Collector Base is also a Renegade choice that is very similar to Control.

The Control and Destroy endings are also linked to Shepard's choice in ME2. The best Control ending is more easily achieved if Shepard kept the Collector base (Renegade) and the best Destroy ending is more easily achieved if Shepard desroyed the Collector base. (Paragon)

That suggests that the selection of TIM and Anderson as avatars was not random.

[MegaBadExample]

I'm STILL picking destroy.

[estebanus]

Paragon/renegade does not factor into the endings, because all are evil in a sense.

Control: becoming a hypocrite and enslaving a sentient race.

Destroy: committing genocide on all synthetic life.

Synthesis: In addition to making no sense, forced evolution on eyery single being in the galaxy.

Not very paragon, right?

[element eater]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Can't lose control of something that doesn't exist. 

maybe i mssunderstood but are u saying you would destroy them through control ? That seems like a good move only the game seems to imply(atleast to me) that this is not an option(why even mention destroy if it is). Even if it is possible i would never take the risk unless i was utterly convinced it would succeed which afer the dialoge i am not.

if u meant something else then i guess itll have to wait it times for sleep

[Vigilant111]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Yet you're...ok with destroying them. What?

Yes, because I gotta take care of other sentients in the galaxy, if everyone is doomed, I choose to have the reapers to die first

I don't support Control, man. I just disagreed with that logic is all.

Good man

[Lord Goose]

On the other hand, the Illusive Man is
clearly a Renegade, and since Control is
personified by TIM, it suggests that it is
the Renegade choice. Saving the Collector
Base is also a Renegade choice that is
very similar to Control.

You should note, that even if you max your Renegade bar, you still would be able to have paragon interruptions, albeit rare ones. Meaning that every Renegade can act as paragon, and vice versa.
Also, saving Collectors is more like destroy. The data from base would help us fight the Reapers, so why bother about the price? Same thing with destroy - geth are price to kill the Reapers.

[The Night Mammoth]

estebanus wrote...

Paragon/renegade does not factor into the endings, because all are evil in a sense.

Control: becoming a hypocrite and enslaving a sentient race.

I'm so confused. 

Before this did anyone genuinely care about the Reaper's rights? 

I'm guessing no. We all wanted to kill them, and rightly so, too. 

Why is it now, when people are looking for ever more abstract reasons not to like something, they fall to this insanity?

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 31 mai 2012 - 12:50 .

[Han Shot First]

The Night Mammoth wrote...


I achieve that through my own means, sorry to dissapoint you. 

With control there is no guarantee that the Reapers will never again destroy civilizations because they survive, and the guarantee that they won't is being given by a Reaper.

There wouldn't be. That's why I made a guarantee with the excessive application of heat and radiation. 

The only ending that does that is Destroy.

Control does not  fly the Reapers into a Blue Giant or Black Hole, and any suggestion that it does falls under the category of 'head canon.' Until we see that actually happen in the ending, it hasn't actually happened.
The last shot we get of the Reapers in Control is of them flying away to potentially reap another day.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 31 mai 2012 - 12:50 .

[Lord Goose]

Paragon/renegade does not factor into
the endings, because all are evil in a
sense. Control: becoming a hypocrite and
enslaving a sentient race.

If I choose Control and make the Reapers leave into dark space to roam where for eternity? Is that also enslavement and not just simple imprisonment?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'm perfectly okay with all the reapers dying. It is not the least of the evils choice. Shepard is the avatar of vengeance for all those they have killed. I have no moral conflict with this.

[The Night Mammoth]

element eater wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Can't lose control of something that doesn't exist. 

maybe i mssunderstood but are u saying you would destroy them through control ? That seems like a good move only the game seems to imply(atleast to me) that this is not an option(why even mention destroy if it is). Even if it is possible i would never take the risk unless i was utterly convinced it would succeed which afer the dialoge i am not.

if u meant something else then i guess itll have to wait it times for sleep

You understood perfectly, and I acknowledge the scepticism and agree with it myself. 

[Taboo]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...
Yet you'd rather kill them along with the geth rather than kill them in control and destroy the relays rather than  merely damaging the relays?

The Geth are already dead in my playthrough. See how this comes together for me?

With all those Reaper corpses lying around we'll certainly find some interesting things.

FTL improvements, the possible reconstruction of the Relays.

Then the galaxy is safe for at least ten thousand years, as the Star Gazer scene suggests.

When all is said and done in Control you still have an objectivist's wet dream lying in the Citadel.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 31 mai 2012 - 12:52 .

[gmboy902]

First of all, choosing to destroy the Geth or Quarians isn't a Paragon/Renegade choice. Each side has recognizeable grievances.

Secondly, one of the ending's many failures was that it didn't stick to the Paragon/Renegade formula that built the series. Not even a hint of it. The choices were clear in the other games. Mass Effect 1; sacrifice human lives to save the Council and thousands of aliens onboard the Ascension, or give humanity an upper hand by letting others die. Mass Effect 2; destroy dangerous and unethical technology, or keep it to give you a better chance to complete your mission.

[Lord Goose]

The last shot we get of the Reapers in
Control is of them flying away to
potentially reap another day.

Well, we also have message about ending the Reaper threat. And dialogue with Stargazer.