410 réponses à ce sujet

[kookie28]

Taboo-XX wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

Freedom is so . . . chaotic.

But without it we couldn't post Spiderman pictures.

Wouldn't that suck?

That's what's so great about freedom.

We are merely the vessel that the Spider man pictures use to post themselves.

They would find another way.

Spiderman pictures are bits of data. An abstraction. They are nothing.

You CHOOSE to post them and with the potential consequences.

That's why it's great.

Spider man threads can't be destroyed.  Spider man threads are an idea, and they are so much bigger than the galaxy, or even the Reapers.

[Taboo]

kookie28 wrote...
Spider man threads can't be destroyed.  Spider man threads are an idea, and they are so much bigger than the galaxy, or even the Reapers.

Is this real life? Is this just fantasy?

Perhaps we all exist in the dream of a mad man?

Sometimes, we must accept that we are the way we are and will likely never know what "purpose" is.

But to search for it. The freedom to do that, is what makes us human.

Choice.

[kookie28]

Taboo-XX wrote...

kookie28 wrote...
Spider man threads can't be destroyed.  Spider man threads are an idea, and they are so much bigger than the galaxy, or even the Reapers.

Is this real life? Is this just fantasy?

Perhaps we all exist in the dream of a mad man?

Sometimes, we must accept that we are the way we are and will likely never know what "purpose" is.

But to search for it. The freedom to do that, is what makes us human.

Choice.

One of us is taking this conversation more literally than the other.

Speculations . . .

Modifié par kookie28, 31 mai 2012 - 11:26 .

[Ashtarth1]

Bullsh!t. We destroy them or they destroy us.

[kookie28]

Ashtarth1 wrote...

Bullsh!t. We destroy them or they destroy us.

I think playing a recording of Femshep's voice "actor" (actor is a strong word for what she does) across all the Reaper channels would be the best option.  They'd have no choice but to flee back to dark space to get out of the broadcast range. 

[Taboo]

kookie28 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

kookie28 wrote...
Spider man threads can't be destroyed.  Spider man threads are an idea, and they are so much bigger than the galaxy, or even the Reapers.

Is this real life? Is this just fantasy?

Perhaps we all exist in the dream of a mad man?

Sometimes, we must accept that we are the way we are and will likely never know what "purpose" is.

But to search for it. The freedom to do that, is what makes us human.

Choice.

One of us is taking this conversation more literally than the other.

Speculations . . .

You assume I take much of anything seriously.

I have motives, sure, but they are my own.

[Dendio1]

Grimwick wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Catalyst would be the one stopping them from learning to create their own computer.

What's the difference? The Reapers continually give organics the means to rapidly create AI, then as a bonus it usurps those AIs and forces them to exterminate organics.
The Catalyst causes all the problems it claims to prevent.

Legion points out that technological advancement is possible without adhering to reaper tech. The relays are there as a form of control. Allowing organic technological progress to develop itself through reaper tech makes the time frame predicatable. The order that the reapers impose is that it takes 50,000 years for organic life to develop technology that can lead to its destruction.

The chaos is that without the predictable reaper tech laden path of advancement, there is no way to predict when organics will pass the threshold where they develop tech with the ability/potential to wipe out organic life

What you just said did not counter The Angry One's point in any way. I have no idea what point you are trying to make at all.

NB - This whole 'order and chaos' thing... it's ridicuous. No theory of the reaper's motivations or machinations should be created from 1/2 lines of dialogue.

Im not trying to prove her wrong. What she wrote is correct. Im explaining why the reapers give their technology to organic civilizations. Its a way to control their development. Its a way to regulate when the reapers need to intervene. It also makes the weapons organics use against the reapers predictable.

The fact that reapers use the current AI against the organics is irrelivant to the catalyst and has nothing to do with the threat of a future singularity. The use of AI is simply to assist the reapers in their task of wiping out the targetted civilizations.

This whole thing is about stopping organics from creating tech that *could* lead to their extinction. Star kid wants to prevent the possibility of organic extinction. That means halting technological advancement once it approaches dangerous levels.

You can reject star kid's order and choose destroy. The chaos the catalyst references is that without the reapers stopping them, organics may cross the technological threshold and find scenarios where their created tech ends up wiping organics out.  The reapers are gone, the order is lost and whatever happens in the future cannot be known for certain. The fact that organic extinction becomes possible, even if not certain, makes it unpredictable and thus chaotic. 

The reaper cycle system on the other hand has kept organics from scenario's where their tech wipes out organic life. Billions of years and organic civilizations continue to prosper. This is order. There is no possibility here where organic life can wipe itself out

I agree that the catalyst really needs to say all this crap plainly. End of the trilogy, enough connecting dots.

Modifié par Dendio1, 01 juin 2012 - 12:19 .

[Taboo]

Chaos is the natural state of the Universe.

That's the way it should be.

Who the hell has the right to interfere with that?

[Dendio1]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Chaos is the natural state of the Universe.

That's the way it should be.

Who the hell has the right to interfere with that?

I agree chaos is the natural state. I don't know if its the best state. Think about it, the entire point of a civilization is to create order amongst the chaos.

[Taboo]

Dendio1 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Chaos is the natural state of the Universe.

That's the way it should be.

Who the hell has the right to interfere with that?

I agree chaos is the natural state. I don't know if its the best state. Think about it, the entire point of a civilization is to create order amongst the chaos.

Chaos Reigns.

If we are to do it, we do it by natural progression. 

Take for instance, your Diabetes. That will be cured on it's own merits and it will in time by Science. But to bring chaos to everything at once? No. That would cause more chaos. People would no longer die and such. It must progress normally.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 01 juin 2012 - 12:21 .

[Dendio1]

ReXspec wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

You know what solves the Organic/Synthetic conflict?

The entire Rannoch arc and talking to EDI. You prove that they can co-exist. There is no need for Synthesis. It is like solving the Catholic/Protestant conflict only to force them to worship a combination of the two anyway.

Genius.

Also, it's been said a million times before, but whatever.

The only thing that Synthesis could accomplish, is the theoretical prevention of technological singularity.

Forcing organic and synthetic beings to merge and calling it, "The final stage of evolution" is not transhumanism, it's stagnation.

Forcing stagnation of a galaxies worth of species is not progressive.  We do not grow, we do not add, we do not progress.  We stop.  If what the star brat says is true, we will stop at synthesis.

It proves that pre-singularity tech can co-exist with organics ( and it doesn't guarentee that peace will last). Post-singularity tech can lead to scenario's where organics are wiped out from their creations. Organic life ceases to be a certainty in this future. Where there is uncertainty there is chaos.

The cycle system, however guarentees organic life will persist, as it has under the reaper order for billions of years.

At least until star kid realised that he hadn't thought about artifacts passing technological advancements between cycles.

Modifié par Dendio1, 01 juin 2012 - 12:24 .

[PsyrenY]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Chaos is the natural state of the Universe.

That's the way it should be.

Who the hell has the right to interfere with that?

What makes you think Chaos is going anywhere? Control over evolution does not eliminate any of the other sources of randomness in the universe, like radiation or weather; just the speed and accuracy at which life can adapt to them.

[Taboo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Chaos is the natural state of the Universe.

That's the way it should be.

Who the hell has the right to interfere with that?

What makes you think Chaos is going anywhere? Control over evolution does not eliminate any of the other sources of randomness in the universe, like radiation or weather; just the speed and accuracy at which life can adapt to them.

Think about it for a minute and get back to me.

To intervene at such a level is....massive.

You affect every organism in the Universe. You mess with the way it will form. You control it.

No Chaos, at least with life.

You and I here are because of it. The chaotic nature has put us here and will remove us eventually. This is how it goes.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Dendio1 wrote...

ReXspec wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

You know what solves the Organic/Synthetic conflict?

The entire Rannoch arc and talking to EDI. You prove that they can co-exist. There is no need for Synthesis. It is like solving the Catholic/Protestant conflict only to force them to worship a combination of the two anyway.

Genius.

Also, it's been said a million times before, but whatever.

The only thing that Synthesis could accomplish, is the theoretical prevention of technological singularity.

Forcing organic and synthetic beings to merge and calling it, "The final stage of evolution" is not transhumanism, it's stagnation.

Forcing stagnation of a galaxies worth of species is not progressive.  We do not grow, we do not add, we do not progress.  We stop.  If what the star brat says is true, we will stop at synthesis.

It proves that pre-singularity tech can co-exist with organics ( and it doesn't guarentee that peace will last). Post-singularity tech can lead to scenario's where organics are wiped out from their creations. Organic life ceases to be a certainty in this future. Where there is uncertainty there is chaos.

The cycle system, however guarentees organic life will persist, as it has under the reaper order for billions of years.

At least until star kid realised that he hadn't thought about artifacts passing technological advancements between cycles.

The Cycle System Guarantees Jack S--t
Since Evolution is a Constantly Moving/Existing Force so unless without The Reapers, Cells will stop Evolving and reproducing Creating a complex Multicellular organisms Like they have since the DAWN of time yeah sure that's the end of organic life.
Remember
LIFE FINDS A WAY

Modifié par TheClonesLegacy, 01 juin 2012 - 12:35 .

[PsyrenY]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Think about it for a minute and get back to me.

I have. Have you? However massive the effects, Synthesis only affects life and machines. Does it change clouds? Stars? The magma and cores of planets? The fluctuations of air and water? Magnetic fields? There are still many avenues of chaos and unpredictability left. Or are you claiming that organisms and robots are responsible for all of life's uncertainty?

[Taboo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Think about it for a minute and get back to me.

I have. Have you? However massive the effects, Synthesis only affects life and machines. Does it change clouds? Stars? The magma and cores of planets? The fluctuations of air and water? Magnetic fields? There are still many avenues of chaos and unpredictability left. Or are you claiming that organisms and robots are responsible for all of life's uncertainty?

And it's wrong. WRONG.

It should develop and die naturally. I will never interfere with it. That isn't transhumanism, that's playing God.

[PsyrenY]

Taboo-XX wrote...

And it's wrong. WRONG.

It should develop and die naturally. I will never interfere with it. That isn't transhumanism, that's playing God.

So you concede there are other sources of chaos in the universe then?

[Twin_Jaded]

 This is Blasphemy.

[Taboo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

And it's wrong. WRONG.

It should develop and die naturally. I will never interfere with it. That isn't transhumanism, that's playing God.

So you concede there are other sources of chaos in the universe then?

I was always talking about the evolution of life. I would have thought you would have figured this out by now.

This isn't moral relativism in this case. You make a choice that affects EVERYTHING and for ALL time. That is an absolutism.

What others do in the future is not my choice to interfere with. If they destroy themselves then so be it. They will have only proven Carl Sagan right.

[Icinix]

I would rather shoot myself in the head than have someone force synthesis upon me and tell me I have to role over and take it because its the best for me.

[OH-UP-THIS!]

john_sheparrd wrote...

Destroy is the only option!

QFT, because if the rEApers are still flitting about, they're deadly.

OP there is no middle ground, we aren't in some tree-huggin' pro liberal debate with these monsters, they die!!

[Taboo]

Actually, I fit on the hugging side of the left but even I think the Reapers need to be destroyed.

Dear God the horror.

[Dendio1]

Extended cut can't come quickly enough. Speculations for everyone is the worst way to end a trilogy.

Modifié par Dendio1, 01 juin 2012 - 01:13 .

[Taboo]

Dendio1 wrote...

Extended cut can't come quickly enough. Speculations for everyone is the worst way to end a trilogy.

This isn't the good kind.

I agree fully.

[PsyrenY]

Taboo-XX wrote...


I was always talking about the evolution of life. I would have thought you would have figured this out by now.

No, you were talking about the Universe, as your own quote above me shows. The Universe contains nonliving things too, and they are just as much sources of chaos and variation as the living ones. So synthesizing life removes neither chaos nor variation from the Universe.

Taboo-XX wrote... 
This isn't moral relativism in this case. You make a choice that affects EVERYTHING and for ALL time. That is an absolutism.

What others do in the future is not my choice to interfere with. If they destroy themselves then so be it. They will have only proven Carl Sagan right.

I'm fine with letting life self-determinate - once the playing field is level.
As things are now, there is no hope. Synthetics will surpass us. Even assuming they bear us no malice, at best this means they leave us alone and go off to other galaxies to imagine new futures, while us poor stunted organics are forced to make more, and wait for those to surpass us too, ad nauseam. And when one of those flips the wrong bit, we will be powerless to stop them in the end.