410 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Life is a creation of the Universe. Interfering with it interferes with the Universe. It was always about life. Life is born from chaos.

As for Synthetics? Then we die. Plain and simple. All Synthesis does is remove an existential threat. A fear we all have. I won't interfere. Eventually new life will sprout from the vastness, unless of course you propose the Synthetics are going to bleach the Universe.

[Icinix]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

Extended cut can't come quickly enough. Speculations for everyone is the worst way to end a trilogy.

This isn't the good kind.

I agree fully.

Indeed. Moral discussions and debates of what it means to be life etc are all well and good - but needing pure speculation to fill in massive blanks does not grounds for good discussion make.

[Taboo]

What if we kill ourselves before a singularity? I find that more likely.

The Geth are dead in my playthrough. I seriously doubt the main focus of everyone will be to build synthetics simply, because, you know, we're kind of limited in the resource department.

[PsyrenY]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Life is a creation of the Universe. Interfering with it interferes with the Universe. It was always about life. Life is born from chaos.

As for Synthetics? Then we die. Plain and simple. All Synthesis does is remove an existential threat. A fear we all have. I won't interfere. Eventually new life will sprout from the vastness, unless of course you propose the Synthetics are going to bleach the Universe.

You claim to value chaos, yet you are blithely willing to allow the one outcome that will surely destroy it. Synthetics may not bleach the Universe, but they still represent perfect Order - they can follow the same directive for eternity without laziness or variation. If that directive is "kill organics," then the result is that even after wiping us out, they will dedicate themselves to ensuring organics never rise again, a worse prospect than even the Reapers. It would be like an eternity of spawn-camping, only without the ability to play something else while waiting for the other player to get bored and go watch TV.

[Taboo]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Life is a creation of the Universe. Interfering with it interferes with the Universe. It was always about life. Life is born from chaos.

As for Synthetics? Then we die. Plain and simple. All Synthesis does is remove an existential threat. A fear we all have. I won't interfere. Eventually new life will sprout from the vastness, unless of course you propose the Synthetics are going to bleach the Universe.

You claim to value chaos, yet you are blithely willing to allow the one outcome that will surely destroy it. Synthetics may not bleach the Universe, but they still represent perfect Order - they can follow the same directive for eternity without laziness or variation. If that directive is "kill organics," then the result is that even after wiping us out, they will dedicate themselves to ensuring organics never rise again, a worse prospect than even the Reapers. It would be like an eternity of spawn-camping, only without the ability to play something else while waiting for the other player to get bored and go watch TV.

I will not interfere on a galactic level, but that doesn't apply to a synthetic. They are not me. It's personal morality here, not this relavitism you keep promoting. You understand how laughed at that is in philosophy circles? That this is the reason the Synthesis fans on the site are so few? Few believe such nonsense. People had one goal, to destroy the Reapers. They won't change now for something like Synthesis.

If one doesn't believe the Star Child, one has no reason to believe anything his says has validity. He is the only one who makes such claims and he does so in less than 140 characters. This isn't a tweet from your girlfriend, it's about the future of the Universe. What a loud of bollocks the presentation is, I wouldn't believe him if he put a gun to Shepard's head, he has no bearing on anything. For all you know he could be a crazed machine. 

The presentation is so poor people can't even reach a consensus as to why he's there.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 01 juin 2012 - 01:51 .

[Vigilant111]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Life is a creation of the Universe. Interfering with it interferes with the Universe. It was always about life. Life is born from chaos.

As for Synthetics? Then we die. Plain and simple. All Synthesis does is remove an existential threat. A fear we all have. I won't interfere. Eventually new life will sprout from the vastness, unless of course you propose the Synthetics are going to bleach the Universe.

You claim to value chaos, yet you are blithely willing to allow the one outcome that will surely destroy it. Synthetics may not bleach the Universe, but they still represent perfect Order - they can follow the same directive for eternity without laziness or variation. If that directive is "kill organics," then the result is that even after wiping us out, they will dedicate themselves to ensuring organics never rise again, a worse prospect than even the Reapers. It would be like an eternity of spawn-camping, only without the ability to play something else while waiting for the other player to get bored and go watch TV.

Perfect order? synthetics are created by people, they are not perfect, intrinsically flawed even, no matter how much they upgrade

Worse prospect? u r being overly paranoid, could there be any better enemy than the reapers themselves?

and what is ur hesititation in taking destroy option anyway?

Too much chaos, life is threathened but to end all chaos, is to end all life

Modifié par Vigilant111, 01 juin 2012 - 01:56 .

[Taboo]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Life is a creation of the Universe. Interfering with it interferes with the Universe. It was always about life. Life is born from chaos.

As for Synthetics? Then we die. Plain and simple. All Synthesis does is remove an existential threat. A fear we all have. I won't interfere. Eventually new life will sprout from the vastness, unless of course you propose the Synthetics are going to bleach the Universe.

You claim to value chaos, yet you are blithely willing to allow the one outcome that will surely destroy it. Synthetics may not bleach the Universe, but they still represent perfect Order - they can follow the same directive for eternity without laziness or variation. If that directive is "kill organics," then the result is that even after wiping us out, they will dedicate themselves to ensuring organics never rise again, a worse prospect than even the Reapers. It would be like an eternity of spawn-camping, only without the ability to play something else while waiting for the other player to get bored and go watch TV.

Perfect order? synthetics are created by people, they are not perfect, intrinsically flawed even, no matter how much they upgrade

Worse prospect? u r being overly paranoid, could there be any better enemy than the reapers themselves?

and what is ur hesititation in taking destroy option anyway?

Too much chaos, life is threathened but to end all chaos, is to end all life

As I have stated time and TIME again. All Synthesis is is a way to remove an existential fear. That's what transhumanism is as well. You want to transcend your body because you're afraid of dying.

It is rooted in PRIMAL emotions.

[PsyrenY]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I will not interfere on a galactic level, but that doesn't apply to a synthetic. They are not me. It's personal morality here, not this relavitism you keep promoting. You understand how laughed at that is in philosophy circles? That this is the reason the Synthesis fans on the site are so few? Few believe such nonsense. People had one goal, to destroy the Reapers. They won't change now for something like Synthesis.

If one doesn't believe the Star Child, one has no reason to believe anything his says has validity. He is the only one who makes such claims and he does so in less than 140 characters. This isn't a tweet from your girlfriend, it's about the future of the Universe. What a loud of bollocks the presentation is, I wouldn't believe him if he put a gun to Shepard's head, he has no bearing on anything. For all you know he could be a crazed machine. 

The presentation is so poor people can't even reach a consensus as to why he's there.

How few supporters Synthesis has relative to the other two is irrelevant to my consideration of it (ad populum fallacy anyway.) The brevity of the Catalyst's argument didn't matter either - though I would have of course preferred the leaked-script wording as you are well aware, I was still able to get the gist of his beliefs from the release version.

You haven't addressed my point yet either - if an AI were to decide to wipe out organics, and succeeded in defeating the advanced ones, who would stop it? The only reason we stood a chance against the Reapers is because they leave for  long periods of time.

I agree with you that the presentation was poor - something I hope EC addresses - but the underlying concept is still worthy of exploration.

[Vigilant111]

Taboo-XX wrote...

As I have stated time and TIME again. All Synthesis is is a way to remove an existential fear. That's what transhumanism is as well. You want to transcend your body because you're afraid of dying.

It is rooted in PRIMAL emotions.

so synthesis supports think that synthesis is sure bet for immortality?

don't say primal (authentic, real) emotions, say PRIMITIVE (inferior, uncultured) needs... primal sometimes can be ... sexy

Modifié par Vigilant111, 01 juin 2012 - 02:12 .

[Varus Praetor]

Stagnation is worse than death.  Better to go out swinging.  Synthesis is still the worst ending.

[Seryl]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seryl wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Synthetics will have a level of intelligence above humans.

Can you elaborate on this?

They will comprehend and understand more than any human ever will at their most basic level. Their capacity for learning and developing knew intellectual theories will far surpass us. 

Think Stephen Hawking. He's one of the pinnacles of raw knowledge and scientific understanding, but he's the absolute brightest of us all. 

After a singularity hits, AI's will be smarter than him just by their nature. 

All theoretical of course, we wont truly know the effects until we're on the other side of the event horizon. 

It certainly does not always cause synthetics to want to kill us all, by accident, apathy, or due to other motivations. It might, but it's never something to be concerned about.  

That's what I thought you meant. Without going into an entire debate on the subject, I have doubts that that will come to pass. Even if it does, I expect to be reduced to dust long before it happens.

[Taboo]

Then that's the way it is. Life will still exist in other areas of the Universe. What's to stop Synthesized beings from creating AI?

An AI will become self limiting though, as they are not substrate dependent. It will progress and stop because it will no longer be able to take in new information. The Catalyst has had his system in place for millions of years and hasn't changed. New variables have been created and he doesn't factor them in. I don't believe anything he says. He has all the believability of a Bigfoot enthusiast to me. He is the only one who presents information. That isn't how science works.

What I haven't seen addressed either, is whether or not Synthetics are substrate dependent. If they are, they are like humans and have no limit, if not they too will eventually stop because their "evolution" is based on data.

[ReXspec]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Life is a creation of the Universe. Interfering with it interferes with the Universe. It was always about life. Life is born from chaos.

As for Synthetics? Then we die. Plain and simple. All Synthesis does is remove an existential threat. A fear we all have. I won't interfere. Eventually new life will sprout from the vastness, unless of course you propose the Synthetics are going to bleach the Universe.

You claim to value chaos, yet you are blithely willing to allow the one outcome that will surely destroy it. Synthetics may not bleach the Universe, but they still represent perfect Order - they can follow the same directive for eternity without laziness or variation. If that directive is "kill organics," then the result is that even after wiping us out, they will dedicate themselves to ensuring organics never rise again, a worse prospect than even the Reapers. It would be like an eternity of spawn-camping, only without the ability to play something else while waiting for the other player to get bored and go watch TV.

Perfect order? synthetics are created by people, they are not perfect, intrinsically flawed even, no matter how much they upgrade

Worse prospect? u r being overly paranoid, could there be any better enemy than the reapers themselves?

and what is ur hesititation in taking destroy option anyway?

Too much chaos, life is threathened but to end all chaos, is to end all life

As I have stated time and TIME again. All Synthesis is is a way to remove an existential fear. That's what transhumanism is as well. You want to transcend your body because you're afraid of dying.

It is rooted in PRIMAL emotions.

...which is why it is colored by exceedingly cynical emotions and logic that "humans are the real monster" or "ape cannot kill ape" (as TAO so aptly put).  In my limited experience, people in TS and Synthesis circles genuinely have a sort of disdain for mankind as a whole.  They think we are little more than tainted, flawed, vicious monsters and would rather subscribe to the belief that machines are "perfect."  As such, the machines malevolence reflects the malevolence of the creators by turning into genocidal machines with the exceedingly cynical view that humans are worthless, chaotic, evil meatbags that must be cleansed from the universe.

I swear, that concept is so over-troped, it's mind-boggling to think that sci-fi in general keeps going back to that garbage logic over and over again.

Modifié par ReXspec, 01 juin 2012 - 02:11 .

[Taboo]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

As I have stated time and TIME again. All Synthesis is is a way to remove an existential fear. That's what transhumanism is as well. You want to transcend your body because you're afraid of dying.

It is rooted in PRIMAL emotions.

so synthesis supports think that synthesis is sure bet for immortality?

don't say primal (authentic, real) emotions, say PRIMITIVE (inferior, uncultured) needs... primal sometimes can be ... sexy

Destroy functions on the same logic. We are animals, the old brain still has power over us. In fact, it's the most likely cause of my Obesessive Compulsive Disorder.

[Nykara]

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

I just don't like the fact that Bioware takes a huge crap all over evolution.

Evolution takes many millennia.

Not that I agree in the Synthesis ending but isn't that basically what had been happening? Each cycle the forumla for Synthesis was worked on by the races until eventually one came along who was able to complete it. Was there even mention of how long these cycles have been going on for? That is a form of evolution, even if it is more technolgy then biology.

Either way it is still a crappy ending. I'd rather just be me, thanks!

[ReXspec]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Destroy functions on the same logic. We are animals, the old brain still has power over us. In fact, it's the most likely cause of my Obesessive Compulsive Disorder.

I would equate that as being less "animal" and more sapient creatures with instinct.  Instinct still serves a purpose, but it does not define us as humans.  We are not animals.  We are human.

[Reptilian Rob]

>Synthesis.

[ReXspec]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

>Synthesis.

[Terrifying snip]

 

This picture scares me... ._.

[Vigilant111]

Nykara wrote...

Dude_in_the_Room wrote...

I just don't like the fact that Bioware takes a huge crap all over evolution.

Evolution takes many millennia.

Not that I agree in the Synthesis ending but isn't that basically what had been happening? Each cycle the forumla for Synthesis was worked on by the races until eventually one came along who was able to complete it. Was there even mention of how long these cycles have been going on for? That is a form of evolution, even if it is more technolgy then biology.

Either way it is still a crappy ending. I'd rather just be me, thanks!

No, there is no such thing as completion, not in the large picture anyway, u can stop the evolution trend here, but somewhere else evolution arises, reapers cannot overcome nature, hence the cycles

[Taboo]

I could effectively destroy AIDS by killing everyone with it or removing them from the planet.

Guess what though? All it takes is one mutation of the Primate Immuno Deficiency Virus and a case of Zoonosis and we're in the same ****hole again.

The problem will always come back, but predicting it is impossible.

[Reptilian Rob]

ReXspec wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

>Synthesis.

[Terrifying snip]

 

This picture scares me... ._.

Good, it should. 

[In Exile]

The thing that makes ME really stupid (and synthesis by extension) is the very comical lack of knowledge of the designers (and fans, really) of (i) cognitive science and AI; and (ii) biology.

Life - to solve the informational constraints we deal with - has a lot of convergence, as it turns out. Most of the ideas about AI come from a time period whose theories about competing are largely rejected (in the sense that we built **** that proved it wrong).

Synthetics may not bleach the Universe, but they still represent perfect Order - they can follow the same directive for eternity without laziness or variation.

Like this. That doesn't work for a host of reasons. It's just pure nonsense.

[CamlTowPetttingZoo]

mass perfection wrote...

DeamonSlaz wrote...

Synthesis is a cop out. It is the middle ground that allows you to see Joker and EDI have a happy face. However, no one else. I can see the Geth being a little irate about being given human flesh and what of the reapers themselves?

All three endings felt completely alien to the entire game. How at the very end, Sheppard is about to 'activate' the Catalyst and then he's peacefully elevated up to the Star Child, who just so happens to be the entire Citadel. We are then told: You have been playing a Game, Sheppard. Some one has been controlling you, telling you what to do, and remember that time you didn't want to punch Emily Wong, but you felt compelled, well you were under control. Now that same person is going to choose based on their own perspective of what should happen and oh by the way, you get to die and be the biggest war criminal known to mankind. So you ready?

I swear the ending is jsut so shoe horned. It does not fit. Everything up to Cerebus was awesome and then its: FULL ON EARTH STRIKE CAUSE WE AINT READY BUT WE ARE!

Anyone else get the feeling we were 3/4 of the way in and somehow the last 1/4 got eaten by a Thresher Maw?

I hate all three but Synthesis solves the problem that doesn't belong in the ME universe and I only chose because it offers the most advancement and makes Reapers potential allies and I like to role play as a peacemaker making peace between everything.

Allies against who?

[Taboo]

Lots of things about Synthesis don't make sense.

I'm shooting the damn pipe.

PROBLEM WALTERS?

[CamlTowPetttingZoo]

Didn't Synthesis happen in Javik's cycle with that race that combined themselves with machines to fix some problem that was threatening them and the synthetic part took over and started killing everything? Or is that something different?