410 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Nothing makes sense. I seriously doubt that Walters knows what's going on.

The fail is so massive.

[Sisterofshane]

CamlTowPetttingZoo wrote...

Didn't Synthesis happen in Javik's cycle with that race that combined themselves with machines to fix some problem that was threatening them and the synthetic part took over and started killing everything? Or is that something different?

From what I can surmise, no.  I think we can liken The Zha'til more to David being "interfaced" with the VI - only they were AI's instead.  They then pretty much turned the organic material into whatever they wanted it be.

From what we were shown in the Synthesis ending, everyone pretty much retains who they are after the change has been forced upon them.

[Taboo]

The singularity was added to destroy because without it more people would pick it.

I live for today and choose to benefit those around TODAY.

Shoot the pipe.

[Big I]

You know the problem with synthesis? It's dealing with the wrong problem.


Not counting Reaper invasions there have been three wars between synthetics and organics in 50,000 years - the geth vs the quarians, the zha'til vs the zha, and the protheans vs the metacons (the "metacon war" Javik mentions once). In that same period there have been countless wars between organics; the Rachni War, the Krogan Rebellions, the First Contact War, the turian Unification War, every war ever fought on Earth, etc. More organics were killed by other organics than were ever killed by synthetics (not counting the Reapers).


Coming out at the end of the game and saying that "we must stop the war between organics and synthetics" makes as much sense as saying "we must stop the war between turians and humans." Sure there was conflict in the past, but does that mean every future interaction will lead to war?


There is only one character in the game (apart from the Catalyst) who argues that war between synthetics and organics is inevitable - Javik. I remember reading an EA interview where they said that 40% of people who bought ME3 bought From Ashes, which means the other 60% have no one talking about the fundamental differences between them until the last 10 minutes of the game.

[Catamantaloedis]

The Reapers come in before synthetics advance to the point where they outclass organics and thus are able to wipe them all out, so you can't use the wars in which synthetics did not wipe out organics as evidence that they will not wipe out organics eventually. Presumably, this is all based on the Catalyst's observations over billions of years before it used the Reapers to begin reaping.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 01 juin 2012 - 03:07 .

[Taboo]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Reapers come in before synthetics advance to the point where they outclass organics and thus are able to wipe them all out, so you can't use the wars in which synthetics did not wipe out organics as evidence that they will not wipe out organics eventually. Presumably, this is all based on the Catalyst's observations over billions of years before it used the Reapers to begin reaping.

Or he was created by someone and went mad. That's also a possibility.

He doesn't have billions of years of research because if what he wants to prevent had happened would have removed him as well.

[InHarmsWay]

Hearing the phrase "the final step of evolution" and "apex of evolution" made me pick destroy right away. Anyone with a basic understanding of evolution will realize that those two phrases are completely and utter bull ****. There is no final stage of evolution. There is no apex. If what the Catalyst claims is true, then that means that no life (everything from humans to microbes) can no longer adapt. Without the ability of adaptation, life will die out because it is unable to adapt to changes within its environment. A plague could wipe everyone out. Considering that everything is part machine, a computer virus could wipe us out.

I refuse to accept bad science.

[DJBare]

Admiral Anderson: they use the beam to transport people alive or dead to the citadel.

Admiral Anderson: Do you think they are making another reaper?
Shepard: sound reasonable, they transport the bodies up here for processing.

Shepard, ooh look another beam, I'm going to jump into it.

Just saying.

[Catamantaloedis]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

The Reapers come in before synthetics advance to the point where they outclass organics and thus are able to wipe them all out, so you can't use the wars in which synthetics did not wipe out organics as evidence that they will not wipe out organics eventually. Presumably, this is all based on the Catalyst's observations over billions of years before it used the Reapers to begin reaping.

Or he was created by someone and went mad. That's also a possibility.

He doesn't have billions of years of research because if what he wants to prevent had happened would have removed him as well.

No proof for the first.

And we don't know the origin of the Catalyst. It could literally be a space god for all we know.

[DJBare]

Catamantaloedis wrote...
No proof for the first.

And we don't know the origin of the Catalyst. It could literally be a space god for all we know.

Viewing them with awe?, you are almost there, your indoctrination will soon be complete.

[Catamantaloedis]

Not at all. Although I dont find you reaching such a conclusion all that surprising.

I'm simply stating the facts as related to us in the game.

The Catalyst says that synthetics inevitably destroy organics, so it sends in the Reapers before this happens. Therefore you can't use events where the Reapers destroyed organics before synthetics did as evidence that the synthetics wouldn't have wiped them out eventually anyway.

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Look at any domecicated animal or planet...It can.

Selective breeding, a basic form of genetic engineering, is not evolution. 

And the reapers are forcing evolution by making every advance life into reapers.

What does their phrase"Asension throught distruction" mean?

Listen to harbinger in ME2 and it's clear their intetions is to force evolution.

Nope. 

Evolution can't be forced, it is by nature a natural process based on the concept of random mutations. 

What the Reapers do is not 'evolution', they are killing everyone and forcing them to become Reapers. 

If I kill you and use your bones as a house, are you evolving? 

That's still evolution...
And yes it can be forced.

[Big I]

Catamantaloedis wrote...
The Catalyst says that synthetics inevitably destroy organics, so it sends in the Reapers before this happens. Therefore you can't use events where the Reapers destroyed organics before synthetics did as evidence that the synthetics wouldn't have wiped them out eventually anyway.

Why not? Unless the Catalyst has actually seen a galactic extinction caused by synthetics his argument is purely theoretical. In the two thousand year history of the current Citadel government there has been 1 synthetic uprising that confined itself to one homeworld/species, two major galaxy devastating wars (Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellions), and numerous smaller conflicts (First Contact War, Skyllian Blitz, etc). The geth and blue box AIs were not interested in exterminating organic life.

[dreman9999]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Not at all. Although I dont find you reaching such a conclusion all that surprising.

I'm simply stating the facts as related to us in the game.

The Catalyst says that synthetics inevitably destroy organics, so it sends in the Reapers before this happens. Therefore you can't use events where the Reapers destroyed organics before synthetics did as evidence that the synthetics wouldn't have wiped them out eventually anyway.

Did you even try to understand why synthetic would want to destroy organics?

[dreman9999]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
The Catalyst says that synthetics inevitably destroy organics, so it sends in the Reapers before this happens. Therefore you can't use events where the Reapers destroyed organics before synthetics did as evidence that the synthetics wouldn't have wiped them out eventually anyway.

Why not? Unless the Catalyst has actually seen a galactic extinction caused by synthetics his argument is purely theoretical. In the two thousand year history of the current Citadel government there has been 1 synthetic uprising that confined itself to one homeworld/species, two major galaxy devastating wars (Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellions), and numerous smaller conflicts (First Contact War, Skyllian Blitz, etc). The geth and blue box AIs were not interested in exterminating organic life.

Wait a sec....We don't know that he did see it. What if this is the same case of the krogan and the genopharge?
The real problem here is that the reapers are not here to debate it...Just to impose their beliefs. They have all the info that would prove their point but not want to explain one bit of it to being they think are bactrira.

[Catamantaloedis]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...
The Catalyst says that synthetics inevitably destroy organics, so it sends in the Reapers before this happens. Therefore you can't use events where the Reapers destroyed organics before synthetics did as evidence that the synthetics wouldn't have wiped them out eventually anyway.

Why not? Unless the Catalyst has actually seen a galactic extinction caused by synthetics his argument is purely theoretical. In the two thousand year history of the current Citadel government there has been 1 synthetic uprising that confined itself to one homeworld/species, two major galaxy devastating wars (Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellions), and numerous smaller conflicts (First Contact War, Skyllian Blitz, etc). The geth and blue box AIs were not interested in exterminating organic life.

You say 2000 years as if that's a long time. The Reapers themselves have been around for millions, if not billions of years, and the Catalyst, being their leader, is likely older than they. It has a wealth of history to choose from which is not available in the game.

You can either trust that what the Catalyst says is true, or you can make up whatever the hell you want.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 01 juin 2012 - 04:07 .

[FOX216BC]

mass perfection wrote...


 When Mr.Kaku said that merging with the machines will make us like the gods and we'll evolve beyond human standards means the Starchild was correct when he said Synthesis is the final evolution of life.

"Make us like gods"? This is a recipe for disaster.

And Starbrat he's dead wrong.
Because EVOLUTION IS CONSTANT.

Synthesis and control is not what Shepard had in mind during the entire MEseries.
Otherwise his name would have been Saren or T.I.M. (and i do not mean it in the IT context)NOT SHEPARD.

Once more EVOLUTION IS CONSTANT, their is no final step.

[mass perfection]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The singularity was added to destroy because without it more people would pick it.

I live for today and choose to benefit those around TODAY.

Shoot the pipe.

Grab the rods.

[mass perfection]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The singularity was added to destroy because without it more people would pick it.

I live for today and choose to benefit those around TODAY.

Shoot the pipe.

Jump into the beam.

[Big I]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...
Why not? Unless the Catalyst has actually seen a galactic extinction caused by synthetics his argument is purely theoretical. In the two thousand year history of the current Citadel government there has been 1 synthetic uprising that confined itself to one homeworld/species, two major galaxy devastating wars (Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellions), and numerous smaller conflicts (First Contact War, Skyllian Blitz, etc). The geth and blue box AIs were not interested in exterminating organic life.

You say 2000 years as if that's a long time. The Reapers themselves have been around for millions, if not billions of years, and the Catalyst, being their leader, is likely older than they. It has a wealth of history to choose from which is not available in the game.

You can either trust that what the Catalyst says is true, or you can make up whatever the hell you want.

2000 years IS a long time. The fact that the history of the Reapers is longer is irrelevant unless they have seen, during that time, a race of synthetics rise up and eradicate all life in the galaxy. If they haven't seen that happen, or seen it almost happen, their argument is backed up only by theory.


The Reapers themselves are the greatest threat to the galaxy, no doubt about that. Aside from them, in the two periods of history we know about (the past 2000 years and what Javik told us about his time) organics have faced a greater threat from other organics than they have from synthetics.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
That's still evolution...

Selective breeding, a basic form of genetic engineering, is not evolution.

Unless you actually want to make an argument or well reasoned point to back up your claim then your objection is irrelevant. 

And yes it can be forced.

Make a case for it then. 

[The Night Mammoth]

CamlTowPetttingZoo wrote...

Didn't Synthesis happen in Javik's cycle with that race that combined themselves with machines to fix some problem that was threatening them and the synthetic part took over and started killing everything? Or is that something different?

It did. The Zha used synthetics and cybernetics to improve themselve, and lived peacefully. 

Well, until the Reapers subjugated the symbiotic AI's to their will, who then went on to kill off the organic parts of their bodies and eradicate the Zha, becoming a synthetic race called the Zha'til. 

The Protheans destroyed them by making their sun go supernova. 

Clever, right? The Reapers seemingly trying to acheive what they're supposed to prevent. 

[ReXspec]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Nothing makes sense. I seriously doubt that Walters knows what's going on.

The fail is so massive.

I agree that the failure was massive, but I thought it was Hudson that stood by the ending?

[Ieldra]

ReXspec wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

He's correct. Evolution doesn't take you up in some universal level of perfection or betterment or anything. All evolution does is, if you're lucky, to make you fit enough to live where you live. That's it. Contingent adaptation to local environments.

Conscious design is far better a method to improve something than to let it evolve.

We also have to understand that there are certain aspects of our lives that we cannot control.  It is up to us, however, how we can react, adapt or even regress in these situations.

And it is in our nature to reduce the aspects of our lives we cannot control. Just accepting them is not a virtue.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...
As I have stated time and TIME again. All Synthesis is is a way to remove an existential fear. That's what transhumanism is as well. You want to transcend your body because you're afraid of dying.

There is no evidence anywhere that Synthesis makes anyone immortal.

But....what if it does? Death is an insult of fate. At the moment we must live with it, but why shouldn't we find a way around it? There are practical problems, yes, but practical problems exist to be solved.

As for transcending my body, I'd rather be immortal in my own self-rejuvenating body.