410 réponses à ce sujet

[mass perfection]

Optimystic_X wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I don't see how synthesis is going to stop wars...

The Catalyst only cares about one type of conflict - synthetic vs. organic. And he isn't even trying to stop that one, he just doesn't want it to be one-sided due to a tech singularity and result in us being wiped off the galaxy.

How does Synthesis solve that?

By letting us keep up. The synthetics' superiority takes a number of forms - they can communicate nonverbally (speed of light), evolve/self-modify in moments, absolutely control their speed of propagation, take energy directly from stars instead of from inefficient digestive processes, learn new concepts in seconds, and communicate directly with the tools we rely on. Combined, these advantages allowed them to achieve technology in 300 years that the rest of the galaxy could not reach in 50,000.

Nanotechnology within us, however, could theoretically bridge all of these gaps. To be a successful solution, Synthesis must address these flaws to repair the balance of power.

But the Reapers are still here.The construction of one requires the death of billions.They each killed trillions.What if they wipe us out?They're abominations.They need to be punished and those billions of lives in them need to rest in peace.Aren't Reapers the final evolution?Synthesis is the final evolution.Reapers are part organic and synthetic.Synthesis is part organic and synthetic.

[PsyrenY]

mass perfection wrote...

But the Reapers are still here.The construction of one requires the death of billions.They each killed trillions.What if they wipe us out?

The program controlling them promised that the cycle - the killings - would end.
At that point it becomes a matter of whether you trust the Catalyst or not. Though if you do not trust it, none of the endings are any good and you may as well roll 1d3.

mass perfection wrote...
They're abominations.They need to be punished and those billions of lives in them need to rest in peace.

"“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”

mass perfection wrote... 
Aren't Reapers the final evolution?Synthesis is the final evolution.Reapers are part organic and synthetic.Synthesis is part organic and synthetic.

So is Shepard. Drawing parallels like that is easy if you keep things overly simple.

[Krunjar]

This has nothing to do with Moral relivitism.At all.

[Slayer299]

mass perfection wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I don't see how synthesis is going to stop wars...

The Catalyst only cares about one type of conflict - synthetic vs. organic. And he isn't even trying to stop that one, he just doesn't want it to be one-sided due to a tech singularity and result in us being wiped off the galaxy.

How does Synthesis solve that?

An event that hasn't happend in the last several billion years? But singularity will stop it from when it happens...sometime...eventually...down the road at some point?

[mauro2222]

Optimystic_X wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And actually, the solution lies in the geth conflict or how EDI killed everyone on Luna base.
Don't try to kill them out of fear.

You're kidding right?

EDI killed everyone on Luna by accident. She woke up during a training exercise and thought she was genuinely under attack. Can you imagine if she had access to more firepower? Would she have bombarded Earth, Skynet-style, and triggered another war before realizing the mistake?

... how does that disprove my point? She acted on defense.

[mass perfection]

Optimystic_X wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

But the Reapers are still here.The construction of one requires the death of billions.They each killed trillions.What if they wipe us out?

The program controlling them promised that the cycle - the killings - would end.
At that point it becomes a matter of whether you trust the Catalyst or not. Though if you do not trust it, none of the endings are any good and you may as well roll 1d3.

mass perfection wrote...
They're abominations.They need to be punished and those billions of lives in them need to rest in peace.

"“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”

mass perfection wrote... 
Aren't Reapers the final evolution?Synthesis is the final evolution.Reapers are part organic and synthetic.Synthesis is part organic and synthetic.

So is Shepard. Drawing parallels like that is easy if you keep things overly simple.

There is no final evolution.How does shepard adding his enrgy to the Crucible going to make everyone the final evolution? Because Shepard sure isn't the final evolution.What if some moron(s) attack the Reapers and they decide to kill them and war is declared?

[PsyrenY]

mauro2222 wrote...

... how does that disprove my point? She acted on defense.

Defense from what? No one was trying to kill her.

She killed those soldiers by accident. Accident. Now imagine if she was hooked up to the big red button, or had a fleet at her command and no way to safely reach her, or hell, imagine if she hit singularity by herself. How many would she kill before she realized it wasn't a simulation?

[Krunjar]

There isn't a child alive who wouldn't tear the world apart to find it's mummy, Trouble is this little child can! - Dr Who

The power she wields is irrelevant she was an innocent under attack according to every resource available to her at the time. That dousn't change between ai and human. I sometimes wonder if the solution to the AI problem is a kind of A.I school. Where A.I could learn to interact and intigrate with humans and would be given power/duties proportional to their achievement. Putting what is essentially a child into a position of unlimited power always seemed like a bad move in all the movies. When you create something that's alive it needs to be tested bedfore being entrusted with power and responsibility. It's always been true for us why not them? Perhaps the best AI's would become foster parents to teach the young? You know what I think theres a movie there.

Modifié par Krunjar, 02 juin 2012 - 05:26 .

[Sisterofshane]

Optimystic_X wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

... how does that disprove my point? She acted on defense.

Defense from what? No one was trying to kill her.

She killed those soldiers by accident. Accident. Now imagine if she was hooked up to the big red button, or had a fleet at her command and no way to safely reach her, or hell, imagine if she hit singularity by herself. How many would she kill before she realized it wasn't a simulation?

You would judge EDI for choices she made when she wasn't really self aware?  She was really no more sapient then a caged animal.  The problem was humanity using her in that state to run defense drills.

[ZIPO396]

Optimystic_X wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I don't see how synthesis is going to stop wars...

The Catalyst only cares about one type of conflict - synthetic vs. organic. And he isn't even trying to stop that one, he just doesn't want it to be one-sided due to a tech singularity and result in us being wiped off the galaxy.

How does Synthesis solve that?

By letting us keep up. The synthetics' superiority takes a number of forms - they can communicate nonverbally (speed of light), evolve/self-modify in moments, absolutely control their speed of propagation, take energy directly from stars instead of from inefficient digestive processes, learn new concepts in seconds, and communicate directly with the tools we rely on. Combined, these advantages allowed them to achieve technology in 300 years that the rest of the galaxy could not reach in 50,000.

Nanotechnology within us, however, could theoretically bridge all of these gaps. To be a successful solution, Synthesis must address these flaws to repair the balance of power.

Wait so what you're basically saying is. To stop us getting killed by synthetics in a potential conflict we would have to become completely synthetic to be able to fight on neutral terms? Cause as far as I can see a partly Hybrid still wouldn't be able to keep up.

[Kileyan]

Optimystic_X wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I don't see how synthesis is going to stop wars...

The Catalyst only cares about one type of conflict - synthetic vs. organic. And he isn't even trying to stop that one, he just doesn't want it to be one-sided due to a tech singularity and result in us being wiped off the galaxy.

How does Synthesis solve that?

By letting us keep up. The synthetics' superiority takes a number of forms - they can communicate nonverbally (speed of light), evolve/self-modify in moments, absolutely control their speed of propagation, take energy directly from stars instead of from inefficient digestive processes, learn new concepts in seconds, and communicate directly with the tools we rely on. Combined, these advantages allowed them to achieve technology in 300 years that the rest of the galaxy could not reach in 50,000.

Nanotechnology within us, however, could theoretically bridge all of these gaps. To be a successful solution, Synthesis must address these flaws to repair the balance of power.

So the catalyst wants to save organics from synthetics. The first step is to change what an organic is, and turn them into half machine. From your other posts, part of that is suppressing a lot of our emtions and sense of self. If sounds to me like organics are mostly dead, and little more than just a frail, flawed platform onto which superior synthetic tech can be implanted.

Lets get past that, Starkid is only doing this so we can keep up in the power struggle. So now we are keeping up, we now have two side of this conflict who are super smart, making technologic leaps quickly, and both now quickly becoming able to wipe out all organic and synthetic life.

If Starkid thought it was inevitable that synthetics would wipe out organics, how does his new plan work out? We now have everyone able to reach tech levels to utterly destroy everything, and not only that, but the organics he wanted to protect are likely, mostly much much more than half machine as the centuries pass and the weak organic parts are discarded.

Modifié par Kileyan, 02 juin 2012 - 05:33 .

[MisterJB]

mass perfection wrote...
What if some moron(s) attack the Reapers and they decide to kill them and war is declared?

How is this any different from existing relations with foreign powers? What if the turians decide to declare war?

[Slayer299]

Optimystic_X wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

... how does that disprove my point? She acted on defense.

Defense from what? No one was trying to kill her.

She killed those soldiers by accident. Accident. Now imagine if she was hooked up to the big red button, or had a fleet at her command and no way to safely reach her, or hell, imagine if she hit singularity by herself. How many would she kill before she realized it wasn't a simulation?

Accident? No. EDI states very clearly that she gained sentience when under 'attack', which would mean in the middle of a training exercise. So she was in fact, defending herself, not just wiping people out for giggles or saying to herself..."gee what a pretty red button, I wonder what this does?"

[PsyrenY]

Slayer299 wrote...

Accident? No. EDI states very clearly that she gained sentience when under 'attack', which would mean in the middle of a training exercise. So she was in fact, defending herself, not just wiping people out for giggles or saying to herself..."gee what a pretty red button, I wonder what this does?"

You know that training exercises usually don't involve lethal force, right?

(At least for humans. God knows how krogan and vorcha train.)

Sisterofshane wrote...

You would judge EDI for choices she made when she wasn't really self aware?  She was really no more sapient then a caged animal.  The problem was humanity using her in that state to run defense drills.

I'm not judging her at all. She'd be no more responsible for her actions than a child would be for pulling the wings off butterflies.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to try to help the butterflies either, though.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 02 juin 2012 - 05:43 .

[Sisterofshane]

MisterJB wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
What if some moron(s) attack the Reapers and they decide to kill them and war is declared?

How is this any different from existing relations with foreign powers? What if the turians decide to declare war?

Unless synthesis drastically stunts the Reaper's technological progress, I see this as being a very big deal.

[mass perfection]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Accident? No. EDI states very clearly that she gained sentience when under 'attack', which would mean in the middle of a training exercise. So she was in fact, defending herself, not just wiping people out for giggles or saying to herself..."gee what a pretty red button, I wonder what this does?"

You know that training exercises usually don't involve lethal force, right?

(At least for humans. God knows how krogan and vorcha train.)

Sisterofshane wrote...

You would judge EDI for choices she made when she wasn't really self aware?  She was really no more sapient then a caged animal.  The problem was humanity using her in that state to run defense drills.

I'm not judging her at all. She'd be no more responsible for her actions than a child would be for pulling the wings off butterflies.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to try to help the butterflies either, though.

Can't believe you're ignoring the dude who said hybrids will be less than full synthetics.

[PsyrenY]

ZIPO396 wrote...

Wait so what you're basically saying is. To stop us getting killed by synthetics in a potential conflict we would have to become completely synthetic to be able to fight on neutral terms? Cause as far as I can see a partly Hybrid still wouldn't be able to keep up.

"Completely synthetic?" No, those functions I listed above are pretty basic. I didn't even cover things like being able to walk around in vacuum or create backup bodies in case your first is destroyed.

But the ones I listed are definitely the minimum we'd need to compete. And nanotech in a hybrid could grant us all of them.

Kileyan wrote...

From your other posts, part of that is suppressing a lot of our emtions and sense of self.

What.

[PsyrenY]

mass perfection wrote...
Can't believe you're ignoring the dude who said hybrids will be less than full synthetics.

I answered him, see above and be patient.

Just because 4 people are typing at me doesn't mean I can type 4 times as fast, you know. (One more reason I'd be in favor of Synthesis...)

[Slayer299]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Accident? No. EDI states very clearly that she gained sentience when under 'attack', which would mean in the middle of a training exercise. So she was in fact, defending herself, not just wiping people out for giggles or saying to herself..."gee what a pretty red button, I wonder what this does?"

You know that training exercises usually don't involve lethal force, right?

(At least for humans. God knows how krogan and vorcha train.)

Sure, the VI knew that when it was a VI, but EDI just became sentient and found humans shooting at her or what was going on, so she reacted it self-defense. Just like most people who react defensively first and look/think about why/what happened after.

[mass perfection]

Optimystic_X wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Can't believe you're ignoring the dude who said hybrids will be less than full synthetics.

I answered him, see above and be patient.

Just because 4 people are typing at me doesn't mean I can type 4 times as fast, you know. (One more reason I'd be in favor of Synthesis...)

But to protect organics you're wiping them out to make hybrids.So there's only hybrids and synthetics now.

[mauro2222]

Optimystic_X wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Can't believe you're ignoring the dude who said hybrids will be less than full synthetics.

I answered him, see above and be patient.

Just because 4 people are typing at me doesn't mean I can type 4 times as fast, you know. (One more reason I'd be in favor of Synthesis...)

I'd not be so sure about that, Joker is still limping

[MisterJB]

Sisterofshane wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
What if some moron(s) attack the Reapers and they decide to kill them and war is declared?

How is this any different from existing relations with foreign powers? What if the turians decide to declare war?

Unless synthesis drastically stunts the Reaper's technological progress, I see this as being a very big deal.

Maybe so but it is not worse than the predicament humanity faced during the First Contact War.

[ZIPO396]

mass perfection wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Can't believe you're ignoring the dude who said hybrids will be less than full synthetics.

I answered him, see above and be patient.

Just because 4 people are typing at me doesn't mean I can type 4 times as fast, you know. (One more reason I'd be in favor of Synthesis...)

But to protect organics you're wiping them out to make hybrids.So there's only hybrids and synthetics now.

Yep no more organics in the end and eventually as the Synthetics change the Hyrbids would have to become complete Synthetics just to keep up so eventually no more Hybrids.

[Kileyan]

Optimystic_X wrote...

ZIPO396 wrote...

Wait so what you're basically saying is. To stop us getting killed by synthetics in a potential conflict we would have to become completely synthetic to be able to fight on neutral terms? Cause as far as I can see a partly Hybrid still wouldn't be able to keep up.

"Completely synthetic?" No, those functions I listed above are pretty basic. I didn't even cover things like being able to walk around in vacuum or create backup bodies in case your first is destroyed.

But the ones I listed are definitely the minimum we'd need to compete. And nanotech in a hybrid could grant us all of them.

Kileyan wrote...

From your other posts, part of that is suppressing a lot of our emtions and sense of self.

What.

In previous discussions in your support of synthesis, you suggest we'd be more logical less emotional.........I dunno more like the Borg or some collective?

What I am getting at, is what is the point of the Starkid preserving organics if he is first going to meld them into machine hybrids, suppress a lot of that which makes them organic/human/krogan in order to make them better. At some point, in order to keep improving they will just become more and more machine. That process would likely happen faster than the Starkids feared eventuall wiping out of all organics.

It is flawed, he is preserving organics by turning them into machines, so that they can keep up with machines:) That isn't much better than the YoDawg pic.

[xsdob]

No it's not.