410 réponses à ce sujet

[PsyrenY]

Slayer299 wrote...
Just like most people who react defensively first and look/think about why/what happened after. 

"Most people" don't use lethal force unless the danger is certain.

Machines have no remorse unless it's programmed into them.

mauro2222 wrote...

I'd not be so sure about that, Joker is still limping

Obviously, I'd interface directly with my laptop and dictate my posts to it. 

Kileyan wrote...

In previous discussions in your support of synthesis, you suggest we'd be more logical less emotional.........I dunno more like the Borg or some collective?

I suggested that with our mental capacity expanded by nanites, the portion of the population that would respond to change with suicide like a flock of startled chickens is smaller than it would be now.

The rest of your post is based on the "turning us into machines" bit so I'll wait while you revise it.

[Kileyan]

No need to revise.

If you have nano machines changing how we think, machines replacing half our body, lets look ahead 100 years or so. Exactly what organic parts would you insist on keeping as they wear out? It is only "natural" that eventually every single one of those hybrids would replace ailing and rotting organic parts with machine parts.

What would be left, some vague memory of being organic, maybe some sort of sub routine hidden in the machine brain, a small program that represents the organic brain that is long dead?

I'm just not seeing how you think we'd be continuing as hybrids, having little hybrid babies, and carrying on as a species of hybrids. It is just a short step to becoming machines, it isn't a new species, it is just some organic parts hanging on till they break down and need replaced with something more efficient.

YoDawg, I heard you feared being wiped out by synthetics, I'm going to turn you into synthetics so you can fight the synthetics that want to wipe out all organics who will no longer exist, because you are now a synthetic that is able to fight the synthetics.

Modifié par Kileyan, 02 juin 2012 - 06:22 .

[PsyrenY]

If I have the empathy and emotion of an organic, I don't mind the rest being synthetic (and within my control.)

Yo dawg, I herd u liek best of both worlds, meme over.

[Doctoglethorpe]

The form of synthesis he talked about is completely different from what occures in the game.  In the game we don't merge with synthetics into one mind, we just become partly synthetic ourselves (and all synthetics become partly organic, however that works).  That and he asks for volunteers, when ya know Shepard doesn't.  Thats the most important difference right there.  Even if the form of Synthesis in the game was like that guy explains and made some actual sense, I still wouldn't of done it on the basis that forcing everyone into it would be a horrible way of achieving it.  In fact I don't think it would even work, I think everyone would just go insane.  Its the kind of thing that species need to actually achieve on their own, to grow into, not just be forced into.  What if you uplifted an ant into the mind of a human, you think that ****er would function properly?  No, it would be completely overwhelmed by the sudden drastic increase in its on abilities of thought and change of its perspective of the world it exists in.  Just look at what happened to David Archer in the Overlord DLC.  Do none of the synthesis suppoters remember that mission?  Poor bastard went insane.  And he was a volenteer!  If he was unprepared for it when he knew it was coming then think of how much worse it would of been if he hadn't. 

[Ieldra]

Doctor Moustache wrote...
The form of synthesis he talked about is completely different from what occures in the game.  In the game we don't merge with synthetics into one mind, we just become partly synthetic ourselves (and all synthetics become partly organic, however that works).  That and he asks for volunteers, when ya know Shepard doesn't.  Thats the most important difference right there.  Even if the form of Synthesis in the game was like that guy explains and made some actual sense, I still wouldn't of done it on the basis that forcing everyone into it would be a horrible way of achieving it.  In fact I don't think it would even work, I think everyone would just go insane.  Its the kind of thing that species need to actually achieve on their own, to grow into, not just be forced into.  What if you uplifted an ant into the mind of a human, you think that ****er would function properly?  No, it would be completely overwhelmed by the sudden drastic increase in its on abilities of thought and change of its perspective of the world it exists in.  Just look at what happened to David Archer in the Overlord DLC.  Do none of the synthesis suppoters remember that mission?  Poor bastard went insane.  And he was a volenteer!  If he was unprepared for it when he knew it was coming then think of how much worse it would of been if he hadn't.

Can you tell me whose interpretation you're talking about? I am unaware of an interpretation that says synthetic and organic minds will be merged.

[Jassu1979]

ALL three mass effect games pretty much embraced the theme of "strength through diversity": homogeneity has been portrayed as the ultimate weakness, a guaranteed dead-end street towards stagnation and dissolution.

Furthermore, throughout most of Me2 and ME3, synthetics have not only been shown to be far from universally murderous logic machines trying to bring "order" to the chaos of organic life, and the genocidal geth we met in ME1 were retconned as "heretics", while the Quarian exodus was mostly self-inflicted as per ME3.

In short: synthesis is not only NOT the only (or best) solution, it violates pretty much everything the ME-series stands for, advocating homogeneity and a "final step in evolution", based on tech that's just being handed down as a sort of divine gift.

[Ieldra]

Ah, the old "Synthesis will make everyone the same" argument again. Not true. Post-Synthesis species will be as different from each other as pre-Synthesis ones. Just watch the Normandy scene.

Also, the bad writing masks that this isn't supposed to be a solution to your regular "we can't get along" problem. It is about power dynamics, and one "domain of consciousness" (Jaik) getting so powerful that the other can't keep up and will slowly fade away because it's increasingly confined.

"Strength through diversity" only applies if the diverse factions are approximately equal in power, give or take an order of magnitude, and have a minimum of respect and empathy for each other. Post-singularity synthetics are not likely to have any of that, and will be immeasurably more powerful. That's the premise of the whole setup anyway, hidden as it is under all the nonsense and bad writing.

[The Night Mammoth]

Optimystic_X wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And actually, the solution lies in the geth conflict or how EDI killed everyone on Luna base.
Don't try to kill them out of fear.

You're kidding right?

EDI killed everyone on Luna by accident. She woke up during a training exercise and thought she was genuinely under attack. Can you imagine if she had access to more firepower? Would she have bombarded Earth, Skynet-style, and triggered another war before realizing the mistake?

Nope. 

[Jassu1979]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ah, the old "Synthesis will make everyone the same" argument again. Not true. Post-Synthesis species will be as different from each other as pre-Synthesis ones. Just watch the Normandy scene.

Oh Lord, the Normandy scene! What exactly *do* you think happened to EDI, considering that she wasn't identical with Eva's body, but only used it as a platform while most of her consciousness remained in the Normandy's AI core?
All of a sudden, her consciousness is supposedly trapped in a semi-fleshy body?
And how exactly *did* that body acquire biological properties?(On second thought, let's leave the aspect of "magic instead of science" aside, though, and focus on the storytelling as such.)

"Strength through diversity" only applies if the diverse factions are approximately equal in power, give or take an order of magnitude, and have a minimum of respect and empathy for each other. Post-singularity synthetics are not likely to have any of that, and will be immeasurably more powerful. That's the premise of the whole setup anyway, hidden as it is under all the nonsense and bad writing.

When galactic civilization reaches the technological singularity, they *will* be capable of finding a solution of their own.
The catalyst's deterministic line of argument doesn't work: there's ALWAYS another way.

Mordin Solus describes what makes the Collector's so horrifying, and it's basically what's so problematic about synthesis, too.
Technological advances happen in response to a challenge: you need to catch prey? Sharpen a stick. You need to keep warm? Learn how to make a fire.
Synthesis operates more along the lines of divine intervention. It cripples culture rather than advances it, more so than the mass relays ever did. (And they were intended to straightjacket the organic races, too.)

Just because post-synthesis krogans will look differently from post-synthesis humans does not eliminate all of the problems inherent to this society.

Personally, I see this freely offered solution as nothing but a trick to lull you into cooperating with the reapers - just like Saren did.

[Doctoglethorpe]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Doctor Moustache wrote...
The form of synthesis he talked about is completely different from what occures in the game.  In the game we don't merge with synthetics into one mind, we just become partly synthetic ourselves (and all synthetics become partly organic, however that works).  That and he asks for volunteers, when ya know Shepard doesn't.  Thats the most important difference right there.  Even if the form of Synthesis in the game was like that guy explains and made some actual sense, I still wouldn't of done it on the basis that forcing everyone into it would be a horrible way of achieving it.  In fact I don't think it would even work, I think everyone would just go insane.  Its the kind of thing that species need to actually achieve on their own, to grow into, not just be forced into.  What if you uplifted an ant into the mind of a human, you think that ****er would function properly?  No, it would be completely overwhelmed by the sudden drastic increase in its on abilities of thought and change of its perspective of the world it exists in.  Just look at what happened to David Archer in the Overlord DLC.  Do none of the synthesis suppoters remember that mission?  Poor bastard went insane.  And he was a volenteer!  If he was unprepared for it when he knew it was coming then think of how much worse it would of been if he hadn't.

Can you tell me whose interpretation you're talking about? I am unaware of an interpretation that says synthetic and organic minds will be merged.

Um.. the guy in OPs video. 

[Jassu1979]

Is synthesis a viable (or even the prefered) solution in case of a technological singularity?
Possibly, and certainly better than trying to commit genocide against either synthetic or organic life.

Is synthesis as it is presented in ME3's ending a viable (let alone the best) solution? Hell, no!
The way it is offered, the way it is implemented - absolutely everything about it is wrong.