228 réponses à ce sujet

[Raptor2k1]

Heh, I dont' see why inflitrators are the issue... Shouldn't Adrenaline Rush, fully buffed out turn this thing into a mobile howitzer with rapid reload on human soldiers?

[Taritu]

A clean suggestion. I'm sorry, a gun that has more base damage than the Black Widow (an ultra rare) and also has an AOE has issues. Big issues. The people who never want anything nerfed make games just as boring as the people who want everything nerfed.

[ArkkAngel007]

Raptor2k1 wrote...

Heh, I dont' see why inflitrators are the issue... Shouldn't Adrenaline Rush, fully buffed out turn this thing into a mobile howitzer with rapid reload on human soldiers?

It probably would come to think of it, and there lies the rub.  Fix an exploit, another will pop up.  Nerf something, another thing becomes OP.  Buff something, and something becomes too weak.

I don't think most who don't want a nerf on here hate nerfs in general, they just hate that most of the weapons in the game have been nerfed or were designed considerably underpowered while BioWare continues to buff enemy stats and waves.

I love a challenge when I have time for it.  The problem is, for those of us who are out of grade school and have a lot of responsibilities and commitments that take us everywhere but where we want to be, we can't always sink the time for a mega-challenge or, on the flip-side, continuous boring acts with less than minimal rewards versus resources spent (aka time).  

The Krysae should get looked over, but it shouldn't result in classes or playstyles being excluded.  Start small.  If it doesn't work, then do big changes.  That was what went wrong with the Falcon.  BioWare made a huge change, and now it's a rather meh weapon in an even meh'er weapons class.

[scheherazade]

My krysae X is par with my BW I.

Where is the problem here?

-scheherazade

[xabkish]

Raptor2k1 wrote...

Heh, I dont' see why inflitrators are the issue... Shouldn't Adrenaline Rush, fully buffed out turn this thing into a mobile howitzer with rapid reload on human soldiers?

Infiltrators are more of an issue because of the nature of TC6 SR Damage bonus combined with the big addtive TC bonus. AR buff is the only big damage bonus on soldiers and it's additive. Reload feature is neat, really, but it's different from bonus damage: you'll use more ammo, you'll have to shoot more rounds which takes more time.

And on damage again: Soldier with AR speced into damage won't be able to one shot Assault Troopers even with Krysae X, not without consumables (or at least new Gear, if my assumption that it's multiplicative is correct — UPD: I've conducted some basic tests and it looks like I was wrong, it's additive, both power and weapon amps).

It is a great weapon with remarkable crowd control potential when used on Human soldier, a really decent gun. It is a good weapon on anything else, really good. But because of its insane qualities on Infiltrators I'm afraid it's going to face a nerf and Grimy's idea is brilliant because it will save the gun for every other class and make it a very viable option for non-sniping Infiltrator instead of flat nerf we're so afraid of.

Modifié par xabkish, 31 mai 2012 - 08:36 .

[StarStruck010]

 [quote]ArkkAngel007 wrote...

[quote]StarStruck010 wrote...

[quote]ArkkAngel007 wrote...

[quote]Immortal Strife wrote...
Snip

[/quote]

I still think by fixing the inconsistent AoE (which shouldn't be more damaging than a direct hit) and weighing the weapon down, it will solve enough issues.  Will it still be powerful?  Yes, but in a more contained and controlled manner than the fire-and-forget weapon it seems to currently be.  There does need to be a decent crowd control weapon, especially considering mob types such as Marauders, Centurions, and the majority of Geth.  I don't want a be-all-end-all weapon, but it would be nice to have something that is for once effective from the get go.  

Infiltrators, while powerful, can be easily trumped on a scoreboard if that's really a concern.  Just like NovaGuards, Turian Sentinals, and Asari Adepts.  Not that it should matter.
[/quote] 

Weighing it down only means that I cannot use it on my engineer. My weapons geared soldier and sentinel will still be good with it, and my (non-objective) infiltrator will still be a golden god.The problem is that this is the Be-all-end-all weapon because it remains a sniper rifle. My weapons geared characters will carry this and a Harrier or a Shotgun (Graal if host, Claymore if not). My infiltrators will carry this and an SMG that ULM works on. My engineers will carry this. My Adepts will still carry the Carnifex, and it doesn't really affect my Vanguards.

[quote]A Wild Snorlax wrote...

[quote]StarStruck010 wrote...

[quote]A Wild Snorlax wrote...
Take the most OP guns at the moment, then look at random lobbies and see how much they're being used. Personally I have a hard time pointing out one gun that's noticably more overused than the others. I see a lot of widows, black widows and carnifexes, but there's still a lot of weapon variety in lobbies and those aren't even the best weapons imo. The GPS and claymore are in my book, but outside of people from this forum I don't see them being used much.
[/quote] 

I've not been in a random lobby in the last week where the power-spamming class (AA, HSe, etc) hasn't been using the Carnifex (unless they didn't haveone then they used Phalanx [unless they didn't have one then they used Preadator])

[/quote]
That's why I mentioned it. So what though,  a carnifex does around the same DPS as a phalanx, it's distinctly worse than a leveled  Paladin or Talon, and certain casters like engineers and drell adepts are at least vs cerberus and maybe geth better off with a stagger weapon like the falcon, gps or krysae.

Variety is what keeps this game fun. More good weapons to choose from = more fun, for me at least.

Having to choose between a black widow and a valiant if I want to snipe on a non salarian is hardly interesting. Nerf the Krysae(they've allready nerfed the kishock) and that's what I'm left with, actually it's really just the black widow though.
[/quote]

My point was that I'm not seeing the variety you see (excluding players that I pick up 15+ times a game as they are the "I don't know and don't care, I'm having fun" crowd, which is fine but preferably not in my gold games). In my gold games anyone that cares about cooldowns has 185%+ i.e. carnifex+smg+ulm(broken) and anyone that sort-of cares about cooldowns is using the Graal/GPS/Mattock/Paladin and anyone that doesn't care is using the BW/Widow/Claymore/etc. Well until I found this gun. The Krysae is my goto gun now. I just warmed up on a FWBGG on my Decoy-bot level14 engineer, and I pulled down 80+k points, the top score was 95ish-k points and he was also using it (he was a level 20 female quarian infiltrator so I'm not surprised he beat me).

EDIT:  
[quote]xabkish wrote...

[quote]Raptor2k1 wrote...

Heh, I dont' see why inflitrators are the issue... Shouldn't Adrenaline Rush, fully buffed out turn this thing into a mobile howitzer with rapid reload on human soldiers?
[/quote]

Infiltrators are more of an issue because of the nature of TC6 SR Damage bonus combined with the big addtive TC bonus. AR buff is the only big damage bonus on soldiers and it's additive. Reload feature is neat, really, but it's different from bonus damage: you'll use more ammo, you'll have to shoot more rounds which takes more time.

And on damage again: Soldier with AR speced into damage won't be able to one shot Assault Troopers even with Krysae X, not without consumables (or at least new Gear, if my assumption that it's multiplicative is correct).

It is a great weapon with remarkable crowd control potential when used on Human soldier, a really decent gun. It is a good weapon on anything else, really good. But because of its insane qualities on Infiltrators I'm afraid it's going to face a nerf and Grimy's idea is brilliant because it will save the gun for every other class and make it a very viable option for non-sniping Infiltrator instead of flat nerf we're so afraid of.
[/quote] 

Also OMG This!

Modifié par StarStruck010, 31 mai 2012 - 05:50 .

[Grimy Bunyip]

Raptor2k1 wrote...

Heh, I dont' see why inflitrators are the issue... Shouldn't Adrenaline Rush, fully buffed out turn this thing into a mobile howitzer with rapid reload on human soldiers?

no it wont.
because human soldier doesn't get 1.4x sniper damage.

[JCD89]

Y SO ELITE

[corvette3]

I hate to quote myself here but i don't think anyone read this post on the problems with making it an AR

corvette3 wrote...

Im not too upset about making it an AR though it would literally make the falcon (a gun i actually like) completely redundant, but you realise the scope is one of it features right? no ARs come with scopes and the Scope would be useless as a result, not to mention it would then be able to take an extended mag, making its clip even bigger.

I kind of wanted Grimy's input on this.

[heybigmoney]

Its a nice solution. No way on earth it gets implemented. Way too time consuming for bioware they would rather just tweak some numbers and make it do less dmg.

[Sovereign24]

This is genius. Would solve the Infiltator problem without a drastic change.

Really hope this happens. As I've said before, the gun is not OP in the hands of a non-infiltrator.

[Grimy Bunyip]

edit: hard to type on phone.
scope isnt an issue, but mag might boost dps by a sizeable amount.

even the AR suggestion leaves room for residual OPness.
slap on warp ammo III and the gun is just as good on infiltrators as it is right now.

IMO the krysae would still be a tad OP.
but imagine if I actually tried to express that opinion on the BSN, I would not hear the end of it.

Modifié par Grimy Bunyip, 31 mai 2012 - 07:23 .

[corvette3]

Well that's kind of how explosions are, at a base level though i think it is rather balanced, it's mostly because of the ridiculous TC damage boost... though i find it does not do quite enough damage without it... damn... it really is hard to balance.

[Cornughon]

Hmm I'm not a good player, but slapped the Krysae X on my lvl 20 Weapon Damage Gethfiltrator and topped the scoreboard on an all-Infiltrator FBW/Cerberus/Gold run, 2 of the others wielding a Black Widow, and one with an assault rifle and an Incisor. Easy to say this is the ultimate anti-Phantom weapon...

[eldrjth]

the thing that makes this gun truly effective though, is the proximity detonation. if you needed to land precise hits (even if it were a hit scan weapon) it would not be nearly as effective as it is, since you couldnt flush enemies out of cover, hit them around a corner or dmg guardians. it also makes it extremely easy to aim so you can get your shots off quicker (more score). if it were as stupidly hard to get a hit to register as the falcon it would not even enter the picture for most ppl. this is why the other aoe guns are terrible, they just dont seem to hit good.

btw does this weapon make the screen shake for anyone?

Modifié par eldrjth, 31 mai 2012 - 07:29 .

[Grimy Bunyip]

corvette3 wrote...

Well that's kind of how explosions are, at a base level though i think it is rather balanced, it's mostly because of the ridiculous TC damage boost... though i find it does not do quite enough damage without it... damn... it really is hard to balance.

noob tubes and AOE are just like that.
but imagine a gun that takes skill to use.

say the kishok, or scorpion.
imagine we actually knew what the balanced dps on those guns were.

now imagine we set the guns dps to 1.2x of that.
would people care?
not as much, because it many players wont be able to exploit the gun to its full potential.
thus the 20% can be brushed off as a reward for mastery.
there is no such thing as mastery of a noob tube.
they must have tiny margins of error.

there was a bungie dev blog about the needler.
they said something about how hard it is to balance.
everyone wants it to be awesome because its just such a sweet weapon to use and watch.
but when bungie gives it just a tad bit more homing, it suddenly becomes the best gun in their playtests.

you just always always always underpower noob tubes, you jist have to.

[Kronner]

I support this.

In the meantime, I am gonna abuse it to the fullest.

[GodlessPaladin]

corvette3 wrote...

I hate to quote myself here but i don't think anyone read this post on the problems with making it an AR

corvette3 wrote...

Im
not too upset about making it an AR though it would literally make the
falcon (a gun i actually like) completely redundant, but you realise the
scope is one of it features right? no ARs come with scopes and the
Scope would be useless as a result, not to mention it would then be able
to take an extended mag, making its clip even bigger.

I kind of wanted Grimy's input on this.

That's actually a very good point.  The mods would change, and this would need to be accounted for. 

-Reducing the clip to 2 would help with the extended mag issue... after all, it doesn't really need armor piercing or stability or anything.  In return it could have increased max ammo (for the loss of the bonus clips mod)

-The scope mod would indeed be redundant, but it's worth noting that there is precedent for having pointless mods available for a weapon.  Consider the pointless scope mod for the Javelin or the pointless AP mod for the Geth Plasma Shotgun.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 31 mai 2012 - 08:07 .

[Mizzie466]

Ohhh so it's the infiltrator bonus. I was wondering why the heck there are all these OP threads about the Krysae when I couldn't shoot jack with it. Because I was using it with the new cerberus adept.

[GodlessPaladin]

Taritu wrote...

A clean suggestion. I'm sorry, a gun that has more base damage than the Black Widow (an ultra rare) and also has an AOE has issues. Big issues. The people who never want anything nerfed make games just as boring as the people who want everything nerfed.

Indeed.  There is in fact a legitimate position between "nerf all the things" and "buff all the things" where anyone looking at things from the POV of a reasonable and benevolent game designer stands.  It's called "balance all the things" and it needs an awesome meme picture.

[Meistr_Chef]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Taritu wrote...

A clean suggestion. I'm sorry, a gun that has more base damage than the Black Widow (an ultra rare) and also has an AOE has issues. Big issues. The people who never want anything nerfed make games just as boring as the people who want everything nerfed.

Indeed.  There is in fact a legitimate position between "nerf all the things" and "buff all the things" where anyone looking at things from the POV of a reasonable and benevolent game designer stands.  It's called "balance all the things" and it needs an awesome meme picture.

Like it or not, there's no surefire way to "balance all the things". It's all pretty subjective. If you went by some measurable way of normalizing the damage/effectiveness of the best guns, you might affect the game more than you think.

Personally I'm not sure where I stand yet; I hate to jump to conclusions and I like to see spectacular weapons and powers in non-competitive games like this, not as much where N things could do a job equally well.

[Pekkan]

The patch didn't really fix projectiles disappearing for non-hosts for at least some projectile weapons, on PC where the patch came before the DLC, with lag it shot lots of blanks.

Maybe this affects the opinions of the gun, even on infiltrator with TC rank 6 40% sniper dmg it might not feel overpowered if you shoot lots of lag blanks.

[molecularman]

YES!

[GodlessPaladin]

Meistr_Chef wrote...

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Taritu wrote...

A clean suggestion. I'm sorry, a gun that has more base damage than the Black Widow (an ultra rare) and also has an AOE has issues. Big issues. The people who never want anything nerfed make games just as boring as the people who want everything nerfed.

Indeed.  There is in fact a legitimate position between "nerf all the things" and "buff all the things" where anyone looking at things from the POV of a reasonable and benevolent game designer stands.  It's called "balance all the things" and it needs an awesome meme picture.

Like it or not, there's no surefire way to "balance all the things". It's all pretty subjective. If you went by some measurable way of normalizing the damage/effectiveness of the best guns, you might affect the game more than you think.

Personally I'm not sure where I stand yet; I hate to jump to conclusions and I like to see spectacular weapons and powers in non-competitive games like this, not as much where N things could do a job equally well.

"I don't know a way to make it perfect, so let's just go with the status quo" is not a terribly sound argument in any of the millions of contexts in which it is used.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 31 mai 2012 - 11:05 .

[TheMightyG00sh]

Oh yes lets make it an Assault Rifle so the player doesn't have to choose between the Krysae and the Black Widow... Great idea!

/sarcasm