228 réponses à ce sujet

[BanditGR]

GodlessPaladin wrote...

Taritu wrote...
Seriously, are we still arguing it doesn't need a nerf? No, headshots don't make up for it, especially now that you can't headshot any bosses.

Yup.  The "no headshots" thing doesn't even matter for the Krysae.  It does more damage to mooks than other sniper rifles on an Infiltrator simply because it passes the shield gate, and bosses can't be headshotted.

This. The Krysae is the new GPS. Equip it to anyone and you instantly have a Gold viable character. Equip it on any Infiltrator (not to mention a GI) and watch him kill mobs before you can even set up combos. One heavy + 3 mooks beside him, the Krysae will mow them down in 1 maybe 2 reloads (depends on the mook type). You can maybe do the same with a BW but you can reach X with Krysae in no time. Anyone who thinks this weapon is fine as a non ultra rare sniper rifle is either delusional, hasn't used the weapon or hasn't used the weapon at X.

[richcz3]

I think this is one of the best, well thought ideas I've read all day.
Don't Nerf the gun - Don't Nerf the Infiltrators. Make the Krysae an Assualt Rifle and leave its stats intact
Kudos Grimy Bunyip

[palker]

I played with it a lot today its an autowin gun you do not even have to aim properly the projectile will explode whenever its near the target with infiltrator damage bonuses it is monster op gun killing groups of enemies at once. I love it i do not care about other people not having quite as much fun as i do i only care about the fact that it can instagib everything i look at

[N7-RedFox]

Grimy Bunyip wrote...

Krysae is not a real sniper rifle
Fer friggin sake its rounds explode after a flying a set distance.
what kinda "Sniper" rifle does that

I honesty

Krysae is OP on infiltrators and i'm not gonna explain why.
That's just a whole nother argument I don't want to get into.

But that's mostly because of the 1.4x sniper rifle damage on infiltrators.

Lets ignore 1.4x sniper damage on rank 6 tactical cloak for a second
Suddenly the picture is very different.
~0.8x the single target DPS of an equally ranked scorpion.
~1.1x the single target DPS of an equally ranked avenger
~0.9x the single target DPS of an equally ranked eagle

Which is still pretty good considering it's an AOE weapon.
But it's not epic faceroll OP like it is on a sniper infiltrator.

So the suggestion is simple
Change the krysae from sniper rifle to assault rifle.
That way it doesn't get the 1.4x sniper damage boost anymore.

Most sniper rifles are universally **** on non-sniper infiltrators.
but tactical cloak's 1.4x sniper damage makes them somewhere between viable and good.

Krysae is a sniper rifle that is reasonably balanced on any class that ISN'T a sniper infiltrator.
Thus it's completely OP on the sniper infiltrator

And lets be honest, the krysae really isn't a sniper rifle.
It fires cones of death that explode if you try to shoot too far away.

Seriously shut up! It's a fair weapon considering how Banshee = one-hit-kill from magnet hands 20m away, Phantom = 1 stab kill from out of nowhere, Ravager = insta-kill via 300% travel rate for missiles, brutes magic splash damage = insta-kill by any other reaper sniping you, Pyro insta kill, Atlas insta kill + stomp + missile lock through cloak, Ravager insta-missile lock through cloak.

Giving us a few weapons that can kill a couple of these OP enemies at a time is a godsend. And bare in mind, while ur taking down a Banshee, some insignificant little a-hole of a marauder will shoot u in the back and take u down with 5 rounds of his magic Phaeston.

Modifié par CaptainTeabag, 01 juin 2012 - 12:32 .

[scheherazade]

The Wraith I and Crusader I are both eclipsed by the Graal X/GPS X/Claymore X.

No one is cying "nerf Graal/GPS/Claymore".

This is no different - except the Krysae X is par with the BW I, while the rare shottys at X are actually a LOT better than the black shottys at I.

-scheherazade

Modifié par scheherazade, 01 juin 2012 - 02:24 .

[Grimy Bunyip]

scheherazade wrote...

The Wraith I and Crusader I are both eclipsed by the Graal X/GPS X/Claymore X.

No one is cying "nerf Graal/GPS/CLaymore".

This is no different - except the Krysae X is par with the BW I, while the rare shottys at X are actually a LOT better than the black shottys at I.

-scheherazade

yes at rank 1 both of those weapons suck.
but at higher ranks, they become much much more potent.

a properly specced crusader of high rank, will do as much damage per bullet to infantry on gold as a black widow.
and the crusader will have better DPS vs bosses like brutes, atlases, banshees, ravagers.
and it has longer penetration.

the wraith is lighter than the graal, GPS, and claymore at high ranks.
and is a not an uncommon choice for pro vanguards.

IMO the crusader is very very powerful right now.
the wraith could definitely use a bit of a buff, but it's not at the point where I'd compare claymore:wraith to krysae:black widow.

[InfamousResult]

CaptainTeabag wrote...

Seriously shut up!

no u

( Seriously, these enemies were killable before. If you found them TOO difficult, then you should try jumping down to Silver or Bronze, rather than demanding you get to keep your "easymode Gold" gun/class combo. )

[Captain_Crouton]

The gun is fine and not overpowered. I can score over 100k with it on gold, but I can do the same with the Javelin, Black Widow, Widow, and Valiant. It also CANNOT score headshots despite what some would believe. Shotguns are still better for killing REAL threats on gold. The Krysae can mow through grunts, sure, but so can any class or gun.

[Drummernate]

I figured out why it is so overpowered....

It is the same gun the Ravagers have mounted to them!!! :S

3 shots and anything dies!!!!

[shpaiderman]

i'm too lazy to read through 8 pages so here it comes:

Idea is ok, but i see one problem on the horizon. What about the in-built scope of the krysae?
As an elegant of a solution it is, the presence of the scope would make it look really make-shift solution.


edit: sh*t->shift  ups

Modifié par shpaiderman, 01 juin 2012 - 02:53 .

[Grimy Bunyip]

shpaiderman wrote...

i'm too lazy to read through 8 pages so here it comes:

Idea is ok, but i see one problem on the horizon. What about the in-built scope of the krysae?
As an elegant of a solution it is, the presence of the scope would make it look really make-**** solution.

so make the precision assault rifle scope a useless upgrade.
the piercing mod upgrade is already useless, another one won't hurt.

[gaminazn]

scheherazade wrote...

The Wraith I and Crusader I are both eclipsed by the Graal X/GPS X/Claymore X.

No one is cying "nerf Graal/GPS/Claymore".

This is no different - except the Krysae X is par with the BW I, while the rare shottys at X are actually a LOT better than the black shottys at I.

-scheherazade

Krysae does more damage than an equivalent level BW according to Tangster's info. Does the same damage ingame as my BW 8. Granted, both OHKO body shot shields & health of all basic mobs. Only real difference is the "adjusted" zoom & aoe. That and the projectile.

[Argent Csero]

 I have this gun at X as well as a Valiant II. I have to say the two seem to perform similarly, or I can kill at about the same speed with both rifles. The Krysae only gains me more point due to the AOE of the bullet. Meaning that even if I don't kill what was standing around my target, I'll still get points when someone else does, and this inflates my score quite a bit. The gun does come with it's own set of problems as well. It cannot penetrate cover, it occasionally fires blanks, sometimes it will not fire out of cover, it will glitch your tactical cloak, and it requires no other enemies to be between you and your target (meaning if I am shooing at a Prime and two Pyro's are standing closer to me, even if I aim over the Pyro's at the Prime, I'll still hit the Pyros. This gets annoying with Hunters as I often don't even see them in my way). Personally, I don't think the gun deserves a nerf, but I could be convinced. I think a fair test would be to take some of BSN's best gold players who have capture cards and throw two into a gold match alone, one with the Valiant one with the Krysae, no equipment or gear or reload cancelling, and see who the top scorer is. Test against all three enemy types and post up the results. If Krysae is always the winner by a significant margin (let's say 30~50k more) then I'll be sold that no matter who has their hands on the gun, it's too much.

[eldrjth]

Captain_Crouton wrote...
. Shotguns are still better for killing REAL threats on gold.

against cerberus this gun has real probs taking out an atlas on its own. most of its dmg is lost when trying to take out an atlas shields for some reason. it also has problems registering dmg against a ravager. but against a phantom/banshee its still supremely effective and I would say is the BEST gun in the game for them. its effective against primes too once you blow up its gadgets. the difference between how quickly it takes to take out a prime compared to an atlas has me wonder if certain units (atlas) have innate explosive resistance. 

so it has probs with 2 elite units in two factions, (once you get used to killing guardians its doable but I find carrying a carnifex as a side arm for taking them out in close range quicker) while the valiant only really struggles against the banshee although its not crash hot against phantoms like the krysae is, which it can kill in 2 proximity shots even if off-target by say 2m. it kinda defeats the purpose of being a small nimble unit when your hit box is now 4m wider. it will also stagger her so you wont take dmg and shes usually extremely resiliant to stagger too. against geth it has really no problems against any units. 

in comparison the shotgun suffers a little for the same reason a sniper does. it requires aiming and if you miss/partial hit you deal no dmg to reduced dmg. the krysae will hit something if you aim at a group and will do full dmg with most shots. dont even know exactly how its calculated but it seems to have a variable dmg mechanic that doesnt trigger very often and seems random. you can mostly deal full dmg from a miss shot but reduced dmg from a direct hit. though I understand some targets are armoured only in certain areas but im talking about standard troopers too. the krysae damage consistancy means you prob going to get more score regardless of how good you are with a sniper, esp since they will kill-steal more with corner shots before the enemy becomes visible. Im suprised noone has complained about that actually. but in a straight out fire-fight between the two where both have LoS the valiant will kill faster and will kill-steal plenty from the slow firing slow bullet travel of the krysae. but youll also be frustrated a lot more as a sniper when the krysae killsteals from you and turns the enemy into giblets.

Argent Csero wrote...

 The gun does come with it's own set of problems as well. It cannot penetrate cover, it occasionally fires blanks, sometimes it will not fire out of cover, it will glitch your tactical cloak, and it requires no other enemies to be between you and your target (meaning if I am shooing at a Prime and two Pyro's are standing closer to me, even if I aim over the Pyro's at the Prime, I'll still hit the Pyros.

it has something even better than cover penetration. it proxi detonates around cover which its FAR more reliably than trying to pen material. 

it does fire blanks but not as often as the falcon did when it was good.

it gliches your TC but so does the valiant. this is actually extremely annoying since you can go to revive someone and you cloak comes undone in around 2s rather than the real period or you dont really know if its active or not.

Modifié par eldrjth, 01 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[scheherazade]

gaminazn wrote...

scheherazade wrote...

The Wraith I and Crusader I are both eclipsed by the Graal X/GPS X/Claymore X.

No one is cying "nerf Graal/GPS/Claymore".

This is no different - except the Krysae X is par with the BW I, while the rare shottys at X are actually a LOT better than the black shottys at I.

-scheherazade

Krysae does more damage than an equivalent level BW according to Tangster's info. Does the same damage ingame as my BW 8. Granted, both OHKO body shot shields & health of all basic mobs. Only real difference is the "adjusted" zoom & aoe. That and the projectile.

A hair more damage...
Krysae doesn't allow for easy back to back headshots and doesn't let you shoot through cover.
So it's par.

And there are plenty of rares that are as good or better than blacks.
Just doesn't warrant the drama...

It's nice having a rare sniper alternative to the ultra-rares that is not a substantial step down.

Right now I do equally well with my BW I and my Krysae X.
Right now, it's a toss up.
Right now, I actaully have to make a choice.
I have variety - a good thing.
I'm actually playing multiple 'sniper infiltrators' now, just to enjoy both.

If they nerf the Krysae, I'll just end up using the BW I, and it'll be RIP Krysae.
I'll only have one choice that I feel like using. (unless it's some wierd 'handicap myself' thing)
It would be less variet y - back to the ol'  "wanna snipe? : BW" routine.

-scheherazade

[E71]

There's already two guns like it in Assault Rifle category (Falcon and Striker) -- we don't need a third.

This one has a SR scope so leave it be.

[InfamousResult]

E71 wrote...

There's already two guns like it in Assault Rifle category (Falcon and Striker) -- we don't need a third.

This one has a SR scope so leave it be.

I'll take all of OP's actual facts and numbers and good reasons to change it over your "well it has a scope and we have two already".

[ThirdChild ZKI]

Sorry, I'm just not buying the "you don't even need to aim with it" bit. You don't need to aim biotic powers or a missile either. Powers curve and missiles splash damage. And biotic classes (speced properly) can use powers as quickly, if not quicker than the Krysae can fire.

I'll level with you a bit; if there's someone hiding behind cover I can't fire through, I'll pop off a shot next to them to draw them out, THEN SHOOT THEM. Because that's how you kill things. Hell, it's effective battle strategy. I do the same with a grenade or turrets. Sure, you can bet there are some players who don't bother trying to aim because of that, but let's face it, with a LOT of the enemies, even if you are trying to hit them, accuracy is something you have to work for.

It may be noob-friendly (like shotguns/grenade launchers in most FPS games), but that doesn't make the weapon bad. It simply gives a player with no skill a crutch. And when things get hot, or when enemies close in, they'll probably be the first ones to go down.

[greghorvath]

ThirdChild ZKI wrote...

Sorry, I'm just not buying the "you don't even need to aim with it" bit. You don't need to aim biotic powers or a missile either. Powers curve and missiles splash damage. And biotic classes (speced properly) can use powers as quickly, if not quicker than the Krysae can fire.

Even though I usually prefer single shot, high damage rifles for sniper infiltrator play, when I choose the Krysae, I just aim in the general direction and get the XP for the kill. The Krysae is not a sniper rifle. I would put it in the shotgun category, as there is already another quasi-sniper rifle there in the form of the Crusader.

It may be noob-friendly (like shotguns/grenade launchers in most FPS games), but that doesn't make the weapon bad. It simply gives a player with no skill a crutch. And when things get hot, or when enemies close in, they'll probably be the first ones to go down.

Man, the crutch is called bronze and silver. Do not urge noobs into gold until they are ready for it. Currently they go gold and start whining how the geth are overpowered and nerf this and buff that... pffffft

But to be honest I dont even understand why this balancing is such a big issue: it is impossible to achieve in any other way than to have one gun and one class... I really wish people would stop calling out for "balancing" instead of learning how to:

• play this game
• make a friends list
• change lobbies when they don't approve of map/enemy/team setup or loadout
• change weapon loadout
• change class
• change build

The list could of course be continued.

The real solution to OP weapons and classes would be to introduce a higher difficulty level, where you would need to use these. Of course, this would start the " why can't I use my predator on my lvl 1 quarian engineer in the highest difficulty" whining...

Modifié par greghorvath, 01 juin 2012 - 04:48 .

[landylan]

i support this. i want to get rid of the variable zoom scope. a stupid idea. why do you need a scope on a gun you dont have to aim?

anyone agree with this? http://social.biowar...0351/1#12369135

Modifié par landylan, 02 juin 2012 - 12:14 .

[snarf001]

Im definately for it being turned into an AR. Atm it can pass as a shotgun, use it at point blank or close range without the scope and boom!

[vironblood]

The thread title is an interesting idea, however I doubt its feasibility. It's highly probable the stats will be altered instead.

[GodlessPaladin]

Grimy and I have been talking about routes to elegantly balance the game, and another suggestion came up besides the Assault Rifle thing.  One thing that came up is the issue that sniper rifles in general aren't terribly useful on non-Infiltrators in large part because of the 1.4x damage bonus Infiltrators get with them (which unlike most other percentage bonuses in the game is actually a multiplier rather than additive), and that the main problem with the Krysae is that, well, making a sniper rifle that's great for eveyone is pretty crazy for Infiltrators because of Tac Cloak Rank 6 being a multiplier rather than an additive bonus like almost every other weapon damage bonus.

What if Rank 6 Tactical Cloak didn't give a 1.4x damage multiplier, but instead a 1.1x multiplier (which is still more than a 40% ADDITIVE damage bonus, which is what all other tac cloak damage bonuses are, if you work out the math) and allowed sniper rifles to bypass the shield gate only on headshots, along with sniper rifles in general (not the Krysae) getting damage buffs to compensate (and become more genuinely useful for every non-infiltrator)?

After all, as is there's not much reward for not getting a bodyshot with a Widow or Javelin out of cloak.

What this does:
-Changes sniper rifle damage bonus for full damage spec Infiltrator to ~230% instead of about 300%
-Buffs sniper rifle damage, compensating somewhat for the lost SR damage.
-Actually gives a boost to infiltrators using slow single shot snipers.
-Rewards headshots for sniper rifles that previously didn't really reward headshots (Because the Widow and Javelin would just do overflow damage)
-Makes the Krysae cease to outclass all other sniper rifles.
-Makes sniper rifles in general more viable and worth their weight on non-Infiltrators.

Modifié par GodlessPaladin, 02 juin 2012 - 01:52 .

[Talhydras]

Not a bad idea at all. Loading all the reward onto the headshot would be a fun way to further reward the accuracy and surgical precision infiltrators are supposed to be about.

But you'd have to do some number crunching I think; it'd be good if there was still some reason to use the valiant/BW in a universe where headshots from widows and javs can punch through the shield gate on gold.

EDIT: Oh hey, you did some number crunching. Well, it certainly seems like a start. What sort of general damage buff were you thinking is appropriate for all SRs?

Modifié par Talhydras, 02 juin 2012 - 01:46 .