278 réponses à ce sujet

[LucasShark]

Malanek999 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I can't believe some of the negativity shown by people on here. Just because a voyage is going to take longer, maybe a week, maybe 6 months, maybe 6 years, doesn't mean that those voyages will not take place. In fact I hate to break it to you but that is probably a lot more realistic in terms of how real future space travel will work. Anyway regardless of reality, in the ME world we would see use of cyro technology to pass the time and reduce ageing and food consumption.

"Decades or centuries" - codex

Where in the codex do you get that from? It contradicts the speeds that were in the OP that are actually from the codex.

From the very first entry on Mass Relays.  And I have brought up the contradiction in the past: the whole "12 lightyears per day" comes from ONE line from Ashley, who knows nothing about starships.  I reject it.  And even if 12 is correct: that would mean in a straight line, which the 24 LY range before drive discharge makes impossible anyway: you'd have to criss-cross between clusters of stars or individual systems hundreds of times..

That's interesting, when I read it, which I just have, it says "years or even decades". And anyway that is talking about extreme journeys. There are lots of intersteller places you can go that will take less time.

Quoted directly from ME1 codex, open 4 feet from me on my TV.
As for inter-stellar: that's all well and good, but you can't leave your star cluster unless you happen to be able to reach another in 24 lightyears or 2 days travel, or you die.

[Malanek]

mauro2222 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...
Are you kidding me? they can only go in one direction at FTL speed, and is forward, if the sensors pick something they have to stop. Unless you have magical sensors that can detect things at 300 lightyears.

If you are going faster than the speed of light sensors are not going to detect anything. How can they?

You tell me, Joker could know what the hell was happening with the Quarians and the Geth.

I supose they could have zipped in and out deploying senors that were embedded with quantum entanglement. But yeah once they start breaking the laws of physics, it means the writers probably have to keep doing it.

[Malanek]

LucasShark wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I can't believe some of the negativity shown by people on here. Just because a voyage is going to take longer, maybe a week, maybe 6 months, maybe 6 years, doesn't mean that those voyages will not take place. In fact I hate to break it to you but that is probably a lot more realistic in terms of how real future space travel will work. Anyway regardless of reality, in the ME world we would see use of cyro technology to pass the time and reduce ageing and food consumption.

"Decades or centuries" - codex

Where in the codex do you get that from? It contradicts the speeds that were in the OP that are actually from the codex.

From the very first entry on Mass Relays.  And I have brought up the contradiction in the past: the whole "12 lightyears per day" comes from ONE line from Ashley, who knows nothing about starships.  I reject it.  And even if 12 is correct: that would mean in a straight line, which the 24 LY range before drive discharge makes impossible anyway: you'd have to criss-cross between clusters of stars or individual systems hundreds of times..

That's interesting, when I read it, which I just have, it says "years or even decades". And anyway that is talking about extreme journeys. There are lots of intersteller places you can go that will take less time.

Quoted directly from ME1 codex, open 4 feet from me on my TV.
As for inter-stellar: that's all well and good, but you can't leave your star cluster unless you happen to be able to reach another in 24 lightyears or 2 days travel, or you die.

There is a link here with the more up to date version.
http://masseffect.wi...iki/Mass_Relay 

[LucasShark]

Malanek999 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I can't believe some of the negativity shown by people on here. Just because a voyage is going to take longer, maybe a week, maybe 6 months, maybe 6 years, doesn't mean that those voyages will not take place. In fact I hate to break it to you but that is probably a lot more realistic in terms of how real future space travel will work. Anyway regardless of reality, in the ME world we would see use of cyro technology to pass the time and reduce ageing and food consumption.

"Decades or centuries" - codex

Where in the codex do you get that from? It contradicts the speeds that were in the OP that are actually from the codex.

From the very first entry on Mass Relays.  And I have brought up the contradiction in the past: the whole "12 lightyears per day" comes from ONE line from Ashley, who knows nothing about starships.  I reject it.  And even if 12 is correct: that would mean in a straight line, which the 24 LY range before drive discharge makes impossible anyway: you'd have to criss-cross between clusters of stars or individual systems hundreds of times..

That's interesting, when I read it, which I just have, it says "years or even decades". And anyway that is talking about extreme journeys. There are lots of intersteller places you can go that will take less time.

Quoted directly from ME1 codex, open 4 feet from me on my TV.
As for inter-stellar: that's all well and good, but you can't leave your star cluster unless you happen to be able to reach another in 24 lightyears or 2 days travel, or you die.

There is a link here with the more up to date version.
http://masseffect.wi...iki/Mass_Relay 

I take ME1>any other version, simply because it was the universe, as devised originally, free from the starbaby and other idiocy.

[Malanek]

LucasShark wrote...
I take ME1>any other version, simply because it was the universe, as devised originally, free from the starbaby and other idiocy.

Things are also older and less up to date...including the technology. Anyway, again that was just a figure of speech. There are still places to go that are shorter than the distances they are referring to.

[mauro2222]

LucasShark wrote...

I take ME1>any other version, simply because it was the universe, as devised originally, free from the starbaby and other idiocy.

With the other 3/4 of the original writers

[davishepard]

LucasShark wrote...

I take ME1>any other version, simply because it was the universe, as devised originally, free from the starbaby and other idiocy.

It's their universe, and they can change it if they want. I don't need to tell you what it means to ignore more actual informations presented in ME2 and ME3, do I?

Modifié par davishepard, 01 juin 2012 - 02:20 .

[LucasShark]

davishepard wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

I take ME1>any other version, simply because it was the universe, as devised originally, free from the starbaby and other idiocy.

It's their universe, and they can change it if they want. I don't need to tell you what it means to ignore more actual informations presented in ME2 and ME3, do I?

WHY THE HELL did they give us technical and specific information in the form of an accumulated codex if they just ignore it later?  That is idiotic, and poor writing.

[davishepard]

LucasShark wrote...

WHY THE HELL did they give us technical and specific information in the form of an accumulated codex if they just ignore it later?  That is idiotic, and poor writing.

ME2 and ME3 also have codex entries, that are more actual than the ones in ME1. Deal with it, or ignore it, but keep in mind that doing this is the real idiocy.

I see many people labeling many things as "poor writing". Because you have so many sucessfull game series that you wrote, I guess.

[LucasShark]

davishepard wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

WHY THE HELL did they give us technical and specific information in the form of an accumulated codex if they just ignore it later?  That is idiotic, and poor writing.

ME2 and ME3 also have codex entries, that are more actual than the ones in ME1. Deal with it, or ignore it, but keep in mind that doing this is the real idiocy.

I see many people labeling many things as "poor writing". Because you have so many sucessfull game series that you wrote, I guess.

"more actual "...

Sorry but that ruined any credibility you might have had.

[davishepard]

LucasShark wrote...

"more actual "...

Sorry but that ruined any credibility you might have had.

Because you say so, and ignoring content from ME2 and ME3 is what it gives credibility to a person.

I see.

[LucasShark]

davishepard wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

"more actual "...

Sorry but that ruined any credibility you might have had.

Because you say so, and ignoring content from ME2 and ME3 is what it gives credibility to a person.

I see.

More than half of ME2's codex is identical to ME1.  The change comes in ME3 when a certain new writer who will remain nameless took over, that is where I make the cut off.  I do not accept information from the same source which brought us the crucible and RGB coloured endings.

[Funkdrspot]

NS Wizdum wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

shaani, I completely agree with what you stated. too many emotionally charged people trying to create reasons to hate the end. The reality is that they can't stand the destruction of the mass relays because it injects instability into the very heart of the story they love, so they create reasons why it shouldn't work and demand a completely new ending.

As it stands, the issues of galactic travel, a galactic darkage, starvation and the citadel entering the atmosphere have already been dealt with but they keep coming up b/c its not an issue of logic for some people.

I'm going to assume you are still trolling, unless you actually explain any of this.

i was never trolling, that was just a nice neat label to place on me so you could marginalize my opinion. i actually made 2 threads explaining some of these things and the retakers just left when i started talking physics and chirality.

I'm not calling you a troll so I can ignore your opinion. I can ignore your opinion because you havn't actually shared it yet. What you have done, is made a statement with no supporting information or situation. I'm calling you a troll because you keep reiterating the same statement, without expanding upon it. Like you are baiting a trap and waiting for someone to challenge your poorly formed statement. If you have an opinion based on this statement, thats fine, I just havn't heard it yet.

Ok i'm finally able to respond now. What statement have I not supported with info? 

[davishepard]

LucasShark wrote...

More than half of ME2's codex is identical to ME1.  The change comes in ME3 when a certain new writer who will remain nameless took over, that is where I make the cut off.  I do not accept information from the same source which brought us the crucible and RGB coloured endings.

More than half is not the full entry. That means, it changed. You may choose not to accept, but this only invalidates the informations in you personal world - headcannon. In the real world, the entries of ME3 are as or more valid than the ones in previous games.
Technology improves with time.

Modifié par davishepard, 01 juin 2012 - 02:39 .

[LucasShark]

davishepard wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

More than half of ME2's codex is identical to ME1.  The change comes in ME3 when a certain new writer who will remain nameless took over, that is where I make the cut off.  I do not accept information from the same source which brought us the crucible and RGB coloured endings.

More than half is not the full entry. That means, it changed. You may choose not to accept, but this only invalidates the informations in you personal world - headcannon. In the real world, the entries of ME3 are as or more valid than the previous game. Technology improves with time.

ANd a change of 2 words is a try at slipping something past the reader.

[Averdi]

The effective end of ME civalization via the destruction of the relays is probably my biggest problem with the ending.

Evenjelith wrote...
....The damage it does to the universe though I think outweighs any artistic gains.

This.

Yes, some form of interstellar travel remains possible, but without the relay network the cost of any long-distance travel become prohibative on any commercial or social scale.  Coulple the logistical challenges mentioned here with the vast destruction of physical and human capital on Earth and accross the galaxy, and as a practical matter such travel just isn't going to happen for a while.  Travelling to any of the other major home planets from Earth would be like us sending probes to Mars - something you do now and then as a type of luxury good, but not an integral aspect of society.

Thus, the galactic civilization my Shepard knew and fought for in the games is dead.  A different one may eventually emerge, millenia in the future, but that's no real comfort at all.

[BP20125810]

Travel is very possible a post ME3 galaxy. There has already been two extensive threads detailing the exact math behind it all, but the longest time ended up being around like 20 something years for the quarians, and they do have life ships. If anyone could link those two old threads, they flesh out the topic pretty well.

[Funkdrspot]

LucasShark wrote...

davishepard wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

"more actual "...

Sorry but that ruined any credibility you might have had.

Because you say so, and ignoring content from ME2 and ME3 is what it gives credibility to a person.

I see.

More than half of ME2's codex is identical to ME1.  The change comes in ME3 when a certain new writer who will remain nameless took over, that is where I make the cut off.  I do not accept information from the same source which brought us the crucible and RGB coloured endings.

The codex is meant to be nothing more than a cumulation of info that we CURRENTLY know. It's not meant to be an unbreakable law. We are playing the role of Shepard, not some ominus 3rd party  or person in the audience.

[JPN17]

BP20125810 wrote...

Travel is very possible a post ME3 galaxy. There has already been two extensive threads detailing the exact math behind it all, but the longest time ended up being around like 20 something years for the quarians, and they do have life ships. If anyone could link those two old threads, they flesh out the topic pretty well.

Distance and time are not the issues. The real issues are fuel and discharging the drive cores. Good luck finding a fuel station out in the middle of the unexplored galaxy. And if you can't find a planet within 50 or so hours (keep in mind the Milky Way is full of vast expanses of empty space) then that's it, trip over. To think that there's a path that can go from Sol to the Perseus Veil where you can get to a planet within 50 hours every single time you need to discharge the core is just silly.

[Funkdrspot]

JPN17 wrote...

BP20125810 wrote...

Travel is very possible a post ME3 galaxy. There has already been two extensive threads detailing the exact math behind it all, but the longest time ended up being around like 20 something years for the quarians, and they do have life ships. If anyone could link those two old threads, they flesh out the topic pretty well.

Distance and time are not the issues. The real issues are fuel and discharging the drive cores. Good luck finding a fuel station out in the middle of the unexplored galaxy. And if you can't find a planet within 50 or so hours (keep in mind the Milky Way is full of vast expanses of empty space) then that's it, trip over. To think that there's a path that can go from Sol to the Perseus Veil where you can get to a planet within 50 hours every single time you need to discharge the core is just silly.

Read the last 2 pages.

It would be incredibly easy for someone to explain that all away. Those are easy issues that take all of 10 seconds to figure out.

[The Night Mammoth]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Navigation.

Navigation is easy in the Mass Effect space-travel universe. There isn't a 'this be choppy waters.'

No, but they have no idea where they're going or where they are. Pioneers through uncharted territory. Who knows what's out there. 

Distances involved.

This is solvable by established ME technologies. Food can be grown on ships, manufactured goods can be fabricated by raw materials, and even ships from hundreds of years ago could last centuries of constant use.

With constant repairs using parts traded and gathered from populated systems. 

Like I said earlier or in some other post, food and fuel, that's actually obtaining it, would be easy enough.

Discharging the core.

Easily explained by using scouts ahead of any caravan to find the best systems.

And if they fail? What if they either don't find anything or happen to find a gap that this 'caravan' can't cross? 

They'd have to go back, find another route, causing the travel time to be even longer.

Once you reach a gap between systems larger than fuel capacity or more distant that roughly 50 hours away, you are f*cked. That's if you can navigate there. Less than 1% of the galaxy has been explored in Mass Effect, you will be going into uncharted territory.

I have to ask where you got 50 hours from, because the only travel range given in the games that I can think of is the Reapers. They flew for a bit longer than 50 hours.

Codex, Wulfram posted it. 

That's likely the largest obstacle. 


Again though, not saying it's impossible, or even improbable, just that all these problems are going to be solved in the long term, not in the short term, and frankly, I don't care for that situation where the galaxy is nothing like what it was. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 01 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[Dean_the_Young]

LucasShark wrote...

How do you want me to counter that?  That is impossible: we are told it takes place in dense clusters, we know the range of the Normandy, hence the trips are below that threshhold.  Case closed.

The counter would be by recognizing that codex averages aren't infallible words of gods, especially when they are contradicted in-game. In-game events have always trumped the codex, which itself is an in-universe imperfect data source.

[Dean_the_Young]

mauro2222 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

This neither refutes or even addresses what you are quoting.

Yes it does my friend, not every part of the galaxy is covered with planets or planetoids.

This is a case of reducto ad absurdem. Not only is it not something I've claimed, the lack of every star system having planets or planetoids doesn't invalidate my point because my point never rested on needing such.

Are you kidding me? they can only go in one direction at FTL speed, and is forward,

Or they could be like a plane, in which while forward velocity is required a straight line is not.

And even if it weren't, again, you don't need to draw a straight line through a solar system.

if the sensors pick something they have to stop

And this isn't how it works in the lore at all.

. Unless you have magical sensors that can detect things at 300 lightyears.

...we have that technology now. It's called 'looking at star light with a camera.'

While only 1% of the galaxy has been surveyed, that refers to having been there. Knowing where a solar system is incredibly easy because, well, they are centered around those big glowing balls of light that have been marking their presence for millions of light years.

That technology is old and well established in the ME universe, because we already have it ourselves.

[Dean_the_Young]

Han Shot First wrote...

@Dean,

Give an example of any historical event that has happened in the last 150 years where details have been largely lost to time, because of an overabudance of information to sift through. Lack of information creates gaps in histories, not an overabundance.

Here's a good one: we already had this conversation about a month ago. Can you find it on this forum?

Information overabudnance is a cause of losing track of information: that is why it's one of the modern tools for counter-intelligence. Covering up an initial grain of truth with an outburst of contradictory information is actually a common occurance in political scandals. Some element will be seized upon, one side will make claims from one perspective, another side will make claims from another, and then someone coming in later can end up with a loss of what actually happened. The nature of the rape case of wikileaks founder Astonage certainly varies depending on who you listen to.

Losing track of information you've recorded is also a classic problem: just like you can forget what you put in your closet until you really clean it out, information put in data bases can be forgotten that it's in the data base, even if the data is actually there.

It was fairly clear in the Stargazer dialogue that knowledge had been lost to time. It also wasn't a case of information not to being known because it had been classified, because Stargazer's dialogue states that the information was lost to time. classified information would have never been widely known, and thus it would be impossible for a society to have a perception that it was lost. You can only lose something if you possess it.

Two separate points you are trying to combine, there. You can be affected by both: having only an incomplete picture at the start, and then losing part of what you do have.

The dialogue was what it appeared to be when taken at face value --- an indication of information decay. The writers were obviously setting that scene in a more primitive setting than the one Shepard lived in.

That's not face value. That's your projection onto it.

[Dean_the_Young]

LucasShark wrote...

I take ME1>any other version, simply because it was the universe, as devised originally, free from the starbaby and other idiocy.

Oh, in that case you're simply wrong and ignoring canon and technological progress.

End of story.