278 réponses à ce sujet

[Ticonderoga117]

mango smoothie wrote...

According to Mass Effect lore it would take 22 years to travel from one side of the galaxy to the other on FTL. Also from lore the Quarians have no permanent structures or facilities, so any way they get fuel is through some sort of mobile way. With the Quarians help the rest of the galaxy can learn how to survive years aboard a ship. Galactic civilization is gone, but the races aren't all trapped in the Sol system.

On ships that were made based around Mass Relay tech. Very few ships probably have the distance capabilities to get to the nearest system with fuel processing facilites, never mind the United Fleet at Earth.

[NS Wizdum]

Shaani wrote...

I know that there is non-relay based FTL, but where does the 22 years figure come from, exactly?

There was a huge thread on this earlier. Keep in mind that these figures are best-case-scenario. They assume that they can travel in a perfectly straight line, and that refueling and discharing takes 0 seconds.

http://social.biowar.../index/10943661 

Another interesting piece of information, is that the Reapers can only travel at roughly 24 light years per day, which is about twice as fast as the Normandy. You would think that billions of years of development would give them a bit more performance.

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 31 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

Shaani wrote...

I know that there is non-relay based FTL, but where does the 22 years figure come from, exactly?

\\/

[ediskrad327]

FTL capabilities suck considering people like the stargazer are still stranded 10,000 years later

[NS Wizdum]

ediskrad327 wrote...

FTL capabilities suck considering people like the stargazer are still stranded 10,000 years later

That part just confused me, its like they wanted to do a BSG ending, but forgot to include the message and setting.

[Flyprdu]

Shaani wrote...

The mass relays were always a crutch, intended to heard intelligent life like cattle into the slaughterhouse.

Losing them hurts, but so does throwing your crutches away and learning to walk again.

This logic boggles my mind:

"Oh good, all our airplanes are destroyed.  Great, this will be just the motivation we need to build faster cars!"

No matter what sort of development you make in automobiles, it pales in comparison to what airplanes can do. 

The destruction of the mass relays has crippled the galaxy for years or centuries to come.

• Fuel and speed limitations of FTL,
• discharging requirements, (A ship cannot discharge in deep space)
• as well as other considerations such as the dangers of traveling through uncharted space, and
• relativistic time dilation,

make the whole idea of FTL travel between clusters impractical or just plain unfeasible.

Modifié par Flyprdu, 31 mai 2012 - 05:29 .

[Shaani]

Flyprdu wrote...

airplanes

We built airplanes.  They were not handed down to us from on high, by hostile aliens, designed purely to kill us, and we did not accept them as face value because we are too lazy and stupid to figure out how to build our own.

No mode of travel is analogous to the mass relays, because no mode of travel was designed by robo-cthulhu to eventually commit genocide against the people using it.

People have gotten by for too long on "Prothean" artifacts.  The Citadel races are like someone who never moved out of mom's basement.  If they want to travel faster, then it's time to put on their big boy pants and figure out how FTL really works and invent something better.

If the galaxy has to "slow down", then it's their own fault for relying on  the relays and not figuring this out sooner.

Modifié par Shaani, 31 mai 2012 - 05:36 .

[im commander shep]

KevShep wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

If that was Walters intention he surpassed anyone who has ever attempted it.

Awe inspiring.

This tweet will live in infamy with so many gamers if Bioware don't do something to shine this turd of an ending.

[tekkaman fear]

Let's also remember the Geth are true AI now. With their collective minds who knows what improvements on existing or alternative FTL they could come up with.

[Shaani]

tekkaman fear wrote...

Let's also remember the Geth are true AI now. With their collective minds who knows what improvements on existing or alternative FTL they could come up with.

We don't even need true AI.  Just a society where the very idea of expanding upon existing infastructure isn't met by "laughing the blue off my ass", as Liara's dad put it.

[Erield]

Shaani wrote...

We built airplanes.  They were not handed down to us from on high, by hostile aliens, designed purely to kill us, and we did not accept them as face value because we are too lazy and stupid to figure out how to build our own.

No mode of travel is analogous to the mass relays, because no mode of travel was designed by robo-cthulhu to eventually commit genocide against the people using it.

People have gotten by for too long on "Prothean" artifacts.  The Citadel races are like someone who never moved out of mom's basement.  If they want to travel faster, then it's time to put on their big boy pants and figure out how FTL really works and invent something better.

If the galaxy has to "slow down", then it's their own fault for relying on  the relays and not figuring this out sooner.

The Relays are a trap.  Sorry, correction, the Relays were a trap.  Their entire purpose is to funnel and focus the spread of organic races into very specific patterns.  This serves to let the Reapers know where to go to harvest us.  Retaining the Relays while the Reapers remain, and remain bent on harvesting advanced organic races, would be stupid.  That would be dangerous.  That would be foolish.

Casting off the Relays solely because of the purpose the Reapers intended them for is ridiculous.  Saying that it's good that the Relays gone, instantly, in the face of the greatest disaster galactic civilization has ever faced is simply amazing.  None of this matters, though, because Star Kid says that the Relays will be gone anyway, and the endings tend to bear this out.  (Bare? bear? I never can figure that one out.)

[im commander shep]

Only working with the tech details given in the games at time of ending. And lets face it they won't be flying reapers or reaper based ships home in the forseable future. If 12LY per 24hrs is the standard travel speed for most ships and most ships need to discharge drive core after 50hrs most ships can only travel, at a push and being very generous 72hrs before needing to find a planet and discharge the core. This gives us a max travel distance of 24 LY before needing to stop. There is almost certainly areas of deep space that are greater than 24LY across that contain no planets which effectively creates a barrier that no one can cross. Combine this with only 1% of the galaxy having been mapped so no one knows where to head to where they will be guaranteed to find a planet within 24 LY of their starting point, EVERYTIME.

Really no race that needs to travel more than a few hundred LY to get home will be getting home anytime soon and of course as soon a resourses get tight (if they are not already) in the local cluster the arguments and fighting will begin.

[Shaani]

Erield wrote...

The Relays are a trap.  Sorry, correction, the Relays were a trap.

The
entire crux of the Reaper's plans is to provide organic life with
enough technology to ensure a cushy existence, without having to do the
work neccesary to make that existence possible, to ensure that they
don't bother advancing technology beyond a certain point.  If the
Citadel races retain this attitude they have, where they never try to
advance in new directions that haven't already been prepared for them,
then we'd still be suffering from the effects of the Cycle.

Is it
painful that they are gone?  Oh, yeah.  In the short term.  Mostly
because, with the relays around, nobody bothered to develop faster FTL
or build their own safe relays.  The Citadel races have nobody to blame
but themselves, if they cannot get by without Reaper assistance.  It was
long past time to begin building their own relays (like the Protheans
were trying to do) or otherwise breaking out of the Reaper mindset.

In
the long term, destroying the relay network is the only way to remove
the Reaper's stranglehold over technological development.

im commander shep wrote...

of course as soon a resourses get tight (if they are not already) in the local cluster the arguments and fighting will begin.

Have you ever seen a 3d map of the stars closest to the sun?  Even with conventional FTL, there are dozens of star systems full of resources within reach; virtually infinate by our standards, and more than enough to support the battered survivors of the Reaper invasion.  The Fleet itself, and all of the worlds and colonies in the cluster will have depleted numbers of people to support due to casualties, and a great many of the survivors will now have bonded by fighting together in the largest battle of all time.  Things will be tight until they have stabilized, but that doesn't automatically presuppose violence.

I think what's more likely to happen is that the Systems Alliance will stop being a purely human organization and absorb some of the other races over time, taking up the duties the Citadel Council once had, while they begin to adapt and eventually spread out over the galaxy again.  That's just my theory though.

[Evenjelith]

Shaani wrote...

Have you ever seen a 3d map of the stars closest to the sun?  Even with conventional FTL, there are dozens of star systems full of resources within reach; virtually infinate by our standards, and more than enough to support the battered survivors of the Reaper invasion.  The Fleet itself, and all of the worlds and colonies in the cluster will have depleted numbers of people to support due to casualties, and a great many of the survivors will now have bonded by fighting together in the largest battle of all time.  Things will be tight until they have stabilized, but that doesn't automatically presuppose violence.

The problem is that Garden worlds are very rare. Even with nearby systems to visit, there may only be uninhabitable worlds. Now that could be useful for raw resources but what about food. The Quarians and Turians can't eat the same food as the other races. Earth cannot produce food for them and Earth isn't really in a position to produce food for anyone.

Also, it stands to reason that any system within FTL of Earth has already been explored and settled by Humanity. Given the Reapers spent the entirety of ME3 with access to the Sol system (and knowing their tactics) it's VERY likely they would have traveled to any nearby systems with infastructure and destroyed anything of value.

Modifié par Evenjelith, 31 mai 2012 - 01:50 .

[Wulfram]

In practical terms, the galaxy starts to look less like the modern small earth where you can get anywhere you want in a day by air travel, and more like the pre-industrialised earth where travel takes months or years, and far off lands exist in legends.

Evenjelith wrote...

Also, it stands to reason that any system within FTL of Earth has
already been explored and settled by Humanity. Given the Reapers spent
the entirety of ME3 with access to the Sol system (and knowing their
tactics) it's VERY likely they would have traveled to any nearby systems
with infastructure and destroyed anything of value.

Not necessarily.  Systems that are conveniently close to relays would take a much higher priority than Systems which are physically close to Earth but actually take a lot of time to reach.

And the reapers have no particular reason to prioritise minor colonies with limited strategic value.

Modifié par Wulfram, 31 mai 2012 - 02:16 .

[Evenjelith]

Wulfram wrote...

In practical terms, the galaxy starts to look less like the modern small earth where you can get anywhere you want in a day by air travel, and more like the pre-industrialised earth where travel takes months or years, and far off lands exist in legends.

Evenjelith wrote...

Also, it stands to reason that any system within FTL of Earth has
already been explored and settled by Humanity. Given the Reapers spent
the entirety of ME3 with access to the Sol system (and knowing their
tactics) it's VERY likely they would have traveled to any nearby systems
with infastructure and destroyed anything of value.

Not necessarily.  Systems that are conveniently close to relays would take a much higher priority than Systems which are physically close to Earth but actually take a lot of time to reach.

And the reapers have no particular reason to prioritise minor colonies with limited strategic value.

I could be wrong. But I think every system within reasonable range of Earth would have a human presence. The value is that these systems and their resources would still be available even if Humanity was pushed by to the Sol relay. Anything past Arcturas station would be cut-off from Earth.

The Reapers end game is to harest everything. No doubt smaller colonies would take lower priorty but my thought process was their proximity to Earth would make them quick and easy targets without the Reapers sending reinforcements too far away. Remember, these guys are bothering with little colonies like Tip Tree. 

It's all speculation in the end I suppose.

----------

What I don't get are these, "they can just use leftover Reaper tech" comments. To what end? Even if you build yourselves an Mass Relay in the Sol system to replace the one that was destroyed, what's it connecting to? You'd have to get to the end point and place a recipiant relay? The Repears must have spent centuries if not longer setting up the relay network. The idea that we'll just whip us up some Reaper tech in the wake of such a devistating conflict when as someone else pointed out the Crucible took everything we the galaxy could muster (with a functional Relay network) seems comical to me.

I'm morbidly curious to see How/If EC will resolve this.

Modifié par Evenjelith, 31 mai 2012 - 02:35 .

[Wulfram]

Evenjelith wrote...


I think every system within reasonable range of Earth would have a human presence.

Yes.  But what is reasonable changes once you've lost the relays and thus have no other choices.  Being, say, a week from Earth would hardly be worth it, until there weren't any other choices.

What I don't get are these, "they can just use leftover Reaper tech" comments. To what end? Even if you build yourselves an Mass Relay in the Sol system to replace the one that was destroyed, what's it connecting to? You'd have to get to the end point and place a recipiant relay? The Repears must have spent centuries if not longer setting up the relay network. The idea that we'll just whip us up some Reaper tech in the wake of such a devistating conflict when as someone else pointed out the Crucible took everything we the galaxy could muster (with a functional Relay network) seems comical to me.

You could use Quantum Entanglement communications to coordinate construction efforts with other systems.

You can travel using conventional FTL - or Reaper tech enhanced conventional FTL - to set up the recieving end.  Years long journey times aren't very viable for regular trade, but sending one ship for an important mission seems more believable.

Reestablishing the full relay network no doubt would take centuries - the Quarians would probably be better off just flying home, given how out of the way Rannoch is.  But connecting many of the major worlds of the Council races could be more like decades, if you feel like being optimistic.

Modifié par Wulfram, 31 mai 2012 - 03:04 .

[NS Wizdum]

Wulfram wrote...

Evenjelith wrote...


I think every system within reasonable range of Earth would have a human presence.

Yes.  But what is reasonable changes once you've lost the relays and thus have no other choices.  Being, say, a week from Earth would hardly be worth it, until there weren't any other choices.

What I don't get are these, "they can just use leftover Reaper tech" comments. To what end? Even if you build yourselves an Mass Relay in the Sol system to replace the one that was destroyed, what's it connecting to? You'd have to get to the end point and place a recipiant relay? The Repears must have spent centuries if not longer setting up the relay network. The idea that we'll just whip us up some Reaper tech in the wake of such a devistating conflict when as someone else pointed out the Crucible took everything we the galaxy could muster (with a functional Relay network) seems comical to me.

You could use Quantum Entanglement communications to coordinate construction efforts with other systems.

You can travel using conventional FTL - or Reaper tech enhanced conventional FTL - to set up the recieving end.  Years long journey times aren't very viable for regular trade, but sending one ship for an important mission seems more believable.

Reestablishing the full relay network no doubt would take centuries - the Quarians would probably be better off just flying home, given how out of the way Rannoch is.  But connecting many of the major worlds of the Council races could be more like decades, if you feel like being optimistic.

The problem is, did all those fleets bring enough food for a 3 year journy home? The relays made sure that these ships were never more than 2 days away from a friendly harbor, why would they bring a lot of food/supplies? Their first priority is going to be finding a way to survive until the end of the week.

It takes quite a bit of hardware to make a QEC pair. What are the chances that the hardware survived, and that it is within range of the fleet?

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 31 mai 2012 - 04:38 .

[The Angry One]

im commander shep wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

If that was Walters intention he surpassed anyone who has ever attempted it.

Awe inspiring.

This tweet will live in infamy with so many gamers if Bioware don't do something to shine this turd of an ending.

That tweet so had "Sees the ending. Makes hasty tweet to stop people using their Mass Effect 3 DVDs as frisbees" written all over it.

Modifié par The Angry One, 31 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[Xellith]

Fibonacci wrote...

On the other hand, if the other ships are effected like the Normandy ... there will be no FTL ships in action anywhere near a now dead relay.

The cutscene shows the normandy ships systems overloading long before the energy wave actually hit.  The crash of the Normandy was more likely because of Joker pushing the ship hard while trying to avoid an unknown energy wave rather than the wave actually causing damage.

Modifié par Xellith, 31 mai 2012 - 05:00 .

[SaxAppeal47]

With the limited information "or clarification" of th state of the galaxy post crucible, most likely a new galactic civilization will center on earth and expand outward as tech is re discovered. Worlds like rannoch and far reaches of Asari space, Terminus systems, ect. Will be on their own for awhile. Which could lead to interesting re- contact stuff

[The Angry One]

Xellith wrote...

Fibonacci wrote...

On the other hand, if the other ships are effected like the Normandy ... there will be no FTL ships in action anywhere near a now dead relay.

The cutscene shows the normandy ships systems overloading long before the energy wave actually hit.  The crash of the Normandy was more likely because of Joker pushing the ship hard while trying to avoid an unknown energy wave rather than the wave actually causing damage.

Yes let's make Joker look even dumber than he already does.
This has gone beyond character assassination and even character lynching. I don't even know what to call it. Sustained and deliberate character torture maybe?

[NS Wizdum]

The Angry One wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Fibonacci wrote...

On the other hand, if the other ships are effected like the Normandy ... there will be no FTL ships in action anywhere near a now dead relay.

The cutscene shows the normandy ships systems overloading long before the energy wave actually hit.  The crash of the Normandy was more likely because of Joker pushing the ship hard while trying to avoid an unknown energy wave rather than the wave actually causing damage.

Yes let's make Joker look even dumber than he already does.
This has gone beyond character assassination and even character lynching. I don't even know what to call it. Sustained and deliberate character torture maybe?

Joker also allowed the Reapers to find Earth. He left their navigational charts in the restroom on the collector base.