278 réponses à ce sujet

[Shaani]

Evenjelith wrote...

The problem is that Garden worlds are very rare. Even with nearby systems to visit, there may only be uninhabitable worlds.

Maybe, but life is still possible on many non-garden worlds.  People live on Mars, for example, and it would be possible to terraform it into a garden world, buuuuut . . . .

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mars wrote...

Once considered a prospect for terraforming and colonization, the discovery of faster than light travel turned Mars[/b] into a quiet backwater.

Thanks to those wonderful, wonderful mass effect relays, nobody ever bothered fixing up the planet next door, depriving the survivors of an entire world upon which to settle.  Whoops!

Now that could be useful for raw resources but what about food. The Quarians and Turians can't eat the same food as the other races. Earth cannot produce food for them and Earth isn't really in a position to produce food for anyone

The Quarians already have food. The Liveships are dedicated to producing food for the fleet.  The Citadel is there, perhaps partially intact, and is no doubt stocked with some food, and capable of producing food to keep it's people alive. Those opperations would have to be expanded, of course, but we probably grow most of our own food in hydroponics labs and cloning vats by this point.

Also, it stands to reason that any system within FTL of Earth has already been explored and settled by Humanity.

Only the 1% of stars in the galaxy closest to the mass relays have been explored, because it's easier to use the mass relays.  There's no need to explore the stars closest to Earth, when you can bop over to another star cluster full of empty, exploitable worlds in half the time.

Actually, let me bring up another point here.  The Rachni Wars.

It is heavily implied in ME2 that the Rachni are a peaceful species that were turned against the Citadel races by the Reapers.  Why would they do that, so many centuries before the cycle ends?  Doesn't that risk exposure?

I believe it was because the Reapers didn't want the Citadel races to explore.  Reactivating dormant relays might lead them to find some clues from the previous cycle, and start asking questions that the Reapers don't want them to ask,

The entire point of the relay system was not to encourage races to spread out, it was to stop them from spreading out.

[NS Wizdum]

Shaani wrote...

Evenjelith wrote...

The problem is that Garden worlds are very rare. Even with nearby systems to visit, there may only be uninhabitable worlds.

Maybe, but life is still possible on many non-garden worlds.  People live on Mars, for example, and it would be possible to terraform it into a garden world, buuuuut . . . .

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mars wrote...

Once considered a prospect for terraforming and colonization, the discovery of faster than light travel turned Mars[/b] into a quiet backwater.

Thanks to those wonderful, wonderful mass effect relays, nobody ever bothered fixing up the planet next door, depriving the survivors of an entire world upon which to settle.  Whoops!

Now that could be useful for raw resources but what about food. The Quarians and Turians can't eat the same food as the other races. Earth cannot produce food for them and Earth isn't really in a position to produce food for anyone

The Quarians already have food. The Liveships are dedicated to producing food for the fleet.  The Citadel is there, perhaps partially intact, and is no doubt stocked with some food, and capable of producing food to keep it's people alive. Those opperations would have to be expanded, of course, but we probably grow most of our own food in hydroponics labs and cloning vats by this point.

Also, it stands to reason that any system within FTL of Earth has already been explored and settled by Humanity.

Only the 1% of stars in the galaxy closest to the mass relays have been explored, because it's easier to use the mass relays.  There's no need to explore the stars closest to Earth, when you can bop over to another star cluster full of empty, exploitable worlds in half the time.

Actually, let me bring up another point here.  The Rachni Wars.

It is heavily implied in ME2 that the Rachni are a peaceful species that were turned against the Citadel races by the Reapers.  Why would they do that, so many centuries before the cycle ends?  Doesn't that risk exposure?

I believe it was because the Reapers didn't want the Citadel races to explore.  Reactivating dormant relays might lead them to find some clues from the previous cycle, and start asking questions that the Reapers don't want them to ask,

The entire point of the relay system was not to encourage races to spread out, it was to stop them from spreading out.

People were able to live on Mars because of technology that came from garden worlds, and because they received regular supply shipments from garden worlds. Terraforming takes too much time.

How do you propose we find and terraform these unexplored worlds, before everyone dies of starvation, or runs out of supplies to repair their crippled ships?

I agree that the relays kept us from exploring, but a post-war civilization is not the time to start funding this kind of project. Its too late.

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 31 mai 2012 - 05:42 .

[Shaani]

NS Wizdum wrote...

People were able to live on Mars because of technology that came from garden worlds, and because they received regular supply shipments from garden worlds.

That's still possible, to a lesser extent of course, but this is all suppisiton.  We're assuming that:

• There are billions and billions of  suvrivors of the battle, and that Earth cannot support them.
• That the Citadel exploded to the point where it cannot support life or be repaired by the Keepers.
• That the Earth (and maybe the Citadel) cannot supply Mars.
• That there are no garden worlds.
• That there are no colony worlds past the one Alpha Centarui.
• That an alternative to the relays is nowhere near close to being found.
• That nobody can make it home without one, difficult or not.  It's a long trip, but time might not matter so much to the Geth or the Asari, or whatever people become after Synthesis.

Even if that is the case, the Quarians have kept millions of people alive for hundreds of years without a world at all.  It's not pretty, but it can be done.

A society capable of colonizing the entire local area of the galaxy is simply not going to crash completely for lack of resources.

[The Night Mammoth]

Travel with in clusters will be difficult for a time because of the loss of infrastructure in the area.

Travel between clusters is virtually impossible for the foreseeable future without the Relays.

[Wulfram]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Travel with in clusters will be difficult for a time because of the loss of infrastructure in the area.

Travel between clusters is virtually impossible for the foreseeable future without the Relays.

Why?  Sure, it'll take a long time and may not be particularly commercially viable, but I don't see anything making it virtually imposssible.

Modifié par Wulfram, 31 mai 2012 - 06:37 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Wulfram wrote...

Travel between clusters is virtually impossible for the foreseeable future without the Relays.

Why?  Sure, it'll take a long time and may not be particularly commercially viable, but I don't see anything making it virtually imposssible.

For the forseeable future. 

[dreman9999]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

FTL is still around according to Walters (Oh god my brain.)

However, the Milky Way is 100,000+ lY (blue shifted) across. FTL isn't much help at those distances.

So, the galactic community is ****ed.

The galactic community as it was is ****ed. The system that are close together arn't.

[Wulfram]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

For the forseeable future. 

Why?  All you need is a ship with big fuel tanks and/or some sort of He3 skimming capacity, and a lot of patience.  What's unforeseeable about that?

[The Night Mammoth]

Wulfram wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

For the forseeable future. 

Why?  All you need is a ship with big fuel tanks and/or some sort of He3 skimming capacity, and a lot of patience.  What's unforeseeable about that?

Navigation. 

Distances involved. 

Discharging the core. 

Three problems far more important than fuel and food. 

Once you reach a gap between systems larger than fuel capacity or more distant that roughly 50 hours away, you are f*cked. That's if you can navigate there. Less than 1% of the galaxy has been explored in Mass Effect, you will be going into uncharted territory.

That's why I said for the forseeable future. 

No doubt eventually most problems will be solved, but that's going to take a while, and it'll only be after the situation stablalizes, and if the various parts of civilization find the Relays can't be fixed. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 31 mai 2012 - 06:50 .

[The Angry One]

Also if it's not commercially viable, what's the point?
Decade long expeditions at best? Yeah that'll be so much fun. The galactic community is toast for centuries.... if not thousands of years given that frankly disgusting epilogue.

Modifié par The Angry One, 31 mai 2012 - 06:54 .

[Funkdrspot]

Oh god not this again. everytime this comes up, retakers just act obtuse and whiny with a million selfwwdefeating micro excuses. i honestly think a new logical fallacy needs to created so i can sum up and dismiss this debate tactic in a single word

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 31 mai 2012 - 07:00 .

[Wulfram]

All you need is some sort of planet every time you need to discharge your engines - which should be more than 50 hours, since that's for an average ship, not one designed for endurance. Navigation shouldn't be a major issue - we've found quite a lot of extrasolar planets with current technology after all.

[The Night Mammoth]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Oh god not this again. everytime this comes up, retakers just act obtuse and whiny with a million selfwwdefeating micro excuses. i honestly think a new logical fallacy needs to created so i can sum up and dismiss this debate tactic in a single word

That would be productive.

Then your new logical fallacy can be ignored and we can all get on with discussing/not discussing as we please instead of having self-righteous ass-hats come along and try to oversee the discussion like some pseudo-arbiters of common sense. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 31 mai 2012 - 07:13 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Wulfram wrote...

All you need is some sort of planet every time you need to discharge your engines - which should be more than 50 hours, since that's for an average ship, not one designed for endurance.

And when you don't? 

You're f*cked. The risk is high, very high actually. 

Navigation shouldn't be a major issue - we've found quite a lot of extrasolar planets with current technology after all.

We're in a fixed location and we aren't trying to get there. 

It's like navigating out of a desert with no map or GPS, no reference points. 

[Wulfram]

You plan for your discharge points on your route before you set off, obviously.

[Shaani]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Oh god not this again. everytime this comes up, retakers just act obtuse and whiny with a million selfwwdefeating micro excuses. i honestly think a new logical fallacy needs to created so i can sum up and dismiss this debate tactic in a single word

It's not that, so much as everyone hates the ending, but some people appear to hate certain endings/parts of the ending so much that they have to find ways to make it worse, even if it's not strictly something that makes sense in terms of literary criticism.

[The Night Mammoth]

Wulfram wrote...

You plan for your discharge points on your route before you set off, obviously.

It's unexplored, you can't plan a route that's the point, yout would be pioneers. 

[Wulfram]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

It's unexplored, you can't plan a route that's the point, yout would be pioneers. 

You use telescopes and things, obviously.

We've already detected planets further away than Palaven and Sur'Kesh.

[The Angry One]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Oh god not this again. everytime this comes up, retakers just act obtuse and whiny with a million selfwwdefeating micro excuses. i honestly think a new logical fallacy needs to created so i can sum up and dismiss this debate tactic in a single word

Yes yes much better to believe in space magic, salvaging Reapers despite the inherent danger and FTL powered by pink ponies.

And they say those of us who want a happy ending are about the puppies.

Modifié par The Angry One, 31 mai 2012 - 07:36 .

[Warp92]

I'd like to mention that in the ME universe only 1% of the star systems have been thorougly mapped so... if you're traveling FTL and you crash your ship into a in discovered planet it could be very bad for you and the planet.

[The Night Mammoth]

Wulfram wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

It's unexplored, you can't plan a route that's the point, yout would be pioneers. 

You use telescopes and things, obviously.

We've already detected planets further away than Palaven and Sur'Kesh.

We're in a fixed position and all we know is that planets orbiting distant suns exist. 

We would have no idea how to get there given the hugely complicated route, requiring us to pick out individual stars, their distance, their orientation, and the distance between theses stars, whether they have wordls suitable for the discharge around them etc. 

[Warp92]

Forgot to mention using telescopes to discovered planets takes weeks to years depending how close it is to its apparent star..if its even in a star system. Some planets are not a part of any star system and they are called rogue planets.. have fun discovering well over hundreds of billions (if not trillions) of planets BTW that will take forever

[Wulfram]

I must be misunderstanding you, but we'll be in a fixed position in the future, no?

Discharge doesn't seem to be overly choosy about the type of planet, so I don't see the issue, really. You plan out the route from Earth, then carry it out.

edit:  We don't need to map out every planet in the galaxy, obviously.  Just enough to get us to the system we want to go to.  And I'm assuming that we've made at least some sort of technological advances here.

Modifié par Wulfram, 31 mai 2012 - 07:57 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Wulfram wrote...

I must be misunderstanding you, but we'll be in a fixed position in the future, no?

So the problems remain. 

Discharge doesn't seem to be overly choosy about the type of planet, so I don't see the issue, really. You plan out the route from Earth, then carry it out.

It requires a magnetic field of sufficient strength.

You could do it above Earth, but whether something like Pluto is viable is unknown. 

One mistake and everyone is dead. The chances of a mistake are high given the variables and margins. 

I'm not saying they won't work it out eventually, for for now, centuries most likely, everyone is stuck around Earth unilt the situation stabalizes. 

Two further points though.

All of this assumes that people wont try to rebuild the Relays again, which is most likely what everyone will try to do first. 

It also assumes the people of Mass Effect have the same-mindset. To them, interstellar travel to any reasonable degree is impossible.