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[NS Wizdum]

Wulfram wrote...

JPN17 wrote...

Pretty much. Galactic travel without the relays really only became possible on twitter after the ending was ripped apart and the Bioware reps were trying to save face. Everything in game says it's not possible, so it's really just another out of game retcon to add to the ever growing list.

Except the speed of regular FTL was established well before then, and once you have that there's no good reason why it should be impossible.

FTL is not a viable way to travel across the galaxy (at least in the mass effect universe). Its like trying to swim across the atlantic ocean, while towing a car.

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 31 mai 2012 - 09:58 .

[Shaani]

FTL stinks because the Reapers designed it to stink. They designed it to stink so that people would depend on the relay network. There's nothing saying that a non-stinky alternative won't be found eventually; it's only a matter of if they can establish a stable society in the area of space around Earth and it's closest stars until that time comes.

I believe they can.

[Xellith]

Shaani wrote...

FTL stinks because the Reapers designed it to stink. They designed it to stink so that people would depend on the relay network. There's nothing saying that a non-stinky alternative won't be found eventually; it's only a matter of if they can establish a stable society in the area of space around Earth and it's closest stars until that time comes.

I believe they can.

The reapers themselves who are the "pinnacle" of evolution can supposedly only travel at 30 FTL.  While its not impossible that there would be ways of achieving faster speeds - unless you can get faster than 100+ FTL... its just not going to allow the galactic community to become what it once was.

[Shaani]

Xellith wrote...

The reapers themselves who are the "pinnacle" of evolution can supposedly only travel at 30 FTL.  

The only thing the Reapers are the pinnacle of is wiping out all life in the galaxy, and even then, they have to cheat.

[D24O]

Xellith wrote...

The reapers themselves who are the "pinnacle" of evolution can supposedly only travel at 30 FTL. 

That's assuming they're really the pinnacle, and not just talking themselves up. I don't see why it's impossible for us to improve FTL  or make some hyperdrive or worm hole machine or something to travel great distances efficantly.

[Xellith]

Shaani wrote...

Xellith wrote...

The reapers themselves who are the "pinnacle" of evolution can supposedly only travel at 30 FTL.  

The only thing the Reapers are the pinnacle of is wiping out all life in the galaxy, and even then, they have to cheat.

Incorrect.  Unless you count making you pick the eradication ending (and it turns out to be true).  The reapers have only ever wiped out the Relay Network.  There are like 300 billion stars in the milky way.  There IS going to be life outside the relay network.  The reapers cannot and do not achieve their goal at any point.  There are just too many stars for the reapers plan to affect the entire galaxy - unless you involve the crucible.

[The Night Mammoth]

D24O wrote...

Xellith wrote...

The reapers themselves who are the "pinnacle" of evolution can supposedly only travel at 30 FTL. 

That's assuming they're really the pinnacle, and not just talking themselves up. I don't see why it's impossible for us to improve FTL  or make some hyperdrive or worm hole machine or something to travel great distances efficantly.

Certainly, but when?

Centuries? 

Millenia? 

I don't care for that situation, the possibilities of a better future for those Shepard won't ever know is not what motivates me to play time and time again. I was fighting for this iteration of the cycle and everything that comes with it. Once the Relays are gone that dissapears. 

Hence control, and headcanoning round the issues BioWare tried to raise. 

[katamuro]

FTL is still viable if they built better drives with longer time between discharges. At the moment its about 4300 times the speed of light. or 0.5 ly in an hour. So travel in citadel space is still quite viable but terminus systems and the quarian/geth controlled space is somewhere around 50 years away(including refuelling and discharge)

[Warp92]

NS Wizdum you just reminded me what Google maps tells you to do if you want directions from California to Honolulu .. it tells you to kayak across the pacific ocean then tells you to continue driving when you get there... don't think they make kayaks big enough to hold cars

[Xellith]

katamuro wrote...

FTL is still viable if they built better drives with longer time between discharges. At the moment its about 4300 times the speed of light. or 0.5 ly in an hour. So travel in citadel space is still quite viable but terminus systems and the quarian/geth controlled space is somewhere around 50 years away(including refuelling and discharge)

I already did some math projections on 50 FTL/day on the main page (which no species can do atm).  At 50 FTL you are looking a 4 year journey from earth to Rannoch @.@  (not including stops)

Modifié par Xellith, 31 mai 2012 - 10:20 .

[The Angry One]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hence control, and headcanoning round the issues BioWare tried to raise. 

Meanwhile, in BioWare Edmonton...

"Hmm... not enough people are picking our awesome best ending synthesis. I guess the arbitrary penalties in destroy weren't enough. Let's ruin control in the EC too!"

*thunderclap*

[D24O]

The Night Mammoth wrote...


Certainly, but when?

Centuries? 

Millenia? 

I don't care for that situation, the possibilities of a better future for those Shepard won't ever know is not what motivates me to play time and time again. I was fighting for this iteration of the cycle and everything that comes with it. Once the Relays are gone that dissapears. 

Hence control, and headcanoning round the issues BioWare tried to raise. 

Well, from what I understand, Stargazer is 10,000 years after ME3. So assuming that communities of people continue making scientific and technological advances, I'd say it's lilkey that crossing the galaxy might not be as daunting as it was in the games time.

[Shaani]

Xellith wrote...

Incorrect.  Unless you count making you pick the eradication ending (and it turns out to be true).  The reapers have only ever wiped out the Relay Network.  There are like 300 billion stars in the milky way.  There IS going to be life outside the relay network. 

Agreed, but the network itself is not entirely mapped.  There are dormant mass relays, and we don't know where they lead to, or if the relays on the other side are active and lead to still more places.  Only the Reapers ever know for sure how big the network is, since they seem to respond negatively to people getting too curious about the dormant relays (see: the Rachni War).

Also, my theory is that the Reapers move them around to wherever life is going to spring up eventually before departing.  The Charon relay could have been planted there in the early stages of life on Earth, for spaient life to eventually discover and use.

[The Night Mammoth]

The Angry One wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hence control, and headcanoning round the issues BioWare tried to raise. 

Meanwhile, in BioWare Edmonton...

"Hmm... not enough people are picking our awesome best ending synthesis. I guess the arbitrary penalties in destroy weren't enough. Let's ruin control in the EC too!"

*thunderclap*

Curses! Foiled by BioWare's nefarious genius, but I take heart. 

Now my actual headcanon rewrite will be validated! Huzzah!

[The Night Mammoth]

D24O wrote...

Well, from what I understand, Stargazer is 10,000 years after ME3. So assuming that communities of people continue making scientific and technological advances, I'd say it's lilkey that crossing the galaxy might not be as daunting as it was in the games time.

Sure, eventually life uh, finds a way.

The time it'll take, and the fact it all happens off screen when all the characters I know are likely dead and when Shepard is disgraced by having a pretentious 'the' in front of her name, makes me not really care for that situation, so I reject BioWare's version of events and substitute my own. 

[katamuro]

Xellith wrote...

katamuro wrote...

FTL is still viable if they built better drives with longer time between discharges. At the moment its about 4300 times the speed of light. or 0.5 ly in an hour. So travel in citadel space is still quite viable but terminus systems and the quarian/geth controlled space is somewhere around 50 years away(including refuelling and discharge)

I already did some math projections on 50 FTL/day on the main page (which no species can do atm).  At 50 FTL you are looking a 4 year journey from earth to Rannoch @.@  (not including stops)

Yes at 50ly a day yes. But i am talking about speeds currently achievable and if you think about it a huge quarian fleet will travel slower due to ships beeing quite worn out. Plus all the refueling stops and drive discharges would take a long time. So around 50 years is an estimate. Then again i dont think they would mind that so much after all they have been going around galaxy for 300 years. 

[D24O]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Sure, eventually life uh, finds a way.

The time it'll take, and the fact it all happens off screen when all the characters I know are likely dead and when Shepard is disgraced by having a pretentious 'the' in front of her name, makes me not really care for that situation, so I reject BioWare's version of events and substitute my own. 

That's well and good. I hate that all we get is a vague snapshot of 10k years in the future too, but my coping mechanism is to try to rationalize it so that what I did actually had some meaning, at least until I see EC.

[Xellith]

Shaani wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Incorrect.  Unless you count making you pick the eradication ending (and it turns out to be true).  The reapers have only ever wiped out the Relay Network.  There are like 300 billion stars in the milky way.  There IS going to be life outside the relay network. 

Agreed, but the network itself is not entirely mapped.  There are dormant mass relays, and we don't know where they lead to, or if the relays on the other side are active and lead to still more places.  Only the Reapers ever know for sure how big the network is, since they seem to respond negatively to people getting too curious about the dormant relays (see: the Rachni War).

Also, my theory is that the Reapers move them around to wherever life is going to spring up eventually before departing.  The Charon relay could have been planted there in the early stages of life on Earth, for spaient life to eventually discover and use.

I did some number crunching. Here is just an example;
25000 Relays each leading to 1000stars = 2500000 stars.  You would need a HELL of a lot of relays.  And the relays dont get moved around.  Otherwise they wouldnt be where the protheans said they would be.  I dont believe the relays move unless natural disasters move them - like the Mu relay.

Remember the archives on mars said that there was a relay in the sol system.

Modifié par Xellith, 31 mai 2012 - 10:33 .

[NS Wizdum]

Shaani wrote...

FTL stinks because the Reapers designed it to stink. They designed it to stink so that people would depend on the relay network. There's nothing saying that a non-stinky alternative won't be found eventually; it's only a matter of if they can establish a stable society in the area of space around Earth and it's closest stars until that time comes.

I believe they can.

If FTL is only bad because the Reapers didn't want us to have it, then why do the Reapers not posses epic FTL of their own? in 50 billion years they managed to double our "current" FTL speeds. They still required the use of the Relays to get out of dark space in a reasonable amount of time.

[Shaani]

NS Wizdum wrote...

If FTL is only bad because the Reapers didn't want us to have it, then why do the Reapers not posses epic FTL of their own? in 50 billion years they managed to double our "current" FTL speeds. They still required the use of the Relays to get out of dark space in a reasonable amount of time.

Reapers are eternal.  They don't age, and virtually nothing can stop them.  There's no such thing as "reasonable time" for an immortal.  The entire purpose of the Reapers is to stop technological development dead in it's tracks at a certain point.  They probably don't spend much time doing R&D.  They have what they need, and that's it.

The purpose of the Citadel relay is to begin the invasion with a decapitation strike and to capture every single piece of relevant population data in a single blow, not because they're in a hurry.

[FamilyManFirst]

Shaani wrote...

FTL stinks because the Reapers designed it to stink. They designed it to stink so that people would depend on the relay network. There's nothing saying that a non-stinky alternative won't be found eventually; it's only a matter of if they can establish a stable society in the area of space around Earth and it's closest stars until that time comes.

I believe they can.

There's also nothing saying that a non-stinky alternative will be found be found eventually, either.  In fact, there's absolutely no support for such an idea in the game.  As such, this is wishful thinking.  Believe it if you want, but don't ask anybody else to; they have no reason to.

As things stand at the end of the game, barring some unforseeable breakthrough (or retcon), the galaxy is destined for a Dark Age.  Regular FTL may ameliorate it some, but not much.  Famine and disease throughout the galaxy is practically inevitable, as civilization is currently built on the transport made possible by the Mass Relays.  Colonies will die out through lack of supply.  Heck, some of the homeworlds may die out, or fall to barbarism, if their local infrastructure has been damaged badly enough by the Reaper assault.

It's all well and good to say, "The Mass Relays are inherently evil, as they were put in place by the Reapers to stunt our growth!  It's good that they were destroyed!"  However, you get to explain that to the men, women, and children who are starving because they can no longer get the food they need to survive through the now-defunct Mass Relays.

[Joe1962]

It's all good guys.

During this last weekend event, I made an Engineer named Zefram Cohcrane and promoted him.

So, by the time my Shep heals up from those burns, they'll be able to reach the Normandy survivors in no time at all. They will have warp drive available to them.

Then, my Shep and Liara, with Garrus and Tali will retire somewhere and live off the royalities from the vids.

Yeah, I'm that cool.

[Funkdrspot]

The Angry One wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

no u

Is all I'm reading. Oh well, moving along, nothing to see here.

which proves my point. its all you hear b/c youtre too emotionally invested for it to be otherwise. so we can try to paint eachother as purposely obtuse but ill stack my record against yours any day. every thread youre in youre infecting with your constant negativity and repetition of "space magic" or "artistic integrity". when people prove you wrong you just leave and reappear later, having learned nothing. your anger has turned you into a troll.

[Shaani]

FamilyManFirst wrote...

There's also nothing saying that a non-stinky alternative will be found be found eventually, either.  In fact, there's absolutely no support for such an idea in the game.  As such, this is wishful thinking.  Believe it if you want, but don't ask anybody else to; they have no reason to.

I never asked anyone else to.  I am just saying, the existence of the mass relays proves that you can exceed normal FTL.  It's only a matter of figuring out how it works.

What I do question is people's  . . .  let's say, "emotionally charged response" to the ending, to the point where they think that Buzz Aldrian is wearing a grass skirt and clutching a spear in that ending, or that the Normandy crashed on Alia and now they're all going to die and become stupid because Bioware hates you and wanted to screw you.  If Bioware wanted to do that, they'd have made one ending where everyone dies.

The truth is, they just didn't pull off a satisfying ending, like many trilogies before them.  You don't need to invent reasons to find the ending unsatisfying.

It's all well and good to say, "The Mass Relays are inherently evil, as they were put in place by the Reapers to stunt our growth!  It's good that they were destroyed!"  However, you get to explain that to the men, women, and children who are starving because they can no longer get the food they need to survive through the now-defunct Mass Relays.

The thing is, those people are not starving because someone chose to destroy the mass relays.  They're starving because nobody ever thought "hey, maybe we should find out how to build a mass relay, in case something happens to the one this system has."

Assuming anyone actually is starving.  I'm still not sold on the idea that the fleet at the end has more people than can be supported by this entire region of Outer Space, or that isolated colonies exist that weren't abandoned or picked off by the Reapers or Cerberus.

[Patchwork]

Reapers have better FTL but they seem as reliant on the relays as the people they're cultivating. The only difference is they understand the tech and I assume have the galaxy mapped via the relays.

Another assumption is that after they have culled the space faring species the Reapers then do a sweep of the rest of the galaxy and assess who is too advanced to be allowed to exsist into the next cycle and who is likely to be dominant next time.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 31 mai 2012 - 11:40 .