192 réponses à ce sujet

[D24O]

You know, if this is the kind of story they were going for, I think they should've done a better job making it clear what direction they were taking. The ME series really didn't vibe nhilistic until the last 20 minutes, kind of an odd, almost out of place twist.

[MyChemicalBromance]

D24O wrote...

You know, if this is the kind of story they were going for, I think they should've done a better job making it clear what direction they were taking. The ME series really didn't vibe nhilistic until the last 20 minutes, kind of an odd, almost out of place twist.

I think that's the point. We wouldn't have cared so much about winning if it had been nihilism since the start. In the last few moments, we had to make a decision beyond our understanding and our comfort zone. That, makes it an ending to me, which is different than just the place the story stops.

[D24O]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...
I think that's the point. We wouldn't have cared so much about winning if it had been nihilism since the start. In the last few moments, we had to make a decision beyond our understanding and our comfort zone. That, makes it an ending to me, which is different than just the place the story stops.

I can certainly see your point, although I don't agree. I just can't reconcile the ME series as a whole with the ending, IMO they really should've presented the ideas more overtly than they did. Even with the dark tone, the moments where we won stand out as more hopeful, it just comes across as a jarring disconnect that I don't find to be a satisfying method of storytelling. Plus I think the debates on the forum might not be so emotional if we knew where the story was really headed.

[MyChemicalBromance]

D24O wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...
I think that's the point. We wouldn't have cared so much about winning if it had been nihilism since the start. In the last few moments, we had to make a decision beyond our understanding and our comfort zone. That, makes it an ending to me, which is different than just the place the story stops.

I can certainly see your point, although I don't agree. I just can't reconcile the ME series as a whole with the ending, IMO they really should've presented the ideas more overtly than they did. Even with the dark tone, the moments where we won stand out as more hopeful, it just comes across as a jarring disconnect that I don't find to be a satisfying method of storytelling. Plus I think the debates on the forum might not be so emotional if we knew where the story was really headed.

I think a lot of the darker points are foreshadowed when talking to Legion and to Javik. Yes, the game is definitely about hope (it sure doesn't end on a nihilistic tone), but I honestly would have been underwhelmed if the story hadn't acknowledged that there are some things hope can't save.

I think the story is done. That is one thing I will always be glad about; that they actually had the artistic integrity to end a series long before it went dry.

[Jawsomebob]

tldr bro

[MyChemicalBromance]

Jawsomebob wrote...

tldr bro

Thanks for the bump anyway.

[D24O]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

I think a lot of the darker points are foreshadowed when talking to Legion and to Javik. Yes, the game is definitely about hope (it sure doesn't end on a nihilistic tone), but I honestly would have been underwhelmed if the story hadn't acknowledged that there are some things hope can't save.

I think the story is done. That is one thing I will always be glad about; that they actually had the artistic integrity to end a series long before it went dry.

Yeah, 3 was darker, but as I saw it, that actually accentuates the victories we do pull out of a seemingly hopeless situation. I think the bright moments are actually made brighter because of the contrast to the generally dark tone the 3rd game takes. And yes, in the EC, I don't really think it's as nhilistic as it was in the OE, they od give us enough room to interpert it in the way we want. 

I was never really too invested in the reaper story as much as I was invested in the setting and the Characters, so with the EC giving solid confirmation that they live on, really I don't mind much what direction the authors want to take as much as I did with the OE.

[MyChemicalBromance]

D24O wrote...

I was never really too invested in the reaper story as much as I was invested in the setting and the Characters, so with the EC giving solid confirmation that they live on, really I don't mind much what direction the authors want to take as much as I did with the OE.

I definitely think that's a big part of the hate. It seems to me that a lot of people didn't play Mass Effect at all for the backstory, and instead played for the characters. I can see why some people feel an ending without their characters is way off the mark. I have a theory that people entering at Mass Effect 2 were affected the worst, mainly because the Reapers were just another group of bad guys to them, and the characters were the biggest focus of Mass Effect 2.

[D24O]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

I definitely think that's a big part of the hate. It seems to me that a lot of people didn't play Mass Effect at all for the backstory, and instead played for the characters. I can see why some people feel an ending without their characters is way off the mark. I have a theory that people entering at Mass Effect 2 were affected the worst, mainly because the Reapers were just another group of bad guys to them, and the characters were the biggest focus of Mass Effect 2.

Well the reapers, while there, were always in the background, it was pretty easy to forget about them sometimes, especially in 2. ME2 really was a self contained, character focused story, and I agree you're right in thinking that 2 shifted the story so far towards being character and setting focused that people just lost a lot of interest in the Reapers. I can say that happened to me. 

[Psychlonus]

I'm almost finished with War and Peace but I vastly underestimated the time it would take. I won't make the same mistake again whenever I read the OP.

[Conniving_Eagle]

@The Original Post,

To each his own, there is an innumerable amount of ways to interperet one's place in the universe/existence, who needs the wisdom of our peers and predecessors? I've entertained too many possibilities -- faith, logic, metaphysics -- to discern a correct one. Right now, I can't believe in anything. When someone asks me, "What do you believe in?" Or, "What do you believe will happen to you when you die?" I reply "I am waiting to find out." No philosophy is anymore valid than another. As flawed as it is, Christianity is just as likely to be true as Judaism, Buddhism, Shinto, etc. Hell, even something like the Matrix is plausible, where this plane of existence is nothing more than an illusion for our minds, and in this period of 'life' we will never have the answer.

@Applying this to Mass Effect.

However, if you genuinely commend Casey Hudson/Mac Walters for trying to acheive this with the ending, then you are just as idiotic as them. The fact that two pseudo-intellectuals used the ending of an epic video game as an opportunity to subliminally cram their philisophical bull**** down the throats of its fans is not something to be lauded, it is the quintessence of selfish douchebaggery. At the end of the day, Mass Effect is a story, and the ending is narratively and thematically inconsistent with the rest of it, which is bad writing.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 14 juillet 2012 - 04:51 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

@The Original Post,

To each his own, there is an innumerable amount of ways to interperet one's place in the universe/existence, who needs the wisdom of our peers and predecessors? I've entertained too many possibilities -- faith, logic, metaphysics -- to discern a correct one. Right now, I can't believe in anything. When someone asks me, "What do you believe in?" Or, "What do you believe will happen to you when you die?" I reply "I am waiting to find out." No philosophy is anymore valid than another. As flawed as it is, Christianity is just as likely to be true as Judaism, Buddhism, Shinto, etc. Hell, even something like the Matrix is plausible, where this plane of existence is nothing more than an illusion for our minds, and in this period of 'life' we will never have the answer.

@Applying this to Mass Effect.

However, if you genuinely commend Casey Hudson/Mac Walters for trying to acheive this with the ending, then you are just as idiotic as them. The fact that two pseudo-intellectuals used the ending of an epic video game as an opportunity to subliminally cram their philisophical bull**** down the throats of its fans is not something to be lauded, it is the quintessence of selfish douchebaggery. At the end of the day, Mass Effect is a story, and the ending is narratively and thematically inconsistent with the rest of it, which is bad writing.

You don't hold any beliefs... except a firm belief in western narrative structure?

[MyChemicalBromance]

http://badassdigest....-mass-effect-3/

[blueumi]

every time I think the ending can't anger me any more then I read this and think why did I wast money on this

I don't play games for anything but to be entertained and this is anything but that

keep your art bioware I don't want it

[MyChemicalBromance]

blueumi wrote...

every time I think the ending can't anger me any more then I read this and think why did I wast money on this

I don't play games for anything but to be entertained and this is anything but that

keep your art bioware I don't want it

You should read that link just above you.

[blueumi]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

blueumi wrote...

every time I think the ending can't anger me any more then I read this and think why did I wast money on this

I don't play games for anything but to be entertained and this is anything but that

keep your art bioware I don't want it

You should read that link just above you.

I hate the ending why should I care that this person loves it wont stop me hating it

Modifié par blueumi, 07 août 2012 - 04:02 .

[JShepppp]

blueumi wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

blueumi wrote...

every time I think the ending can't anger me any more then I read this and think why did I wast money on this

I don't play games for anything but to be entertained and this is anything but that

keep your art bioware I don't want it

You should read that link just above you.

I hate the ending why should I care that this person loves it wont stop me hating it

Perhaps, if I may be so humbly bold, no one can make you stop hating it, in which case we should accept it as fact and talk about other things.

[MyChemicalBromance]

JShepppp wrote...

Perhaps, if I may be so humbly bold, no one can make you stop hating it, in which case we should accept it as fact and talk about other things.

That kind of mentality ain't welcome 'round BSN...

[hostaman]

"Bioware Attempted To Tell The Story That Cannot Be Told"

You mean the Silmarillion?

[CosmicGnosis]

Fascinating thread. I will ponder this...

[CosmicGnosis]

So what you're saying is:

- Synthetics freak out organics because they represent a completely different form of existence that doesn't acknowledge organic values and is superior in almost every way.

- Because synthetics are superior to organics (in terms of longevity and processing power), organics will ultimately have no place in the universe as the eons pass. Synthetics will inevitably come to dominate an aging universe that grows increasingly more hostile to organics.

- In order to survive, organics must join with synthetics in a Synthesis. Only then will organic life have the hope of finding meaning in their existence, and only then will synthetics come to understand their existence.

Am I on the right track?

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 01 novembre 2012 - 04:33 .

[ghostz82]

By the way Mass Effect is a video game simple as that and nothing in it is real including the story. It's plain science fiction and it is just a way to have fun and pass time. I don't take video games that seriously since all they are to me is a game. In no way can you compare life or anything in life to a video game and its storyline. I pretty much knew this was gonna be a big load of you know what when I even read the word religion lol. C'mon now tell me this was sll some big joke or maybe a cry for attention because anyone who takes a game this seriously must have no life.

Here's my advice if your old enough which you must be because judging by the effort you put into this and your presention you seem educated but slightly under the influence of LSD, shrooms. or acid. Find a girlfriend get a good job then maybe even get married have some kids and have a life then you'll see that life and the real world is nothing like a video game and the two cannot be compared. As a matter of fact a game is much more fun and even easier then life so maybe that's why you choose to live in a video game.

[CosmicGnosis]

ghostz82 wrote...

By the way Mass Effect is a video game simple as that and nothing in it is real including the story. It's plain science fiction and it is just a way to have fun and pass time. I don't take video games that seriously since all they are to me is a game. In no way can you compare life or anything in life to a video game and its storyline. I pretty much knew this was gonna be a big load of you know what when I even read the word religion lol. C'mon now tell me this was sll some big joke or maybe a cry for attention because anyone who takes a game this seriously must have no life.

Here's my advice if your old enough which you must be because judging by the effort you put into this and your presention you seem educated but slightly under the influence of LSD, shrooms. or acid. Find a girlfriend get a good job then maybe even get married have some kids and have a life then you'll see that life and the real world is nothing like a video game and the two cannot be compared. As a matter of fact a game is much more fun and even easier then life so maybe that's why you choose to live in a video game.

Because books and movies mean nothing. Stories mean nothing. Nihilism!

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 01 novembre 2012 - 05:09 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

ghostz82 wrote...
Videogames are for nerds.

I have nothing more to add.

Thanks for playing!

CosmicGnosis wrote...

So what you're saying is:

- Synthetics freak out organics because they represent a completely different form of existence that doesn't acknowledge organic values and is superior in almost every way.

- Because synthetics are superior to organics (in terms of longevity and processing power), organics will ultimately have no place in the universe as the eons pass. Synthetics will inevitably come to dominate an aging universe that grows increasingly more hostile to organics.

- In order to survive, organics must join with synthetics in a Synthesis. Only then will organic life have the hope of finding meaning in their existence, and only then will synthetics come to understand their existence.

Am I on the right track?

Yes on the first point.

Yes on the second point. Even if the synthetics ignore organics, organics will die anyway, because they're organics and organics die.

Yes on the third point. Both Synthetics and Organics (even Synthesis Synthetics) are pointless, but anything immortal could live long enough to create true meaning, though I find that unlikely.

I will admit that I have trouble seeing what Synthetics get out of Synthesis, but if I could understand that then we wouldn't need Synthesis.

[CosmicGnosis]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

So what you're saying is:

- Synthetics freak out organics because they represent a completely different form of existence that doesn't acknowledge organic values and is superior in almost every way.

- Because synthetics are superior to organics (in terms of longevity and processing power), organics will ultimately have no place in the universe as the eons pass. Synthetics will inevitably come to dominate an aging universe that grows increasingly more hostile to organics.

- In order to survive, organics must join with synthetics in a Synthesis. Only then will organic life have the hope of finding meaning in their existence, and only then will synthetics come to understand their existence.

Am I on the right track?

Yes on the first point.

Yes on the second point. Even if the synthetics ignore organics, organics will die anyway, because they're organics and organics die.

Yes on the third point. Both Synthetics and Organics (even Synthesis Synthetics) are pointless, but anything immortal could live long enough to create true meaning, though I find that unlikely.

I will admit that I have trouble seeing what Synthetics get out of Synthesis, but if I could understand that then we wouldn't need Synthesis.

I like this, but do I actually believe it? Hm... I still don't think this justifies making a choice that physically alters all life in the galaxy.