166 réponses à ce sujet

[Karrie788]

I sincerely hope that's not the actual reason.

[Barquiel]

Karrie788 wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

She was supposed to. It was cut from the game. Check out the leaked script you has choose between her and VS.

I was surprised we didn't get a Virmire 2.0 in ME3. Did they give the reason as to why it was cut?

The Virmire version 2.0 thing on Thessia was in the old script that was in a separate file to the complete script that leaked.

[Quething]

Karrie788 wrote...

I sincerely hope that's not the actual reason.

Perhaps they thought it was redundant to put the VS in the same position twice (as though the coup writing for them was so much better <_<), but it's pretty easy to be like "they suddenly realized that might mean some people would kill off their precious Liara!" and not sound nearly as tongue-in-cheek as you ideally should.

[kumquats]

Karrie788 wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

She was supposed to. It was cut from the game. Check out the leaked script you has choose between her and VS.

I was surprised we didn't get a Virmire 2.0 in ME3. Did they give the reason as to why it was cut?

Pick the default worst case scenario with Sheploo, beat the game on Insanity and then ask again why Liara has to survive until the end.

[Karrie788]

kumquats wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

She was supposed to. It was cut from the game. Check out the leaked script you has choose between her and VS.

I was surprised we didn't get a Virmire 2.0 in ME3. Did they give the reason as to why it was cut?

Pick the default worst case scenario with Sheploo, beat the game on Insanity and then ask again why Liara has to survive until the end.

*sigh* I was not commenting on Liara not being able to die, sorry about the confusion, although I think the real issue here is "why can't we get rid of Liara at some point in the game when we can do so with every single other character".

In ME3 the galaxy is at war, Shepard has to suffer losses, so I think a Virmire kind of situation would have been appropriate. With or without Liara.

Modifié par Karrie788, 31 mai 2012 - 10:09 .

[AsheraII]

Maybe they have something planned for the next series of Mass Effect games involving Liara?

[Aurora313]

AsheraII wrote...

Maybe they have something planned for the next series of Mass Effect games involving Liara?

I pray not. She's have enough spotlight, far too much in my opinion.

[kumquats]

Karrie788 wrote...

*sigh* I was not commenting on Liara not being able to die, sorry about the confusion, although I think the real issue here is "why can't we get rid of Liara at some point in the game when we can do so with every single other character".

In ME3 the galaxy is at war, Shepard has to suffer losses, so I think a Virmire kind of situation would have been appropriate. With or without Liara.

You CAN'T get rid of Vega and EDI, YOU CAN'T. In the worst case scenario, it's actually very hard to keep the VS in the first place. I couldn't save Kaidan!
So just pretend, you can keep Ashley or Kaidan.

-> Liara Biotic
-> EDI Tech
-> Vega Soldier

-> Ashley Soldier
or
-> Kaidan Sentinel

I'm thinking about the people who are starting with Mass Effect3, so let's pretend they don't have the Ashs DLC, shall we?
So you want a Virmire Situtation, where you have NO CHANCE, to save four Squadmates. So you HAVE to beat the game, with THREE Squadmates.

Stop encouraging BW to be able to get rid of Squadmates, that only creates more problems, then it's worth it.

[Karrie788]

All right, calm down, no need to fight over our opinions. Didn't mean to offend.

You have a point about EDI and Vega, I guess people don't mind it as much since they only appear in ME3, you don't have to stick around them as much as Liara, Garrus, Tali or the VS.
 
That being said, I don't see why it's a problem to be able to get rid of squadmates. For people starting with ME3, I don't know if Garrus and Tali are dead in the default scenario, are they?
As for an import game, either from ME1 or 2, it's quite easy to keep people alive during the suicide mission, to the point people actually choose to get rid of some of their squadmates, just for the sake of roleplay. Besides, if you end up with three squadmates with an import game, you can still finish the game.

Then again: just my opinion.

[Saodade]

So she can repopulate the asari world ?

[Warior135]

GenericEnemy wrote...

If you're so desperate to see her die in some form...

www.youtube.com/watch

If Garrus was replaced by EDI, That would be the part in the game where I go:

*Gasp*....................YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Modifié par Warior135, 31 mai 2012 - 11:52 .

[Quething]

Karrie788 wrote...

You have a point about EDI and Vega, I guess people don't mind it as much

Some of us do. 

Here's the thing about the whole "needing at least two squadmates" thing. You only need two squadmates. The game does not break with anything short of that. Actually the game doesn't even break with Shep solo, as you may notice from multiple solo levels through 2, 3 and DLC, and there's absolutely no reason they couldn't have written the game such that Shepard could attempt to solo - if you want to make the game that hard on yourself, that's a choice you have every chance to not make - but for the sake of all those missions where you have to make one squadmate sit out and fix something, let's go with the two-man minimum.

You only need two squadmates.
You are guaranteed to have a minimum of four available to you.

There is absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to choose which of those four die, should some of them die. There's no reason whatsoever to restrict "possible squad deaths in 3" to "Virmire Survivor." None. You could write the game such that Vega could have a building collapse on him, Liara could get spaced, EDI's sexbot could get blown up or never retrieved or hell, you could just order her not to use it because it's dangerous Cerberus tech. And all of those things would be options available to the player, just as shooting the VS during the coup is an option available to the player, that you are by no means remotely required to take. And they could then put sanity checks on those options, just like they did with Wrex at Virmire, so that if you're down to two squadmates those options stop being available.

"We need Liara because squad size" is not a valid arguement.

[kumquats]

Karrie788 wrote...
I don't see why it's a problem to be able to get rid of squadmates

Well I spoiler ahead.

- Garrus: completely useless for the story. Liara can and has to replace everything on Palavan. Nothing will change if he is dead. SM robbed one of the fan favourite characters of the chance, to be important for the plot. Yay for killing Squadis.
^
With that in mind, look at: Mordin, Grunt, Zaeed, Samara,  Jacob and Miranda. They all sit in the same boat, thanks to the SM.

Legion is a special case, his death is canon, it's just a matter of when and how, but he WILL die.
Tali/Wrex are special, too because they got multiple scenarios.

Kasumi: STG or Hanar homeworld.
Thane: Lost Salarian Councilor.
Jack: Lost student.

Without Thane you will also have a hard time saving Kaidan or Ashley. I honestly don't know if you can save them with enough Rep. Don't know if I want to test that, tbh.

So what did we gain from killing of all the ME2 Squadis? Only Tali/Wrex and Legion give us scenarios to play with. 6 Squadis are worthless and three Squadis will punish the player.
In my opinion it did more harm then anything else.

I say: STOP getting rid of Squadis. Let them be alive and if they die, involve them into interesting scenarios and don't make their deaths worthless. They don't deserve such a treatment.

So yeah, I will defend Liara, Vega and EDI. What they did to the ME2 cast was unfair and I don't want anymore Squadis to suffer the same fate.

Quething wrote...

"We need Liara because squad size" is not a valid arguement.

It's a design choice that makes sense, you base your argument on something, because you don't like it.
olol

Quething wrote...
You are guaranteed to have a minimum of four available to you.

False. I can even make a screenshot if you want.

Modifié par kumquats, 31 mai 2012 - 12:20 .

[Karrie788]

@Quething: Yeah I guess that if you can't stand James or EDI, having them in your squad no matter what must be a pain. I wish you could tell EDI not to transfer into her body. I didn't need her as a squaddie, plus her romance subplot with Joker was pretty pointless.

kumquats wrote...

So what did we gain from killing of all the ME2 Squadis? Only Tali/Wrex and Legion give us scenarios to play with. 6 Squadis are worthless and three Squadis will punish the player.
In my opinion it did more harm then anything else.

I say: STOP getting rid of Squadis. Let them be alive and if they die, involve them into interesting scenarios and don't make their deaths worthless. They don't deserve such a treatment.

So yeah, I will defend Liara, Vega and EDI. What they did to the ME2 cast was unfair and I don't want anymore Squadis to suffer the same fate.

Personnally I have no problem with my squaddies not being vital to the plot, it didn't bother me in Baldur's Gate for instance. The interaction I got with Garrus was awesome, I didn't need more. But to each their own, I guess.

Well it wouldn't be a suicide mission if there was no possibility to walk out of it with a few casualties, right? I liked the possibility of losing people if I screwed up. It gave more weight to my decisions and made the feeling of victory at the end of ME2 truly amazing.
Plus, if you really couldn't stand a character, you could get rid of him/her.

Granted, I never got a game in which Thane was dead and I never had any problems saving the VS, so I can't say. Was Kirrahe alive in your game? Were you able to save the Salarian Councillor?

Modifié par Karrie788, 31 mai 2012 - 12:38 .

[kumquats]

Karrie788 wrote...

Well it wouldn't be a suicide mission if there was no possibility to walk out of it with a few casualties, right? I liked the possibility of losing people if I screwed up. It gave more weight to my decisions and made the feeling of victory at the end of ME2 truly amazing.
Plus, if you really couldn't stand a character, you could get rid of him/her.

I do mind sensless deaths for the sake of drama. There is no need to kill 6 Squadmates at all, there is nothing to be gained of their deaths. They could even have made those 6 Squadis available as alternative choices for Liara, Vega or EDI .<- Replayability.
Giving the player the choice to kill Tali, Thane, Jack, Kasumi and Legion, would have been enough. All their deaths would have given us scenarios to play with. No one died for nothing.

SM is a big design fail, not everything in a game has to be created to please the fanbase. SM is the reason why they have to get rid of Virmire 2.0

Plus, if you really couldn't stand a character, you could get rid of him/her

I expect game designers to make choices, that the gameplay in every difficulty and every scenario runs smoothly.
I don't want them to care if some player doesn't like Grunt.
SM is nothing more then a bad joke.

Modifié par kumquats, 31 mai 2012 - 01:22 .

[Karrie788]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I thought the SM was brilliant, if a bit short.

[Fox In The Box]

She can die, technically. Though not before the very end. I assume the reason why is in part because she was useful to the story and in part coincidence and not some sinister plot on Bioware's behalf.

[Ecrulis]

Here's the thing, story wise I loved the SM it just felt epic but design wise it caused problems in ME3 call it laziness or a rushed game or what have you but because of the very high number of possibilities of who is dead and who is not all of the ME2 cast got relegated to cameos save for garrus and tali.

[IElitePredatorI]

Asari never die Shepard, they just go M.I.A. On a serious note, why would you want her to die?

Modifié par IElitePredatorI, 31 mai 2012 - 02:08 .

[Stalker]

IElitePredatorI wrote...

Asari never die Shepard, they just go M.I.A. On a serious note, why would you want her to die?

For fairness reasons towards everyone else? Every squadmate can die.
From your point of view:  Doesn't it build a lot of tension if your favorite character is able to die? (not necessairly saying that she is yours)

There is absolutely no reason why there is no dramatic death scene in all of the trilogy. 
I mean, it's obvious that she is essential in every major plot-point, but it's not like BioWare has never used cheap replacements...

I like her (pre-ME3), but there should be some kind of death for her, as well.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 31 mai 2012 - 02:18 .

[yesikareyes]

She dies but you just can't see the scene. They cut her death scene but she can die.

[bas_kon]

Because of the azure (asari's penis) they make them immortal, magic and asexualized lol

[IElitePredatorI]

Mr Massakka wrote...

IElitePredatorI wrote...

Asari never die Shepard, they just go M.I.A. On a serious note, why would you want her to die?

For fairness reasons towards everyone else? Every squadmate can die.
From your point of view:  Doesn't it build a lot of tension if your favorite character is able to die? (not necessairly saying that she is yours)

There is absolutely no reason why there is no dramatic death scene in all of the trilogy. 
I mean, it's obvious that she is essential in every major plot-point, but it's not like BioWare has never used cheap replacements...

I like her (pre-ME3), but there should be some kind of death for her, as well.

Ah ok, sorry for my previous post.

[shepskisaac]

kumquats wrote...

So yeah, I will defend Liara, Vega and EDI. What they did to the ME2 cast was unfair and I don't want anymore Squadis to suffer the same fate.

The biggest problem was that they decided to put Tali & Garrus as perma squadmates AGAIN. Out of 12 SM characters, they picked 2 who already were squadmates twice.

[KingWrex]

IsaacShep wrote...

kumquats wrote...

So yeah, I will defend Liara, Vega and EDI. What they did to the ME2 cast was unfair and I don't want anymore Squadis to suffer the same fate.

The biggest problem was that they decided to put Tali & Garrus as perma squadmates AGAIN. Out of 12 SM characters, they picked 2 who already were squadmates twice.

Well those two are fan favorites, I know for a fact Garrus was always meant to be on the squad, but I remember reading somewhere Tali wasn't supposed to be. Not sure if that was speculation though. Ultimately they still could of set up situation where characters that didn't play a big role in the story (Grunt, Samara, Zaeed, Jacob, Kasumi, Jack) could have been optional squadmates. For example swap out Vega for Grunt or Tali for Jack; with the other two becoming war assets or something.