166 réponses à ce sujet

[DevilBeast]

Landon7001 wrote...

me 1 squad:
wrex can die on virmire and then in me 3 if you betray him
ashley and kaidan can die on virmire and then during citadel coup
garrus can die during me 2 suicide mission
tali can die during me 2 suicode mission and then in me 3 on rannoch

me 2 squad:
ALL can die during suicide mission, ALL can die if not loyal in me 3 one way or another

Liara?


dont give me the beam crap, do we see her die? no? what se does if there is magically reappear on the normandy after
{i guess joker and james are in this category as well, not edi if u pick destroy}

Well, we don´t see EDI die either when you pick destroy. And the same goes for all other synthetics apart from the reapers themselves.

[DevilBeast]

Aurora313 wrote...

Shepard is alive because of Liara, yes, but after that I really wish I could have killed her. Hell, I would actively done it. She's not relevant to me after Shepard comes back. Just a tag along. And she's the teammate I am forced to keep. Which pisses me off.

And I´m annoyed that Garrus and Tali have "reserved" squadmate spots in all three games. Would have loved for other (maybe someone from the rest of the ME2 squad or a completely new member like Shiala or Aria).

[Landon7001]

Karrie788 wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

She was supposed to. It was cut from the game. Check out the leaked script you has choose between her and VS.

I was surprised we didn't get a Virmire 2.0 in ME3. Did they give the reason as to why it was cut?

yes I was utterly suprised at this as well....especially after talking to javik about hard decisions, plus the advertisments, I just thought virmire 2.0 was inevitable.....but insteqad of goinjg into london with charcaters talking about how there are going to be more casualities constantly, we really saw none of this. we never see any specific character die, aside from the irrelevant cortez.....another inexplicable waste by bioware in me 3.....

[Laser-Eyes]

 I was surprised entirely by the lack of choices in ME3 and why did they only kill off ME2 teammates? WHY?! WHYYYYYY?! 

[Landon7001]

@laser-eyes cant believe u dont know this but tali,wrex and vs can all die in me 3

[Sundance31us]

The leaked script I read was the one with possible dialogue options and there wasn't a VS vs. Liara choice (that I recall). The written dialogue was present for Liara to die it was related to what happens on Thessia and there are...remnants in the game, but it didn't have anything to do with the VS.

At least I don't think it's in the game and I have tried to follow the choices/failures that lead to it.

[shepskisaac]

KingWrex wrote...

Well those two are fan favorites, I know for a fact Garrus was always meant to be on the squad, but I remember reading somewhere Tali wasn't supposed to be. Not sure if that was speculation though. Ultimately they still could of set up situation where characters that didn't play a big role in the story (Grunt, Samara, Zaeed, Jacob, Kasumi, Jack) could have been optional squadmates. For example swap out Vega for Grunt or Tali for Jack; with the other two becoming war assets or something.

How about swap Garrus for Grunt? Just because some character's popular doesn't mean he should take piority all the freaking time. Garrus already had tons of content in previous 2 games. Why pick him again when Miranda/Grunt could take that place and have more time shine?

[Tom Lehrer]

Karrie788 wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

She was supposed to. It was cut from the game. Check out the leaked script you has choose between her and VS.

I was surprised we didn't get a Virmire 2.0 in ME3. Did they give the reason as to why it was cut?

Mac Walters was worried people might actualy pick the VS over Liara so he cut, burned, and dumped that part of the script in the ocean.

[Barquiel]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

She was supposed to. It was cut from the game. Check out the leaked script you has choose between her and VS.

I was surprised we didn't get a Virmire 2.0 in ME3. Did they give the reason as to why it was cut?

Mac Walters was worried people might actualy pick the VS over Liara so he cut, burned, and dumped that part of the script in the ocean.

You know, repeating this nonsense over and over doesn't make it true. Liara is neither Mac Walters favorite character nor did he write her in the games.

[KingWrex]

IsaacShep wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Well those two are fan favorites, I know for a fact Garrus was always meant to be on the squad, but I remember reading somewhere Tali wasn't supposed to be. Not sure if that was speculation though. Ultimately they still could of set up situation where characters that didn't play a big role in the story (Grunt, Samara, Zaeed, Jacob, Kasumi, Jack) could have been optional squadmates. For example swap out Vega for Grunt or Tali for Jack; with the other two becoming war assets or something.

How about swap Garrus for Grunt? Just because some character's popular doesn't mean he should take piority all the freaking time. Garrus already had tons of content in previous 2 games. Why pick him again when Miranda/Grunt could take that place and have more time shine?

Well thats what  I meant I only used those examples because those would be the Squaddies I would swap, but yeah I get your point Everyone should have been interchangeble. Thats probably tough from a development standpoint but they definately could have pulled it off.

[Tom Lehrer]

Barquiel wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

She was supposed to. It was cut from the game. Check out the leaked script you has choose between her and VS.

I was surprised we didn't get a Virmire 2.0 in ME3. Did they give the reason as to why it was cut?

Mac Walters was worried people might actualy pick the VS over Liara so he cut, burned, and dumped that part of the script in the ocean.

You know, repeating this nonsense over and over doesn't make it true. Liara is neither Mac Walters favorite character nor did he write her in the games.

Mac wrote a four part comic centered around Liara that only served to shoehorn her back into the plot AND set up her very own DLC. He is also the lead writer meaning any cuts or changes in the script have to approved by him.

Does this mean he has a unhealthy obsesion with this made up person? No thats just joking on my part, but it does mean he has activly pushed her role in the game.

[Laser-Eyes]

Landon7001 wrote...

@laser-eyes cant believe u dont know this but tali,wrex and vs can all die in me 3

I knew that, but if you try to play through the games the "best" way possible (everyone survives ME2, cure the genophage, etc), you're still going to lose ME2 characters and don't have to lose those characters from ME1.

[EricHVela]

Someone probably already mentioned:
ME1: Wrex and Virmire Sacrifice were the only ones planned.
ME2: She's not a crew-member.
ME3: She's required for the From Ashes DLC. Since one can play that mission at any point before the "point of no return" (Cronos station), there is no way they can allow her to die before then and the only next opportunity is to take her to the beam with low TMS.

When you see this:



You don't see them alive again. In fact, you don't see Joker alive, either. You see nobody alive. The door just opens ajar on the SR-2 and cue credits instead.

Apparently, the little iPad app that they released a while back contains cut content and shows a scene where Shepard tells the squadmates to get themselves out if there was enough TMS, but that scene supposedly conflicted with Shepard getting up in a state of near-death and was cut, leaving more confusion.

PS: Kaidan was the LI in the scene above. With low enough TMS, you can kill any two of your squaddies (and if you interpret not seeing anyone leave the SR-2 crash as death, kill everyone left on the SR-2).

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 31 mai 2012 - 08:11 .

[Tom Lehrer]

ReggarBlane wrote...

ME3: She's required for the From Ashes DLC. Since one can play that mission at any point before the "point of no return" (Cronos station), there is no way they can allow her to die before then and the only next opportunity is to take her to the beam with low TMS.

 

Liara is not needed for that mission at all though. Sheaprd is the one that learns how to open it and from there anyone with an omi-tool can open Javik up. Liara's role in that mission would work exatly the same over the radio or if she was dead mission goes along just fine without her.

ReggarBlane wrote... 
When you see this:

*snip*

You don't see them alive again. In fact, you don't see Joker alive, either. You see nobody alive. The door just opens ajar on the SR-2 and cue credits instead.

In other words in order for Liara to die everyone else in the universe also needs to die. Nice

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 31 mai 2012 - 09:01 .

[Barquiel]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

Mac wrote a four part comic centered around Liara that only served to shoehorn her back into the plot AND set up her very own DLC. He is also the lead writer meaning any cuts or changes in the script have to approved by him.

Does this mean he has a unhealthy obsesion with this made up person? No thats just joking on my part, but it does mean he has activly pushed her role in the game.

Mac Walters wrote all comics.


He had stated in multiple interviews that his favorite characters are Garrus, TIM and Aria.

For example, here...
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

Maybe he played favorites, but it is more likely that he pushed "his character" Garrus in all three games.

[grey_wind]

IsaacShep wrote...

KingWrex wrote...

Well those two are fan favorites, I know for a fact Garrus was always meant to be on the squad, but I remember reading somewhere Tali wasn't supposed to be. Not sure if that was speculation though. Ultimately they still could of set up situation where characters that didn't play a big role in the story (Grunt, Samara, Zaeed, Jacob, Kasumi, Jack) could have been optional squadmates. For example swap out Vega for Grunt or Tali for Jack; with the other two becoming war assets or something.

How about swap Garrus for Grunt? Just because some character's popular doesn't mean he should take piority all the freaking time. Garrus already had tons of content in previous 2 games. Why pick him again when Miranda/Grunt could take that place and have more time shine?

Welcome to BioWare logic. The fanbases for Tali and Garrus far exceed that of other popular characters, so they're the only ones BioWare made sure to include.

[Quething]

[quote]kumquats wrote...

[quote]Quething wrote...

"We need Liara because squad size" is not a valid arguement.[/quote]

It's a design choice that makes sense, you base your argument on something, because you don't like it.
olol[/quote]

No, I  base my argument on facts and logic that you're ignoring for some reason. You base *your* arguement on a falsehood, I explain that it's a falsehood, and you go "lol you want to kill squadmates!" like that was some kind of valid proof that you're not wrong? 

[quote]Quething wrote...
You are guaranteed to have a minimum of four available to you.[/quote]

False. I can even make a screenshot if you want. [/quote]

.... no, you can't. I'll eplain again: killing the Virmire Surivivor is your choice. The game is guaranteed to give you four possible squadmates in ME3. No Shep can fail badly enough in ME1 and ME2, not even no-import fail!Shep, to prevent the game from offering you Ash/Kaidan, EDI, Vega and Liara. It is not possible. You always have the option to have any one of those four. If you're malicious or inept enough that you lose the Virmire Survivor, that's on you. The game gave you the option not to. Likewise, you could easily have the option to lose one more. Or even two more, or three more, or all four if Garrus and Tali and Javik are available in your game, because it would still be playable, because you would still have the minimum of two squadmates.

There is no engine limitation that forces Liara, Vega and EDI to have plot armor. There is no story restriction that means killing one of them breaks everything (which is actually kind of dumb, because Liara could easily have been made story-essential if they'd acutally made any real use of her Shadow Broker position). There is no reason not to make *anyone* killable except that BioWare Said So. Which, fine, it's their game, but don't try to argue they didn't have a choice in the matter.

[quote]grey_wind wrote...

Welcome to BioWare logic. The fanbases for Tali and Garrus far exceed that of other popular characters, so they're the only ones BioWare made sure to include.[/quote]

I don't know if you can really play up Team Dextro as "favorites," plural. Garrus, definitely. Tali, despite her fanbase, only shows up halfway through ME2 and two-thirds of the way through ME3. And then there's the photoshop debacle. She gets more dev love than a lot of the characters, certainly, but she's no Liara.

Modifié par Quething, 31 mai 2012 - 09:24 .

[MegaBadExample]

KingWrex wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

kumquats wrote...

So yeah, I will defend Liara, Vega and EDI. What they did to the ME2 cast was unfair and I don't want anymore Squadis to suffer the same fate.

The biggest problem was that they decided to put Tali & Garrus as perma squadmates AGAIN. Out of 12 SM characters, they picked 2 who already were squadmates twice.

Well those two are fan favorites, I know for a fact Garrus was always meant to be on the squad, but I remember reading somewhere Tali wasn't supposed to be. Not sure if that was speculation though. Ultimately they still could of set up situation where characters that didn't play a big role in the story (Grunt, Samara, Zaeed, Jacob, Kasumi, Jack) could have been optional squadmates. For example swap out Vega for Grunt or Tali for Jack; with the other two becoming war assets or something.

Tali wasn't supposed to be a squadmate... she was supposed to stay and be a god damn Admiral for her people. You know... considering that job simply can't be ditched. 

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 31 mai 2012 - 09:32 .

[EricHVela]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

ME3: She's required for the From Ashes DLC. Since one can play that mission at any point before the "point of no return" (Cronos station), there is no way they can allow her to die before then and the only next opportunity is to take her to the beam with low TMS.

 

Liara is not needed for that mission at all though. Sheaprd is the one that learns how to open it and from there anyone with an omi-tool can open Javik up. Liara's role in that mission would work exatly the same over the radio or if she was dead mission goes along just fine without her.

I didn't say anything to the fact that there could be other possibilities. Because they designed From Ashes to include her specifically on the mission, it means they could not make it possible for her to die anywhere else except after it's too late to do the mission. That's all. Whether or not they intended to give her plot armor doesn't change the fact that the design of the DLC requires it.

Consider how they wanted to include it in the release and ended up with a 0-day DLC. They were already crunched for time. Swapping her role to a vidcom or another character takes more time. One possibility (and totally viable one) is that they were forced to rethink her role when they realized they couldn't get Javik on board except as a optional DLC.

Tom Lehrer wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote... 
When you see this:

*snip*

You don't see them alive again. In fact, you don't see Joker alive, either. You see nobody alive. The door just opens ajar on the SR-2 and cue credits instead.

In other words in order for Liara to die everyone else in the universe also needs to die. Nice

No. It's just speculation that they all died. We simply don't see them. The door does open, but it only opens ajar in that scenario. We simply don't see who's alive (if anyone), but something opened that door.

[Tom Lehrer]

Barquiel wrote...

Mac Walters wrote all comics.

 

How many other squadmates are in multiple comics? How many are in just one? 

Barquiel wrote... 
He had stated in multiple interviews that his favorite characters are Garrus, TIM and Aria.

For example, here...
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/

Maybe he played favorites, but it is more likely that he pushed "his character" Garrus in all three games.

Garrus, TIM, and Aria are also fan favorites so I woul take his statments with a bit of salt.

There are grounds for Garrus being pushed on the player but unlike Liara he can die in ME2 and just ignored in ME3 if alive.

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 31 mai 2012 - 09:31 .

[Tom Lehrer]

ReggarBlane wrote...

I didn't say anything to the fact that there could be other possibilities. Because they designed From Ashes to include her specifically on the mission, it means they could not make it possible for her to die anywhere else except after it's too late to do the mission. That's all. Whether or not they intended to give her plot armor doesn't change the fact that the design of the DLC requires it.

Consider how they wanted to include it in the release and ended up with a 0-day DLC. They were already crunched for time. Swapping her role to a vidcom or another character takes more time. One possibility (and totally viable one) is that they were forced to rethink her role when they realized they couldn't get Javik on board except as a optional DLC.

It would have been very easy to make that mission work without Liara considering she literally does nothing but talk in during it. Shepard is the one that learns how to open Javiks pod, its even stated during the mission only Shepard chould because of the cipher. To make that DLC work without Liara all they would have to do is cut a few lines no need to take time adding anything.

I like Liara, I really do but the fact she gets shoehorned into so much bugs me greatly. It even weakens Liara as a character while to option to have her die at some point would only make her stronger and make players more attached to her. Just look at the popularity of the ME2 squadmates and the loyalty of the VS fans.

[thesalla]

The three characters who cannot die were placed in the game to provide basic squad configurations (tank - Vega, tech - EDI, adept - Liara) even if you screwed up your previous games, you need to have two squadmates, and a soldier shep, Vega and Ash running around wouldn't be effective. I guess if an another biotic was available for everyone we could have had a Virmire-like choice. Too bad Bioware trapped themselves by making every squadmate killable in ME2.

[Quething]

It's not ME1 anymore, though. We don't actually need a biotic and a tech and a soldier. (Not that you did even in ME1, you just needed decryption and engineering, but even that restriction is gone in 2, and any combat differences were removed in 3). There's no real difference whatsoever between biotics, tech and combat skills anymore. Each one has a shield power, each one has direct damage powers vs each defense type, each one has crowd control vs both enemy types. Every single biotic Shep can make her own bluesplosions, and every single tech plus soldier Shep can make his own techsplosions, so you don't even need a full suite of squadmates for *that* like you did in 2. And the game's not designed in a way that actually calls for a "tank" or "crowd control" role to be filled by a specific character.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

WHY DOES LANDON7001 TYPE QUESTIONS IN ALL CAPS????

[TheClonesLegacy]

Oh look A topic I've already covered....
Feels.....odd

Modifié par TheClonesLegacy, 01 juin 2012 - 01:58 .