166 réponses à ce sujet

[Skullheart]

walters waifu...

[rubynorman]

Both sides please stop bashing the characters.

[WhiteKnyght]

BadExamp1e wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

My #1 problem with Liara: She let Kaidan suffer for 2 years.

Don't be silly. That would require making Liara out to be the bad guy and putting her in a negative spotlight for once.

Can't have that can we?

So what? She's supposed to just phone Kaidan/Ashley and say "Hey, I just handed over Shep's corpse to the Human Supremacist group that Alliance types like you hate so they can perform crazy experiements on him that might bring him back from the dead. Something that science has never been able to do before. So yeah, there's a small strand of hope on something that we all believe to be impossible. Never mind the desecration of his/her body and the fact that nobody cares what Shepard's opinion would be."

That's one thing that's funny about Synthesis haters. People bag on it because Shepard is forcing something onto people, yet nobody thinks that he was raised from the dead without his consent for the sole purpose of stopping the Cycle, by any means!

[Mathias]

Because Liara T'Soni is Mac Walters glorious True Canon Blueberry Muffin Waifu Tier.

Modifié par Mdoggy1214, 20 juin 2012 - 06:22 .

[BadExamp1e]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

BadExamp1e wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

My #1 problem with Liara: She let Kaidan suffer for 2 years.

Don't be silly. That would require making Liara out to be the bad guy and putting her in a negative spotlight for once.

Can't have that can we?

So what? She's supposed to just phone Kaidan/Ashley and say "Hey, I just handed over Shep's corpse to the Human Supremacist group that Alliance types like you hate so they can perform crazy experiements on him that might bring him back from the dead. Something that science has never been able to do before. So yeah, there's a small strand of hope on something that we all believe to be impossible. Never mind the desecration of his/her body and the fact that nobody cares what Shepard's opinion would be."

That's one thing that's funny about Synthesis haters. People bag on it because Shepard is forcing something onto people, yet nobody thinks that he was raised from the dead without his consent for the sole purpose of stopping the Cycle, by any means!

And when it all comes down it: “Because I couldn’t let you go”

Utterly selfish. Liara stalks my Shepard's life. Truly sickening. Everyone else I can tell to bugger off, or at least don't have to put up with them, but her. She's forced on us all like a bad rash CONSTANTLY.

[Karrie788]

Demonique wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

All right, calm down, no need to fight over our opinions. Didn't mean to offend.

You have a point about EDI and Vega, I guess people don't mind it as much since they only appear in ME3, you don't have to stick around them as much as Liara, Garrus, Tali or the VS.
 
That being said, I don't see why it's a problem to be able to get rid of squadmates. For people starting with ME3, I don't know if Garrus and Tali are dead in the default scenario, are they?

Tali's alive in the default ME3 because I remember reading the default for her is that she was exiled from the Migrant Fleet.
Garrus is alive
Grunt - never release from tank
Legion - never recruited, I think he was given to Cerberus
Samara wasn't recruited and was killed by Morinth trying to flee Illium
Jack and Thane were killed during the approach to the Collector's base
All the crew apart from Chakwas died on the Collector's Base
No loyalty missions so there was no choice to make about Maelon's data. Data not on hand means that Eve will die curing the genophage (unless she stole the data from Maelon before she escaped with her sisters but it doesn't sound like something BW would write)

... well that would be one ****ty playthrough. I feel sorry for the newcomers.

[rubynorman]

errant-angel:
In regards to the Liara debate...

Has anyone ever just sat down and thought that maybe there is a reason she’s “shoved down your throat?”

Now, hear me out.

Liara is important. Despite what your personal feelings are, whether you like her or not, it’s clear that Shepard is a character of his or her own with certain traits you cannot change. How many people sit around and complain about the fact Shepard is a terrible dancer? In the Mass Effect series, Shepard, whether liking Liara or not, is not dumb enough to disregard her when she is essential to what’s going on. She’s an asset, and a powerful one, at that. There are certain story elements you can’t just toss out the window because you don’t like them, and Liara happens to be one of them.

Without Liara, ME3 wouldn’t have a main objective. In ME3, Liara has been an ally of the Commander’s for years now. Despite what YOU the player feel, it would be bizarre for Shepard to just abandon someone after all that they have gone through. Her presence makes sense.

Now, on the fact you can’t kill her off, think about it. The choice between Ash and Kaidan on Virmire was based off the fact that both of them were trained and volunteered for the job. Would it have been in character for Liara, an archeologist, to volunteer for the job? Not really, no.

In ME2? Liara wasn’t a part of your main crew. No logical opportunity there.

As for ME3? Well, there is the option there, presented in a way that makes sense. Now, if you want to bring up Thane or another character and talk about how pointless his or her death may have been, fine, but don’t go saying Liara should have had an equally pointless death, because that’s really just petty.

Quote for truth

Modifié par rubynorman, 20 juin 2012 - 06:32 .

[Rikketik]

Because the writers knew the bloodthirsty horde on BSN would be looking for a scapegoat to blame everything that was wrong with the game and their favorite characters on. Liara simply pulled the shortest straw.

Poor Liara.

[lillitheris]

“My LI didn’t get the screen time they deserved AND THEREFORE NEITHER SHOULD YOURS.”

Jumping jesus in a crab barrel.

[Seifer006]

I mention this in my review

[Seifer006]

it's probably cause it's much easier to have one character focus when EA is demanding the game to get out in 2yrs...........instead having more Developing Team that would bring lasting quality

[Rikketik]

Seifer006 wrote...

it's probably cause it's much easier to have one character focus when EA is demanding the game to get out in 2yrs...........instead having more Developing Team that would bring lasting quality

Ah, yes. The two rules of complaining about Mass Effect 3:

1. If there's anything wrong with the game, just blame it on Liara.
2. If it can't be blamed on Liara, blame it on EA instead.

[Seifer006]

Rikketik wrote...

Seifer006 wrote...

it's probably cause it's much easier to have one character focus when EA is demanding the game to get out in 2yrs...........instead having more Developing Team that would bring lasting quality

Ah, yes. The two rules of complaining about Mass Effect 3:

1. If there's anything wrong with the game, just blame it on Liara.
2. If it can't be blamed on Liara, blame it on EA instead.

could be true?

[wright1978]

My issue isn't that Liara can't die as the same issue applies to all squaddies in ME3. My issue is that ME3 for some bizarre reason decided not to have any sort of variation on a theme of the highly acclaimed suicide mission. ME3 squad should have been fair game if you made bad choices or had low EMS in the London arc. Instead they get a magic transport beam to the Normandy on gilligan's island.

[BadExamp1e]

rubynorman wrote...

errant-angel:
In regards to the Liara debate...

Has anyone ever just sat down and thought that maybe there is a reason she’s “shoved down your throat?”

Now, hear me out.

Liara is important. Despite what your personal feelings are, whether you like her or not, it’s clear that Shepard is a character of his or her own with certain traits you cannot change. How many people sit around and complain about the fact Shepard is a terrible dancer? In the Mass Effect series, Shepard, whether liking Liara or not, is not dumb enough to disregard her when she is essential to what’s going on. She’s an asset, and a powerful one, at that. There are certain story elements you can’t just toss out the window because you don’t like them, and Liara happens to be one of them.

Without Liara, ME3 wouldn’t have a main objective. In ME3, Liara has been an ally of the Commander’s for years now. Despite what YOU the player feel, it would be bizarre for Shepard to just abandon someone after all that they have gone through. Her presence makes sense.

Now, on the fact you can’t kill her off, think about it. The choice between Ash and Kaidan on Virmire was based off the fact that both of them were trained and volunteered for the job. Would it have been in character for Liara, an archeologist, to volunteer for the job? Not really, no.

In ME2? Liara wasn’t a part of your main crew. No logical opportunity there.

As for ME3? Well, there is the option there, presented in a way that makes sense. Now, if you want to bring up Thane or another character and talk about how pointless his or her death may have been, fine, but don’t go saying Liara should have had an equally pointless death, because that’s really just petty.

Quote for truth

“it’s clear that Shepard is a character of his or her own with certain traits you cannot change. How many people sit around and complain about the fact Shepard is a terrible dancer?”

At least you have the option to NOT dance. At least there is a choice there to avoid it. Dancing is not required. Can't honestly say the same about Liara.

Liara doesn't have to be important. She is MADE important. In case, you haven't noticed, but her character has went through a string of changes so that she fits in with the plot. From back-story, to DLC, to comics.

Why do I need her on the ship? Isn't she the 'master prothean expert' on the cruible she supposedly dug up?Shouldn't she be there?

Or if  not there, how about: “Hey, new SB why don't you pack up and go find another base to chill in. I can't risk you getting injured or killed in a fight, you're such an important asset. If you find anything interesting you can send me information via e-mail like everyone else. And I'm sure if I find any protheans along the way I'll txt you for advice. K, bye.”

That doesn't mean take Liara out of the game for those who want her, but it should have been an option since she can't die a ‘pointless’ death like all the other past characters. The option to get rid of her would have been nice.

Modifié par BadExamp1e, 20 juin 2012 - 07:14 .

[EricHVela]

Vega and Anderson are alive all through ME1-ME3, too. They are also squadmates in ME3.

WHY CAN'T THEY DIE?! (until the end)

There's no opportunity to have her killed. Of the ME1 squadmates, only the Virmire Sacrifice and Wrex can die in ME1.

In ME2, only squadmates at the suicide mission can die.

Of the ME3 squadmates, only Virmire Survivor can die in ME3 before the Harby beam.

It's just an unlucky lack of opportunity. The deal is closed when Prothy's DLC requires her alive for the mission which can take place any time between the first Citadel visit and the Cronos Station mission.

[rubynorman]

BadExamp1e wrote...

rubynorman wrote...

errant-angel:
In regards to the Liara debate...

Has anyone ever just sat down and thought that maybe there is a reason she’s “shoved down your throat?”

Now, hear me out.

Liara is important. Despite what your personal feelings are, whether you like her or not, it’s clear that Shepard is a character of his or her own with certain traits you cannot change. How many people sit around and complain about the fact Shepard is a terrible dancer? In the Mass Effect series, Shepard, whether liking Liara or not, is not dumb enough to disregard her when she is essential to what’s going on. She’s an asset, and a powerful one, at that. There are certain story elements you can’t just toss out the window because you don’t like them, and Liara happens to be one of them.

Without Liara, ME3 wouldn’t have a main objective. In ME3, Liara has been an ally of the Commander’s for years now. Despite what YOU the player feel, it would be bizarre for Shepard to just abandon someone after all that they have gone through. Her presence makes sense.

Now, on the fact you can’t kill her off, think about it. The choice between Ash and Kaidan on Virmire was based off the fact that both of them were trained and volunteered for the job. Would it have been in character for Liara, an archeologist, to volunteer for the job? Not really, no.

In ME2? Liara wasn’t a part of your main crew. No logical opportunity there.

As for ME3? Well, there is the option there, presented in a way that makes sense. Now, if you want to bring up Thane or another character and talk about how pointless his or her death may have been, fine, but don’t go saying Liara should have had an equally pointless death, because that’s really just petty.

Quote for truth

“it’s clear that Shepard is a character of his or her own with certain traits you cannot change. How many people sit around and complain about the fact Shepard is a terrible dancer?”

At least you have the option to NOT dance. At least there is a choice there to avoid it. Dancing is not required. Can't honestly say the same about Liara.

Liara doesn't have to be important. She is MADE important. In case, you haven't noticed, but her character has went through a string of changes so that she fits in with the plot. From back-story, to DLC, to comics.

Why do I need her on the ship? Isn't she the 'master prothean expert' on the cruible she supposedly dug up?Shouldn't she be there?

Or if  not there, how about: “Hey, new SB why don't you pack up and go find another base to chill in. I can't risk you getting injured or killed in a fight, you're such an important asset. If you find anything interesting you can send me information via e-mail like everyone else. And I'm sure if I find any protheans along the way I'll txt you for advice. K, bye.”

That doesn't mean take Liara out of the game for those who want her, but it should have been an option since she can't die a ‘pointless’ death like all the other past characters. The option to get rid of her would have been nice.

Dancing is not required but Shepard is still a terrible dancer according to many characters in the game.

The cruible is made by a lot of species and it's really easy to understand the blueprint. Building the cruible is not a job for an archeologist.

The Normandy is one of the most safe place in the galaxy because of its advanced stealth system, its oversized Tantalus drive core, its superior sublight acceleration and maneuverability.

Do you think you were forced to work with Ceberus in ME2 ?

But this thread is about killing an ally, it's pointless IMO.

Modifié par rubynorman, 20 juin 2012 - 07:43 .

[BadExamp1e]

Vega isn't even in the past two games, and last I checked he didn't have a mad crush on Shepard that forced him to find his body, give it to an known untrustworthy source in an attempt to resurrect him. Spells desperation to me. I wish Liara would stop trying.

Anderson is required for the start of Earth, which I don't consider a mission. I'm fine with squadmates getting their own mission. Unable to get rid of them for a whole series is another. It's not about dying, or killing of a character. It's about Liara being required through the whole game, and constantly showing up more than any other, with no option to tell her to leave you alone. Thessia, SB DLC, Eden Prime, shows up in most cutscenes, even when you're talking to the council ect. It just makes it worse because everybody knows Liara is madly in love with Shepard no matter what you do.

EDIT: As for the Normandy being the safest? Didn't seem that way when the collectors boarded, and took the whole crew.

Modifié par BadExamp1e, 20 juin 2012 - 07:45 .

[rubynorman]

BadExamp1e wrote...

Vega isn't even in the past two games, and last I checked he didn't have a mad crush on Shepard that forced him to find his body, give it to an known untrustworthy source in an attempt to resurrect him. Spells desperation to me. I wish Liara would stop trying.

Anderson is required for the start of Earth, which I don't consider a mission. I'm fine with squadmates getting their own mission. Unable to get rid of them for a whole series is another. It's not about dying, or killing of a character. It's about Liara being required through the whole game, and constantly showing up more than any other, with no option to tell her to leave you alone. Thessia, SB DLC, Eden Prime, shows up in most cutscenes, even when you're talking to the council ect. It just makes it worse because everybody knows Liara is madly in love with Shepard no matter what you do.

EDIT: As for the Normandy being the safest? Didn't seem that way when the collectors boarded.

Just because of  the collector's trap program
Liara has a crush on Shepard so what? Just romance the one you like and ignore her. If you don't talk to her she won't even offer the gift in the goodbye scene. James is an ordinary soldier. Don't you think it would be better if we got an N7 operative or something ?

[BadExamp1e]

rubynorman wrote...

BadExamp1e wrote...

Vega isn't even in the past two games, and last I checked he didn't have a mad crush on Shepard that forced him to find his body, give it to an known untrustworthy source in an attempt to resurrect him. Spells desperation to me. I wish Liara would stop trying.

Anderson is required for the start of Earth, which I don't consider a mission. I'm fine with squadmates getting their own mission. Unable to get rid of them for a whole series is another. It's not about dying, or killing of a character. It's about Liara being required through the whole game, and constantly showing up more than any other, with no option to tell her to leave you alone. Thessia, SB DLC, Eden Prime, shows up in most cutscenes, even when you're talking to the council ect. It just makes it worse because everybody knows Liara is madly in love with Shepard no matter what you do.

EDIT: As for the Normandy being the safest? Didn't seem that way when the collectors boarded.

Just because of  the collector's trap program
Liara has a crush on Shepard so what? Just romance the one you like and ignore her. If you don't talk to her she won't even offer the gift in the goodbye scene. James is an ordinary soldier. Don't you think it would be better if we got an N7 operative or something ?

On the bolded - I can't.

Doesn't matter if it was the collectors or not, it proves the Normandy isn't safe. Especially when there's are war going on and the Normandy is flying straight into fire-fights often. Not too mention the reapers lurking in systems now.

Modifié par BadExamp1e, 20 juin 2012 - 07:59 .

[Sundance31us]

I seem to recall Anderson knowing something about the efforts to bring Shepard back...yet he doesn’t tell the VS either.

On the other hand I'm a little surprised that none of the squad mates bothered to stay touch after Shepard dies. No birthday cards? No Facebook pokes? No chain emails? No ColonyVille requests?

[rubynorman]

BadExamp1e wrote...

rubynorman wrote...

BadExamp1e wrote...

Vega isn't even in the past two games, and last I checked he didn't have a mad crush on Shepard that forced him to find his body, give it to an known untrustworthy source in an attempt to resurrect him. Spells desperation to me. I wish Liara would stop trying.

Anderson is required for the start of Earth, which I don't consider a mission. I'm fine with squadmates getting their own mission. Unable to get rid of them for a whole series is another. It's not about dying, or killing of a character. It's about Liara being required through the whole game, and constantly showing up more than any other, with no option to tell her to leave you alone. Thessia, SB DLC, Eden Prime, shows up in most cutscenes, even when you're talking to the council ect. It just makes it worse because everybody knows Liara is madly in love with Shepard no matter what you do.

EDIT: As for the Normandy being the safest? Didn't seem that way when the collectors boarded.

Just because of  the collector's trap program
Liara has a crush on Shepard so what? Just romance the one you like and ignore her. If you don't talk to her she won't even offer the gift in the goodbye scene. James is an ordinary soldier. Don't you think it would be better if we got an N7 operative or something ?

On the bolded - I can't.

Doesn't matter if it was the collectors or not, it proves the Normandy isn't safe. Especially when there's are war going on and the Normandy is flying straight into fire-fights often. Not too mention the reapers lurking in systems now.

There isn't anywhere safe at all. At least the Normandy has the best communication system which the SB can use.
Technical reason: she is the only one who live through ME2 and the devs had limited time and resources.

[BadExamp1e]

rubynorman wrote...

BadExamp1e wrote...

rubynorman wrote...

BadExamp1e wrote...

Vega isn't even in the past two games, and last I checked he didn't have a mad crush on Shepard that forced him to find his body, give it to an known untrustworthy source in an attempt to resurrect him. Spells desperation to me. I wish Liara would stop trying.

Anderson is required for the start of Earth, which I don't consider a mission. I'm fine with squadmates getting their own mission. Unable to get rid of them for a whole series is another. It's not about dying, or killing of a character. It's about Liara being required through the whole game, and constantly showing up more than any other, with no option to tell her to leave you alone. Thessia, SB DLC, Eden Prime, shows up in most cutscenes, even when you're talking to the council ect. It just makes it worse because everybody knows Liara is madly in love with Shepard no matter what you do.

EDIT: As for the Normandy being the safest? Didn't seem that way when the collectors boarded.

Just because of  the collector's trap program
Liara has a crush on Shepard so what? Just romance the one you like and ignore her. If you don't talk to her she won't even offer the gift in the goodbye scene. James is an ordinary soldier. Don't you think it would be better if we got an N7 operative or something ?

On the bolded - I can't.

Doesn't matter if it was the collectors or not, it proves the Normandy isn't safe. Especially when there's are war going on and the Normandy is flying straight into fire-fights often. Not too mention the reapers lurking in systems now.

There isn't anywhere safe at all. At least the Normandy has the best communication system which the SB can use.
Technical reason: she is the only one who live through ME2 and the devs had limited time and resources.

Please, there are safe-zones. The Normandy is not a safe-zone.

How about a bunker like the one on Ilos? Where the protheans retreated to? Or something like it? Anywhere that isn't currently being attacked by the reapers would be safer than the Normandy. It's flying in to war zones daily for Christ sake. Yet Liara is too important to lose? BS. If she was too important to lose she wouldn't be on the Normandy. It's exactly what happened in ME2.

Her and her damn plot armor, and for what? Point still stands, Liara doesn't HAVE to be on the ship, but she is. There are ways around such things. Instead, she's forced onto the ship and she's forced into our faces most of the game. BW activated her damn plot armor again so nobody can do anything about it.

I'd like to clarify it’s not about killing her off, but I would like the option to get rid of her, or at least not have her forced on me constantly.

Modifié par BadExamp1e, 20 juin 2012 - 08:23 .

[rubynorman]

Yeah in the middle of nowhere without an advanced communication system.

[BadExamp1e]

rubynorman wrote...

Yeah in the middle of nowhere without an advanced communication system.

Considering that the SB's ship was in the middle of nowhere…. You know what? You must think the galaxy is a plain and boring place now that you've seen it all, huh?

…Besides, with the amount of information and resources they have at their disposal it's not impossible to find Liara somewhere else to work, or supply her with the right equipment. Unfortunately, it just wasn’t an option, when it should have been since she's 'such an important assest' and should have been working somewhere safer, instead of running around a BF.

But nope. BW just activate the plot armor. Now, the rest of us have to constantly put up with Liara's screen-hogging and her doting fashion with no way around it.

Modifié par BadExamp1e, 20 juin 2012 - 08:54 .