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[Tuix]

 

Hanko21 wrote...

I understand OP's point of view but doing headshot and shooting weakspots on bosses doesnt take skills or careful aiming because they move so slow its easy to shoot where you want and its not like you can kill it with just 1 or 2 shots on the head or weakspot.

The only boss that would take some careful aiming to do headshot is banshee but they never had a weakspot this whole time since game released anyway.

If you want some challenge by dealing headshots with skilled careful aiming then you can play against cerberus. doing headshot on phantom feels more satisfying and rewarding than any other enemies, at least for me though.

 

yes, phantoms are great but I had SO much sattisfaction when I headshotted brute in charge with kisho or banshee right after her jump ;/.

Modifié par Tuix, 01 juin 2012 - 06:54 .

[ka243]

Agreed with op. The game is a lot less fun without the ability to headshot primes and atlases

[Schneidend]

I just remembered something. They've said several times that the Prime and Atlas were never meant to have headshot bonuses to begin with. Hell, the Atlas wasn't even a headshot bonus, it was armor-piercing weapons going through its window and hitting it a second time.

[Xaijin]

Preeety much.

[Vercuric]

You know, speaking as an Infiltrator who relies on headshots, I agree with removing the critical hit damage bonus from Geth Primes. Aiming for the Geth Prime's head wasn't very risky. The "head" itself is large and curves towards its own body, making the shot less of a risk since its more likely to hit there if it misses the head. They also move slowly, don't move their heads around much, and the Geth faction lacks any other challenging boss-type characters. Removing the damage bonus entirely still seems a little extreme to me, though.

Same goes for the Atlas's, for the most part.

What I don't agree with is the lack of headshots on Banshees. Besides having a very obvious "head" to shoot at, it's also much more difficult to hit than the head of the Geth Primes. Excluding the frequent teleports, she bobs up and down with every step and her posture makes it difficult to score a hit on the body if a headshot misses. Not rewarding the player for scoring that difficult of a shot seems unbalanced to me.

[MajesticKill]

bosses are more fun when we can kill them easily? Wah? Isn't it more fun to have an actual challenge? Being about to 3-4 shot an atlas does not make for a compelling game...

[january42]

Schneidend wrote...

I just remembered something. They've said several times that the Prime and Atlas were never meant to have headshot bonuses to begin with. Hell, the Atlas wasn't even a headshot bonus, it was armor-piercing weapons going through its window and hitting it a second time.

Atlas one wasn't even a bug actuallly.

I don't see the point of changing this. Now, only certian classes can deal with bosses.   This basicly just makes soldiers even more useless.

Basicly, having more options beyond just relying on infiltrators and combo classes was nice.

[friedricethem0n]

Now, instead we rely on Biotic Explosions and really big guns (ie. Black Widow) to take them down. So, Bioware pretty much invalidates all classes except for the Infiltrator and Adepts.

Won't be suprise the next time I get into any random lobby and find

Salarian Infiltrator Level 20 (Widow X)

Asari Adept Level 20 (Carnifex X)

Geth Infiltrator Level 20 (Geth Pulse Shotgun X)

Me - Turian Soldier Level 20 (Talon IV) {X] {X] {X]

And then.

You were kicked. Press (A) to continue.

[Schneidend]

january42 wrote...


Atlas one wasn't even a bug actuallly.

I don't see the point of changing this. Now, only certian classes can deal with bosses.   This basicly just makes soldiers even more useless.

Basicly, having more options beyond just relying on infiltrators and combo classes was nice.

Turian and Human Soldier can still unleash an ungodly torrent of sustained DPS into an Atlas, Batarian Soldier can apply a million DoT stacks and liberally utilize Falcon Punch technology, a careful Krogan soldier can melee it to death with some heavy weapons fire and Inferno 'nades peppered in, and the Vorcha can either tank it or sneak up and burn it.

[Catastrophy]

Yea, they should consider introducing weak spots. Hit them there and they go insane and run amok. They take high amount of damage in short time? Time for desperate action: "If I die, I take you with me" -> initiate instakill attempt.

[Meeeps]

Geth were always the hardest foe, now with reason :-)

[southboom]

Personally, I wish there were more tactics in taking down the heavies, instead of just the camp n spank approach.

I remember playing the demo and wishing you could cripple the Atlas. Like "killing" off limbs and breaking it down part by part, and eventually giving it the coup de grace animation.
Firing at the legs, cripples it. Moving slower.
Firing at the arms/weapons would debuff him, leaving him with worse weaponry.
Things like that.. Having the head there as a sort of aiming mechanic, so if you cripple that, his aim gets lowered.

Same things could incorperated into Banshee's and Primes as well.

It's too bad they didn't do things like that, since imo the most fun enemy within the whole game is the brute.. I smile everytime I dodge a brutes lunge attack.. I wish more of the heavies would do similar things.

[HyruneX]

+1 to the OP

Incentive to aim bosses is good.
With the patch "fix", there is no more fun shouting at the big targets as you can aim what ever you want this will change nothing...

Welcome back in Doom II

Modifié par HyruneX, 01 juin 2012 - 09:06 .

[Fox-snipe]

Drawrof wrote...


The point of the prime and atlases is to move you out of position. When you can unload 5 paladin bullet into a primes head with no problems whatsoever,  what is the skill in that. Yes it takes skill to headshot a hunter, phantom or nemesis therefore the hs bonus should apply. But for those that think it takes skill to headshot a prime or atlas should give there head a shake. 

I disagree.  An Atlas and Prime were supposed to make you bunker down and get the hell into cover.  Phantoms and Hunters are the ones that flank and force you out of cover/watch your back.

A player who decides to put himself into the optimum position when attacking an Atlas or Prime and holds his ground should be rewarded with the chance to take those bosses down faster.  It's a risk/reward scenario.  Position yourself in front of a Prime to take headshots, but you better have damn good aim to take those shots quickly and not miss.  Wait too long and those plasma shots will down you.  Keep missing and the Prime will be right on top of you.

Instead, we're told to run away like a small child crying and just shoot at the thing for 4 minutes anywhere since that's all that matters.  That's not tactical or smart play in the least.  That's the kind of thing that should be penalized by a flanking peon.

Plus, if you're the last one standing now, you pretty much HAVE to attack all the little fish first so they don't flank you, and then just shoot at the boss endlessly.  That's not fun, that's boring.  You should be able to try and take out the heavy hitter first and then clean up the junk after.

Modifié par Fox-snipe, 01 juin 2012 - 11:13 .

[Farmtech-Ru]

+1 for headshots and +1 for variable hit zones - random pieces on each single boss mob having distinctive vulnerability that can be shot for bonus damage. Some gadget on a geth or atlas and some different color tissue spot on reapers.

[ibor4you]

Fox-snipe wrote...

Phantoms have NOT had their ability to be headshot removed.  I just played a match where I killed no less than five of them with a headshot, a couple which were caught in Stasis.
Atlas having their cockpit fixed isn't a huge deal as they still have the weakpoints in the joints, so that's manageable.  They're also huge honking targets so it's easy to hit them with a Prox mine and get the damage boost for 8 seconds.

Primes on the other hand, are just too damn tough and dangerous now.  When I first started playing I believed the difficulty in enemy races went Cerberus -> Geth -> Reaper.  Lately though, and especially now, I feel it's more like Cerberus -> Reaper -> X -> Geth.  Why?  (Prepare for a TL;DR post...)

Because the Geth easily put out more damage in the same amount of time compared to Cerberus and Reapers.  Cerberus' bosses are easy to deal with and don't really do much damage at distance.  Reaper bosses (Banshees & Brutes) do NO damage at distance (the Banshee's traveling attack seems to require a certain minimum distance before she'll fire it; it's also slow moving, so duck into cover).

Meanwhile, the Geth have larger numbers of enemies and those enemies are also more dangerous.  I'm of course speaking of the hidden Hunters, those damn Rocket Troopers that have made mini aircraft that can pull 45 degree turns and track you anywhere, Pyros with obscene reach, and the Prime units that are hugely dangerous.  Primes also really do not announce themselves like the other bosses (Brutes and Atlas are easy to hear and create a rumble sensation, Bashees will make you deaf).  Aside from the very muted grumbling that ALL Geth make, Primes are largely unknown until you get hit by that damn plasma shot (which is a whole 0.5 seconds after you hear it fire).  Oh, and that plasma shot also tracks you like those damn rockets.

Every other boss is adaptable even if they are now a sponge, just retreat/maintain distance and take potshots at them.  Primes?  Oh hell no.  You stick you head out for even a second and you are hit with plasma, on fire, flanked by a Hunter, or have a Turret right next to you.  Primes are the true walking tanks with their armament, and it's BS that they now take over twice as long to destroy with a well-leveled weapon and smart aiming.  Keep in mind that all Geth don't really have an appendage that acts as a head; it's more like a forward pointing column, which means headshotting them from the side or rear is more difficult (Pyros being the exception with their fuel tank).

It doesn't help that Geth attack in far greater numbers (Primes included; you could easily have four of them converge on you) and a Prime can easily occupy multiple members of the team thanks to their Turret.  The only real way an Infiltrator (disclaimer: my favorite class) can boost damage to a Prime now is with a prox mine fired at it, but Primes are only easier to hit with a Prox than Banshees.  Most Infiltrators don't even level the Prox.  Most other classes are going to have a problem as well dealing with a Prime that is attacking them; an Infiltrator at least has Cloak to try and escape (though I swear the Cloak is damn near useless after the patch).


If you ask me the headshot bonus should be added back to the Atlas and Primes.  I don't really understand the total removal on the Atlas.  I know the game was incorrectly applying a double bonus due to the size of the Atlas but I never recall any mention that it wasn't supposed to have at least some headshot bonus.  It flies in the face of the single-player which hs BS when the game tips don't adapt themselves to what mode you are playing.  But as I said, you can adapt to fighting an Atlas, and they aren't really that difficult.  Primes on the other hand ABSOLUTELY need their headshot bonus put back.  They were always (one of) the more dangerous enemies on the field in my opinion, and now it's just 5x worse without a way to quickly, individually take them down.  Hell, the Prime shouldn't even be treated as a boss character considering how many of them there are, so stop treating them as such.  The Geth simply put out too much damage compared to the other races.

(I apologize if I ran-on a bit, it's late and I'm grumpy.)

Good point mate, totally agree

[Poison_Berrie]

The purpose behind most boss enemies is that they force you to shift positions and focus your fire on them, allowing others to close in.

[Neegs]

THE NOOBIE NOOB WHO TYPES IN CAPS wrote...

Other than Infiltrator, no-one really "suffers" from not being able to headshot bosses.
Besides they wouldn't be bosses if they had weakpoints...

what i headshot bosses all the time with my Adepts. In fact i am to headshot no matter what class I am using.

Im not sure how i feel about it really. IMO everything in games should have a weaker spot. but should not be glowing like some games fall into. Headshots have been a standard shooting game mechanic for years. It also makes sense if you get shot in the face it makes a difference.

I think tactical scan should highltight a random weekspot on all bosses. If players can hit this spot they do extra damage. this would make the tactical sacn much more effective

Bosses having no weakness means a complete change in tactic. i no longer care where i hit them. In fact i now get into a possitions where i can hit their toe and i would get no extra for hitting there head

[Klokos]

friedricethem0n wrote...

Now, instead we rely on Biotic Explosions and really big guns (ie. Black Widow) to take them down. So, Bioware pretty much invalidates all classes except for the Infiltrator and Adepts.

Won't be suprise the next time I get into any random lobby and find

Salarian Infiltrator Level 20 (Widow X)

Asari Adept Level 20 (Carnifex X)

Geth Infiltrator Level 20 (Geth Pulse Shotgun X)

Me - Turian Soldier Level 20 (Talon IV) {X] {X] {X]

And then.

You were kicked. Press (A) to continue.

 I have a hard time finding gold lobbies that aren't only salarian/geth infiltrator with sometime maybe one engineer.

[AwesomeBabyLion]

I don't mind that they removed the headshot part, makes me word harder from my credits.

[Shakespeare212]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

The purpose behind most boss enemies is that they force you to shift positions and focus your fire on them, allowing others to close in.

I don't think that's really the purpose of boss enemies, but even if it was, it wouldn't change the fact that the top tiers of the infiltrator power trees are somewhat useless now, since headshots are unnecessary to bring down low level enemies with a single sniper shot.  The primary infiltrator attack form is now blocked.  Removing complexity of design to reduce a boss basically to a dumb damage sponge does not make for an enjoyable boss battle.

[Bleachrude]

I don't mind weakness on bosses, but I have to agree that the windshield on an atlas is WAY too big to be a weakness IMO.

Frankly, the canopy is bigger in area than a guardian WITH shield....

It didn't take skill to hit that....certainly nothing like the mail slot on the aforementioned guardian...

[LeandroBraz]

Fox-snipe wrote...

Drawrof wrote...


The point of the prime and atlases is to move you out of position. When you can unload 5 paladin bullet into a primes head with no problems whatsoever,  what is the skill in that. Yes it takes skill to headshot a hunter, phantom or nemesis therefore the hs bonus should apply. But for those that think it takes skill to headshot a prime or atlas should give there head a shake. 

I disagree.  An Atlas and Prime were supposed to make you bunker down and get the hell into cover.  Phantoms and Hunters are the ones that flank and force you out of cover/watch your back.

A player who decides to put himself into the optimum position when attacking an Atlas or Prime and holds his ground should be rewarded with the chance to take those bosses down faster.  It's a risk/reward scenario.  Position yourself in front of a Prime to take headshots, but you better have damn good aim to take those shots quickly and not miss.  Wait too long and those plasma shots will down you.  Keep missing and the Prime will be right on top of you.

Instead, we're told to run away like a small child crying and just shoot at the thing for 4 minutes anywhere since that's all that matters.  That's not tactical or smart play in the least.  That's the kind of thing that should be penalized by a flanking peon.

Plus, if you're the last one standing now, you pretty much HAVE to attack all the little fish first so they don't flank you, and then just shoot at the boss endlessly.  That's not fun, that's boring.  You should be able to try and take out the heavy hitter first and then clean up the junk after.

You just forgot one thing: It's a coop. It will take 4 minutes if you try to take it down alone. You gonna be rewarded if you know how to play as a team, focus on the most dangerous enemy, trying to maximize the team damage so it go down fast. A good team can eat a Prime in seconds.

[TrveOmegaSlayer]

Never been a pro sniper, but yesterday was silly.
I spec'd a level 12 Geth Infiltrator for sniping with a Widow VII, barrel and scope, having 0 at fitness, a glass geth and...headshots with Cerberus Gold only meant removing shields (except against the Engineer, left with 3 health bars).
Worse than that, the hand of a Phantom or the head receive the same damage.
Not a full time sniper, but I was disappointed and not felt rewarded.