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[FirroSeranel]

In the wonderfully helpful stickied post about the math formulas used to calculate power bonuses, we learned how recharge times are calculated.  These seem totally consistent with the results in the game.

For example, Warp, with Shepard running with both cooldown bonuses, with a full 200% weight bonus is:

8 * (1 / (1.0 + 0.25 + 0.35 + 2.0)) = 2.22 seconds.  Makes perfect sense.

Add a Barrier 60% cooldown penalty, and you get:

8 / (1 / (1.0 + 0.25 + 0.35 + 2.0 - 0.6)) = 2.67 seconds.  0.4 seconds isn't a very big penalty, so that's clearly worth it.

But the formula breaks for large penalties, specifically from weight.

For example, Warp with Shepard loaded up like a walking tank, you get:

8 * (1 / (1.0 + 0.25 + 0.35 - 2.0)) = 8 * (1 / (-0.4)) = -20 seconds.  Obviously that can't be, but maybe it's the absolute value, or 20 seconds.  That seems about right with the game mechanic.

But then if we add in Barrier's cooldown penalty (which -should- make it even slower...)

8 * (1 / (1.0 + 0.25 + 0.35 - 2.0 - 0.6)) = 8 * (1 / -1) = -8 seconds.  Again, impossible, but again with the absolute value, it would be 8 seconds.

But that's impossible!  If we add another cooldown penalty to an already penalized power, it should get slower, not more than twice as fast.  In the game, it -does- get slower, so I presume there is a separate formula for dealing with penalized recharge times?  Or do you put the penalties in the numerator?

I'm guessing it's more like:

New Time = Base Time * ((1 + Sum of Penalties)/(1 + Sum of Bonuses))?

So for the two penalized warps:

8 * ((1.0 + 2.0) / (1.0 + .25 + .35)) = 15 seconds without Barrier

8 * ((1.0 + 2.0 + 0.6) / (1.0 + .25 + .35)) = 18 seconds with Barrier (or Fortification, etc)

In that case, with the 200% weight bonus, again with no armor power, we get a recharge of 2.22 seconds.

With, we get:

8 * ((1.0 + 0.6) / (1.0 + .25 + .35 + 2.0) = 3.56 seconds.

Adding 1.3 seconds is a lot more penalty than adding .4 seconds.  It actually -is- a 60% penalty instead of the mere 20% penalty with the incomplete formula given in the stickied post.

You see why I want to know for sure?

Anyone else have any input into this?  I'm essentially trying to decide on a bonus power for my Adept for Insanity, and the damage reduction and power damage boost from Barrier look yummy, but that recharge penalty is actually pretty big when you consider that the bigger recharge may mean some enemies can dodge indefinitely for my Warp, instead of being hit by the second one.

[Pressedcat]

The basic formula when you have a positive cooldown is as supplied:

New Value = Base Value at Rank 1 * (1.0 / (1.0 + Sum of all rank bonuses + Dynamic Bonuses))

If your overall cooldown bonus (ie Sum of all rank bonuses + Dynamic Bonuses) is negative, instead of dividing the bas cooldown, you multiply it:

New Value = Base Value at Rank 1 * ((1.0 + |Sum of all rank bonuses + Dynamic Bonuses|))

Where the modulus brackets || simply turn whatever they contain positive.

If you want it in one formula, if you take Total bonuses = (Sum of all rank bonuses + Dynamic Bonuses), you have:

New Value = Base Value at Rank 1 * ((1.0 + |Total bonuses|)^((-1 * Total bonuses) / |Total bonuses|))


If you have a power with a base cooldown bonus of 12 seconds:

• a 200% bonus will give you 12/(1+2)=4 seconds, ie one third the base cooldown
• a 100% bonus will give you 12/(1+1)=6 seconds, ie half the base cooldown
• a -100% bonus will give you 12*(1+|-1|)=24 seconds, ie twice the base cooldown
• a -200% bonus will give you 12*(1+|-2|)=36 seconds, ie three times the base cooldown

Basically, a change of 60% will harm your overall cooldown far more if you already have a negative cooldown bonus than if you have a positive cooldown bonus. If your bonus is very high and the power has a small base cooldown, the change will be negligible.

Modifié par Pressedcat, 01 juin 2012 - 01:26 .

[FirroSeranel]

Ah, okay that makes sense. So a 60% penalty from a damage reduction power, with a 200% weight bonus, really is more like a 20% penalty. And I suppose I could offset it even more with armor bonuses, and research bonuses, if I end up taking it.

I may not though... I like the idea of being able to chain-detonate with a very fast double throw (even if they dodge the first projectile, the second will almost always hit), with Dark Channel. Plus, I figure, I'm an Adept. If my normal shields and health aren't enough, I figure I'm doing something wrong.  Just like at first, I took AP Ammo, thinking it would be useful to shoot through walls.  But why would I shoot through walls on Insanity, to cause low damage with long exposure, when I could toss powers -around- said walls, with high damage and short exposure?  Answer: I don't.  My shiny AP ammo was just sitting there in a neglected gun that got fired maybe once or twice a mission, to polish off an almost-dead enemy.

Now on my Vanguard? Heh, Barrier/Fortification/Defense Matrix are clearly totally worth it there, since Nova doesn't care about Cooldown, just shields.

Modifié par FirroSeranel, 01 juin 2012 - 01:52 .