260 réponses à ce sujet

[AlienAtSystem]

ShdwPlayer wrote...

Again this is an exagerration. I'd rather wait and see how the krysae does and then wait for bioware's balance if they do decide to do so rather than speculate about what we should do to it now

BioWare has neither the people nor the time to play as much as the communities. That's the reason for feedback and forums. Four days is enough for geeks to test out a weapon in a lot of playthroughs and get an opinion.

And why not voice our opinion how it should be fixed? BioWare listened to the community, and I believe they still do. And maybe somewhere in a pile of flame there is actually a good idea.

[ArkkAngel007]

mcsquared2 wrote...

Personally, for long range sniping which I like to do, I find the N7 Valiant better! The Krysae Sniper Rifle has a bit of a delay from time you pull the trigger to the time the shell actually hits the target. Also. with the Valiant, I can shoot through the vision slot in their ballastic shields and collect lots of headshots; I tried this with the Krysae and was unable to do this! Basically, every weapon has its good and bad points.

In tight quarters maps, the Krysae players I was with were slaughtering everything while my Valient 1 was picking up assists, but on Firebase Jade, I was second, just 10,000 points or so behind a Krysae player who focused on the bigger enemies.

If people spent more time outside of places like FBW, maybe they would see that it isn't that OP.

[robarcool]

Radio Moscow wrote...

Oh thank goodness, bless that kind soul.

lol

[ShdwPlayer]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

Mevanna wrote...


First, I forgot to say earlier - thanks. It seems very rare in a forum to have a discussion that is actually sensible and respectful and doesn't disintegrate into flaming. (this is not irony or something, I actually mean it like I said)

I second that.

That said, of course there's two ways to balance things out - pull the high performing things down or raise the rest up. It'll end up more balanced either way, and the game definitely needs a lot of buffing, but some nerfing should be in order too to actually preserve the difficulty level. If everything is buffed to the point where a GI with a Krysae won't outperform everyone anymore, the enemies will need to be knocked up quite a few notches too or gold will become a joke. So... if it's a choice between nerfing a few things or buffing a lot of them, may as well nerf them - the result will be the same.

Same here, although I have to add a variant of Okhams Razor. It may be relative to say wether something needs to be buffed or the rest to be nerfed, but it is definetly easier to fix the smaller of these two groups (and thus declaring that group the imbalanced one)

That's easy enough to say. But again if we balanced against the larger group of semi-viable (or non optimal) weapons (most SMG's, most assault rifles, semi-automatic sniper rifles - indras, incisors, raptors, some shotguns, etc) where would this game be? We'd all have "peashooters" (pardon the exagerration)

[clarkusdarkus]

it's crap on anything other than an infiltrator, dont nerf it.

[ShdwPlayer]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

ShdwPlayer wrote...

Again this is an exagerration. I'd rather wait and see how the krysae does and then wait for bioware's balance if they do decide to do so rather than speculate about what we should do to it now

BioWare has neither the people nor the time to play as much as the communities. That's the reason for feedback and forums. Four days is enough for geeks to test out a weapon in a lot of playthroughs and get an opinion.

And why not voice our opinion how it should be fixed? BioWare listened to the community, and I believe they still do. And maybe somewhere in a pile of flame there is actually a good idea.

Because the community can be prone to rash decisions by a very vocal part. Falcon nerfs - for example. They (bioware) seem to be balancing out things step by step. Not saying it's bad to speculate, just a bunch of nerf threads cropping up a few days after dlc

[Mevanna]

ShdwPlayer wrote...

Taken to the extreme though (as some might argue in the case of the falcon) nerfed guns would become just as usable as the myriad gimped weapons we already have. "Oh I see you have a three shot semi-automatic explosive sniper rifle - let's spread out it's max damage to it's area of effect after all it does AOE damage (and AOE skills are usually balanced in doing less damage then single target abilities over a larger area)" End result it takes of two bars of health on regular troops since it could potentially take off two bars of health from *10 regular troops.

Again this is an exagerration. I'd rather wait and see how the krysae does and then wait for bioware's balance if they do decide to do so rather than speculate about what we should do to it now

Edit

My god I came up with that aburd example all by myself didn't even see your post typing this. Funny how we both came up with practically the same thing.

Again the area damage does not stay constant. I'm pretty sure of that

Agreed. The Falcon (though didn't have one at the point when that whole thing took place) sounds like a case of nerfing overcompensation. I'm not suggesting that. Just a bit less damage, maybe give it as much damage spread over five enemies as a Javelin would do on one, or a Black Widow on three.

That way it would still be less good than those two (as it should be since it's a rare, not an ultra-rare) because it won't always hit that many people, but it'll still definitely be viable and fun to play.

Also, love the fact that we came up with the same thing simultaneously.
We are building a consensus.

[G Kevin]

People have been throwing around balance here and there and I want to say something about that.

Balance is good if the game is for competitive playing field. ME3 MP is not, rather it is a cooperative playing field.

Now from a personal viewpoint, the most balanced games tend to be the most boring games with less replay value. In a cooperative game, skill should never be a major factor in having fun with a game. If someone is not that great at a particular game then there should be ways he can get up to par with the rest of the team without having to worry about getting better at the game. I usually find unbalanced games much more fun than balanced ones.

Now if I say this, everyone might look down on me but oh well. I had the most fun playing CoD games than Halo. Why? Because, unlike Halo, CoD games had terrible balance for certain weapons that there would be no point in using a certain weapon over another if you wanted optimal performance. However, that was a good thing. It allowed people to be on a certain minimum level of performance that is acceptable for a team. Then there are people like me who will use the most underpowered weapons to dominate the overpowered ones.

Now you may be wondering why I mentioned a competitive game such as CoD when I'm talking about ME3? Well, the point is, unbalanced weapons in these games make them more fun overall than having a game with everything balanced. I have more fun in CoD, ME3 MP, than I do in Starcraft 2.

Yes, this game is not balanced, however, that's what gives it some replay value. Later down the road, I'm going to be using my underpowered weapons as my favorite equipment. It's just another part of the game.

Also, when I'm in a gold game and I want to have fun, I would gladly take someone who can pull his weight and allow everyone one of us to experiment and have a blast in it.

[AlienAtSystem]

ShdwPlayer wrote...

That's easy enough to say. But again if we balanced against the larger group of semi-viable (or non optimal) weapons (most SMG's, most assault rifles, semi-automatic sniper rifles - indras, incisors, raptors, some shotguns, etc) where would this game be? We'd all have "peashooters" (pardon the exagerration)

I know that this is the case. Okhams Razor should not be used to soon, anway.

But "peashooter" also is relative. One could also argue that even Javelin and Widows are overpowered and that they, too should be made weaker resulting in an overall more difficult game.

G Kevin, that is actually a valid point. Problem is always drawing the border where imbalance goes from fun to annoying.

Modifié par AlienAtSystem, 01 juin 2012 - 05:41 .

[AldarionnEB]

So I make it a point to very rarely call for nerfs or cry OP on certain guns/abilities/whatever for any game. Personally I think that if the developers put it in the game, it's fair to use, but the Krysae is OP. It needs to have something dialed back, because otherwise it's just silly.

It's armor piercing
It has exploding rounds
The projectile it fires is semi-tracking (like the Geth Plasma Shotgun, but somewhat more subtle)
The projectile is air-burst (it explodes when it gets in proximity of a target, not just if it hits)
The explosion has a radius large enough to hit multiple enemies in a spawn, and the splash damage is significant.
The scope automatically zooms to a comfortable level on any target at any range making it impossible to screw up aiming.
It doesn't weigh enough to justify not taking it on classes like Asari Adepts or various Engineers.
It has almost no recoil and a relatively quick reload time.

All of this, combined with the massive damage boosts from Tactical Cloak/Tactical Scan/Hunter mode/Etc... make the gun an obvious choice over any other sniper rifle in the game. Why use a Black Widow that has massive recoil and requires actual aiming, and gains no benefit against boss targets for headshots when I can use a Krysae and just scope and fire at any part of the mob from any range and kill it more effectively, as well as surrounding targets?

It's does its job too well, but I'm afraid that if BioWare DOES nerf it, they will go too far the other direction and make it unusably bad. They need to dial down the splash damage a bit and/or remove the air bursting/ground bursting effect so people actually have to hit targets with it for the rounds to do damage. As it is, they can just aim at the feet of any group of targets and kill them all in a single clip.

[billy the squid]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The Krysae, lacks the armour piercing capacity, doesn't benefit from headshot bonus (as far as I know) but does have the capacity of the BW and the damage potential as well as splash damage. Problem is that the splash radius might be to large if the damage stays the same from the point of impact.

I like that all the rifles are different. The Krysae I found doesn't perform well vs armour nor vs bosses or when you need a precision headshot. Nerf the damage outright then what's the point. Your left with a rfle that doesn't penetrate armour, does even less damage than above, which I believe it does, bar the BW  and has, like all rifles limited capacity. Why would I use it again? For instance if one uses a Vyper, that is your personal prefrence, but from what I've seen you're going to get kicked fast. there's a balance between prefrence and effectiveness.

So if you are against reducing damage, what measures do you propose?

First, consider changing the class to an assault rifle. I'm not sure on this, but it would certainly be one way of rmoving the Infiltrator class bonuses which seem to increase the damage so much.

If it is to remain as a sniper rifle, then tonning down either the spalsh damage or the radius of the explosion might be in order and the airburst proximity to the target should be reduced, ie: needs to be closer or removed so theround needs to hit.

Other than that, nothing for now. It has no armour peircing capacity, no headshot bonus (as far as I know) so precision shots are wasted and does less damage that the top end single shot rifles, slightly less than the BW. But doesn't get the penetration to armour and damage bonuses that the BW gets.

I wouldn't recomend adding peircing capacity to the Krysae as an inherrent characteristic, That can be mitigated somewhat via mods, plus armour penetration is the job of the Widows and the Javelin, so the Krysae shouldn't overlap onto their territory.

Modifié par billy the squid, 01 juin 2012 - 05:44 .

[ShdwPlayer]

Therein lies the big quandry of "balance"

Also as a reply to Mevanna. Dunno how hard that'd be for bioware to code though. A weapon that detects how many enemies were hit by it's AOE and then spreading/reducing that damage. Explosion already deal less damage the farther away from impact an enemy is. I think this might possibly be the best bioware can do

Mechanics of the gun should be truly qualified before arguing wether it is OP or not. Certain things could already make it balanced for example and we just don't realize it. Maybe it's not inherrently armor-piercing, maybe explosions do reduced damage from point of impact. Maybe we find out later on it's better on mobs and other snipers do better on bosses etc.

Modifié par ShdwPlayer, 01 juin 2012 - 05:48 .

[ArkkAngel007]

billy the squid wrote...

AlienAtSystem wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The Krysae, lacks the armour piercing capacity, doesn't benefit from headshot bonus (as far as I know) but does have the capacity of the BW and the damage potential as well as splash damage. Problem is that the splash radius might be to large if the damage stays the same from the point of impact.

I like that all the rifles are different. The Krysae I found doesn't perform well vs armour nor vs bosses or when you need a precision headshot. Nerf the damage outright then what's the point. Your left with a rfle that doesn't penetrate armour, does even less damage than above, which I believe it does, bar the BW  and has, like all rifles limited capacity. Why would I use it again? For instance if one uses a Vyper, that is your personal prefrence, but from what I've seen you're going to get kicked fast. there's a balance between prefrence and effectiveness.

So if you are against reducing damage, what measures do you propose?

First, consider changing the class to an assault rifle. I'm not sure on this, but it would certainly be one way of rmoving the Infiltrator class bonuses which seem to increase the damage so much.

If it is to remain as a sniper rifle, then tonning down either the spalsh damage or the radius of the explosion might be in order.

Other than that, nothing for now. It has no armour peircing capacity, no headshot bonus (as far as I know) so precision shots are wasted and does less damage that the top end single shot rifles, slightly less than the BW. But doesn't get the penetration to armour and damage bonuses that the BW gets.

I wouldn't recomend adding peircing capacity to the Krysae as an inherrent characteristic, That can be mitigated somewhat via mods, plus armour penetration is the job of the Widows and the Javelin, so the Krysae shouldn't overlap onto their territory.

Changing it to an AR would then make Soldiers OP with Adrenaline Rush.  The only reason people want it moved from a SR is because of the Infiltrator.  Thing is, Valients and BW can do just as much damage in the right hands of an Infiltrator.  So we need to nerf those as well?  Lower the AoE and make sure the the AoE damage is consistent, reduce reserve ammo, and weigh it down a bit, and you have a balanced weapon.

[Mevanna]

ShdwPlayer wrote...

AlienAtSystem wrote...

ShdwPlayer wrote...

Again this is an exagerration. I'd rather wait and see how the krysae does and then wait for bioware's balance if they do decide to do so rather than speculate about what we should do to it now

BioWare has neither the people nor the time to play as much as the communities. That's the reason for feedback and forums. Four days is enough for geeks to test out a weapon in a lot of playthroughs and get an opinion.

And why not voice our opinion how it should be fixed? BioWare listened to the community, and I believe they still do. And maybe somewhere in a pile of flame there is actually a good idea.

Because the community can be prone to rash decisions by a very vocal part. Falcon nerfs - for example. They (bioware) seem to be balancing out things step by step. Not saying it's bad to speculate, just a bunch of nerf threads cropping up a few days after dlc

I always assumed the people at Bioware know not to take forum complaints too literally - they are a good indicator of people's general opinions, but most nerfing/buffing suggestions by the community tend to overshoot the mark a bit, and in the end the developers are the ones that should actually know what is balanced and what is not.
But I guess AlienAtSystem has a point there - they don't have time to test it. People's opinions are all they have to go on, so naturally the fixes will overshoot.

[Zehtuka]

Played with a couple friends yesterday, we all used the Krysae X.  Firebase Giant, Cerberus, 3 hacking objectives...



it should be possible to get the same results with a Valiant squad.

[AlienAtSystem]

billy the squid wrote...

First, consider changing the class to an assault rifle. I'm not sure on this, but it would certainly be one way of rmoving the Infiltrator class bonuses which seem to increase the damage so much.

If it is to remain as a sniper rifle, then tonning down either the spalsh damage or the radius of the explosion might be in order and the airburst proximity to the target should be reduced, ie: needs to be closer or removed so theround needs to hit.

Other than that, nothing for now. It has no armour peircing capacity, no headshot bonus (as far as I know) so precision shots are wasted and does less damage that the top end single shot rifles, slightly less than the BW. But doesn't get the penetration to armour and damage bonuses that the BW gets.

I wouldn't recomend adding peircing capacity to the Krysae as an inherrent characteristic, That can be mitigated somewhat via mods, plus armour penetration is the job of the Widows and the Javelin, so the Krysae shouldn't overlap onto their territory.

Changing it to an assault rifle might make it overlap to much with the Striker and Falcon. And I think scopes were meant as exclusive attribute for sniper rifles.

Other than that, I have to agree although I think the damage should be taken down a little bit. So that the damage a single target gets fits more with viper or mantis and not with black widow.

[billy the squid]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

AlienAtSystem wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

The Krysae, lacks the armour piercing capacity, doesn't benefit from headshot bonus (as far as I know) but does have the capacity of the BW and the damage potential as well as splash damage. Problem is that the splash radius might be to large if the damage stays the same from the point of impact.

I like that all the rifles are different. The Krysae I found doesn't perform well vs armour nor vs bosses or when you need a precision headshot. Nerf the damage outright then what's the point. Your left with a rfle that doesn't penetrate armour, does even less damage than above, which I believe it does, bar the BW  and has, like all rifles limited capacity. Why would I use it again? For instance if one uses a Vyper, that is your personal prefrence, but from what I've seen you're going to get kicked fast. there's a balance between prefrence and effectiveness.

So if you are against reducing damage, what measures do you propose?

First, consider changing the class to an assault rifle. I'm not sure on this, but it would certainly be one way of rmoving the Infiltrator class bonuses which seem to increase the damage so much.

If it is to remain as a sniper rifle, then tonning down either the spalsh damage or the radius of the explosion might be in order.

Other than that, nothing for now. It has no armour peircing capacity, no headshot bonus (as far as I know) so precision shots are wasted and does less damage that the top end single shot rifles, slightly less than the BW. But doesn't get the penetration to armour and damage bonuses that the BW gets.

I wouldn't recomend adding peircing capacity to the Krysae as an inherrent characteristic, That can be mitigated somewhat via mods, plus armour penetration is the job of the Widows and the Javelin, so the Krysae shouldn't overlap onto their territory.

Changing it to an AR would then make Soldiers OP with Adrenaline Rush.  The only reason people want it moved from a SR is because of the Infiltrator.  Thing is, Valients and BW can do just as much damage in the right hands of an Infiltrator.  So we need to nerf those as well?  Lower the AoE and make sure the the AoE damage is consistent, reduce reserve ammo, and weigh it down a bit, and you have a balanced weapon.

Nope, no need to nerf the BW, it's rather rare already. And has it's other draw backs. Only thing that needs to be tonned down with the Krysae is the area of the damage and the airburst. That's about it, maybe weight. I don't think it needs hitting with a nerf stick.

[Dshinakuma]

The Krysae Sniper Rifle has only been out for 4 days and people are calling for a downgrade in weapon damage.......fairly laughable. The gun does as it's intended, it's an anti-materiel rifle JUST LIKE the M-98 Widow. If you're calling for a nerf on the Krysae (which is a good gun) then nerf the M-98 Widow, Claymore Shotgun, N7 Valiant, Geth Plasma Shotgun, N7 Hurricane, Black Widow, Carnifex, Paladin, and all the other "good" guns everyone in the ME3 community uses over all the others.

I honestly like the gun and think it is good as is. Yes it is powerful at level X, but it still has its flaws such as; it does no piercing damage, it fires rockets that enemies can easily dodge, it shoots blanks sometimes *frustrating*, and it's fairly week against enemies on the harder difficulties without any power buffs.

The Krysae is best with the Geth Infiltrator spec'd for damage. It takes down a Geth Prime's shields in 3 shots or 1 whole clip. It takes about 6-7 shots to take down a Ravager. 2-3 Shots on Pyros, and all of this is from the top of my head.....On Gold difficulty. Any other class it would probably take more.

In the end, the gun was made for damage as its description is an anti-materiel rifle *made to take down BIG things*. I use either the Krysae Sniper Rifle, Geth Plasma Shotgun, or the Claymore on my Geth Infiltrator. If the gun seems to be a problem then Bioware should just nerf everything. It does what it does, and does it very well!

[AlienAtSystem]

Mevanna wrote...

I always assumed the people at Bioware know not to take forum complaints too literally - they are a good indicator of people's general opinions, but most nerfing/buffing suggestions by the community tend to overshoot the mark a bit, and in the end the developers are the ones that should actually know what is balanced and what is not.
But I guess AlienAtSystem has a point there - they don't have time to test it. People's opinions are all they have to go on, so naturally the fixes will overshoot.

The problem is the same everywhere. The people with the mediocre opinion get shouted down by those with an extreme, and what we see from the outside is an extreme opinion.
The second problem is, as you have illustrated, that BioWare also has not the time to read these threads carefully.

[Mevanna]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

First, consider changing the class to an assault rifle. I'm not sure on this, but it would certainly be one way of rmoving the Infiltrator class bonuses which seem to increase the damage so much.

If it is to remain as a sniper rifle, then tonning down either the spalsh damage or the radius of the explosion might be in order and the airburst proximity to the target should be reduced, ie: needs to be closer or removed so theround needs to hit.

Other than that, nothing for now. It has no armour peircing capacity, no headshot bonus (as far as I know) so precision shots are wasted and does less damage that the top end single shot rifles, slightly less than the BW. But doesn't get the penetration to armour and damage bonuses that the BW gets.

I wouldn't recomend adding peircing capacity to the Krysae as an inherrent characteristic, That can be mitigated somewhat via mods, plus armour penetration is the job of the Widows and the Javelin, so the Krysae shouldn't overlap onto their territory.

Changing it to an assault rifle might make it overlap to much with the Striker and Falcon. And I think scopes were meant as exclusive attribute for sniper rifles.

Other than that, I have to agree although I think the damage should be taken down a little bit. So that the damage a single target gets fits more with viper or mantis and not with black widow.

I do believe we are reaching a consensus. ^^

Basically, what everyone seems to agree on is no more air bursts and less damage by either less of a splash or an evenly spread amount of splash damage equal to that of the other sniper rifles.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Modifié par Mevanna, 01 juin 2012 - 05:57 .

[ShdwPlayer]

If it already does reduced damage depending on how far you are from the explosion then I'm fine with it where it is now. Otherwise....

[Ogrinash]

Ha, after failing Wave 10 as a fetch quest on Dagger versus Cerberus Gold today, I'm all for anything that can nullify Phantoms (weapons).

God, there's so many of them.

[Lee80]

Yes, Krysae Sniper Rifle definitely needs a buff. I agree with everything said. (rose colored glasses were buffed on June 1)

[Alexraptor1]

Dshinakuma wrote...

The Krysae Sniper Rifle has only been out for 4 days and people are calling for a downgrade in weapon damage.......fairly laughable. The gun does as it's intended, it's an anti-materiel rifle JUST LIKE the M-98 Widow. If you're calling for a nerf on the Krysae (which is a good gun) then nerf the M-98 Widow, Claymore Shotgun, N7 Valiant, Geth Plasma Shotgun, N7 Hurricane, Black Widow, Carnifex, Paladin, and all the other "good" guns everyone in the ME3 community uses over all the others.

I honestly like the gun and think it is good as is. Yes it is powerful at level X, but it still has its flaws such as; it does no piercing damage, it fires rockets that enemies can easily dodge, it shoots blanks sometimes *frustrating*, and it's fairly week against enemies on the harder difficulties without any power buffs.

The Krysae is best with the Geth Infiltrator spec'd for damage. It takes down a Geth Prime's shields in 3 shots or 1 whole clip. It takes about 6-7 shots to take down a Ravager. 2-3 Shots on Pyros, and all of this is from the top of my head.....On Gold difficulty. Any other class it would probably take more.

In the end, the gun was made for damage as its description is an anti-materiel rifle *made to take down BIG things*. I use either the Krysae Sniper Rifle, Geth Plasma Shotgun, or the Claymore on my Geth Infiltrator. If the gun seems to be a problem then Bioware should just nerf everything. It does what it does, and does it very well!

Dude, ALL the listed guns there require an element of personal skill to use.
The Widow requires that you can hit the small target known as the head to get the most effective use out of it.

Krysae? Just aim in the general direction of the target and shoot, no need to carefully line up a shot for the head.

[Mevanna]

Ogrinash wrote...

Ha, after failing Wave 10 as a fetch quest on Dagger versus Cerberus Gold today, I'm all for anything that can nullify Phantoms (weapons).

God, there's so many of them.

You'll be wanting the Reegar Carbine, then. It's a Phantom killer.