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PLEASE, BioWare, fix the Krysae Sniper Rifle!


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#151
ShdwPlayer

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Sucky players are still going to be at the most decent with it and semi-viable on gold.

How long do you think your so called 0 skill sniper rifle is gonna keep the good players interested? It's not really a problem and crying for nerfs (in the end Bioware is gonna decide either way when they release their balance changes) is kinda meh. It's a good sniper rifle to blow of steam once in a while - mindless fun where you just wanna dominate. I don't see how it's gonna harm the multiplayer of this game

Edit

Now it seems we're arguing fun facter versus the supposed unwanted side effects this gun is gonna have on multiplayer. As you mentioned it's going to become a flavor of the month gun with everyone using it (which is probably never going to be the case). And gold matches becoming too easy because everyone will be using it (or that 1 dude who's just cleaning up entire gold waves - highly unlikely that a single dude can be everywhere at once, and to do even that will still take skills)

Modifié par ShdwPlayer, 01 juin 2012 - 03:37 .


#152
Guest_920103db_*

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InfamousResult wrote...

We want it BALANCED.


And by we you mean the minority who strictly plays gold, usually with their friends and who comes on the forums mainly to demand nerfs and hate on the horrible randoms they were teamed up with. Yes, those people are certainly the ones with the superior opinion on what and what not to nerf. 

Modifié par 920103db, 01 juin 2012 - 03:44 .


#153
Someone With Mass

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I think it's pretty crappy against armor compared to the other sniper rifles.

That's why I think people are being way too melodramatic about the whole thing.

#154
ShdwPlayer

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920103db wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

We want it BALANCED.


And by we you mean the minority who strictly plays gold, usually with their friends and who comes on the forums mainly to demand nerfs and hate on the horrible randoms they were teamed up with. Yes, those people are certainly the ones with the superior opinion on what and what not to nerf. 


Coming from someone who plays (gasp!) even public gold games... Sorry for this but had the exact same thoughts when I read that. Wasn't gonna comment but since I'm not the only one who seems to have perceived this. You already seem to have a group ("we") that you play with. It's simple enough to control games within that group. Doesn't make sense to apply or impose your preferences on the whole community

Modifié par ShdwPlayer, 01 juin 2012 - 03:49 .


#155
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Someone With Mass wrote...

I think it's pretty crappy against armor compared to the other sniper rifles.

That's why I think people are being way too melodramatic about the whole thing.


Indeed, well more or less. But calling it overpowered is laughable. I also find it amusing soo many bring up the fact that couple of experienced player with a lot of experience playing together and of previous speed runs manage to beat the previous record by using this rifle. So what does that tell us? Is it overpowerd? No. Does it fare well when used by a group? Yes.

#156
Someone With Mass

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920103db wrote...

Indeed, well more or less. But calling it overpowered is laughable. I also find it amusing soo many bring up the fact that couple of experienced player with a lot of experience playing together and of previous speed runs manage to beat the previous record by using this rifle. So what does that tell us? Is it overpowerd? No. Does it fare well when used by a group? Yes.


That's also a little sad. People getting mad because their special record isn't so special anymore.

#157
AlienAtSystem

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John123453242 wrote...

What do people even mean by balancing a coop game? Balancing is for PVP. You can't give one side OPed guns and give the other side pea shooters. Do you mean that you want all guns to be the exact same?


Actually, balance in PvE is better defined as for PvP. In PvP, both sides react in ways that cannot be easily modeled. In PvE, you can break balance down to one point: Damage Potential. Quite simple. Given an endless amount of Troops coming down a hallways, with a player character on one end behind cover, how many enemies can he kill before dying?
And no matter how you try to argue around it, the Krysae is beating every rifle and every power on that scale.
Let's compare it to the most famous alternative: The Black Widow. Works fairly good, given that the Black Widow also has three shots.
Now we let a group of enemies come down our hallway. Standard size, meaning three or four unshielded units and three shielded, one of them tougher than the other two. Health like in a Gold Game.
I am an Infiltrator ans have my cloak skilled for max damage (which is not changing the outcome much, since it affects both rifles equally). When I fire the Krysae at the enemies down the hallway, the first shot will kill most of the unshielded troops and seriously harm the shields of the rest. The second shot will kill the rest of the unshielded, and, ignoring the meatgate, get the shielded guys down to their health bar. Third shot, and the formerly shielded troops are 90% history. I did not even had to aim for heads.
Same with the Black Widow. The First shot will take out one, if I'm lucky, two unshielded troops. Second shot the same, although the chance for a succesful second doublekill is very low. So with two shots I have, when I'm lucky, killed most of the unshielded enemies and not made a dent in the shielded. With the third shot, I can take out another unshielded, if there is one. Or I can take out the shield of one of the others, but I have to aim at his head for that, or there will be shield left that ruins my next shot.
And then there are the meta-factors: The Krysae has the more spare ammunition and is easier to obtain. You can have a Krysae X before seeing a Black Widow I. It is also lighter, which means more power in the same time, if you are not playing Infiltrator.

From another point of view: Since the Damage dealt is pretty fairly represented by the Experience, in a balanced PvE game (meaning every possible build has the same Damage Potential), the experience bars can be used as measure for skill. The Krysae completely decontructs that. I can place a noob who has no idea how to use abilities or the scope next to my level 20 infiltrator with the Black Widow and an inhumane accuracy for headshots (eg. Legion), and give the noob a Krysae, and the noob will be the one who dealt more damage.

Arguing about Balance is never easy and highly subjective, but there is a sufficient indicator for a weapon to be imbalanced: It is able to deal more damage than every other weapon in the arsenal and renders skill completely pointless. The Krysae does both.

To stop Flames and save you the work of opening my multiplayer manifest: Yes, I own both weapons, and I tried both on Gold against Geth.

Constructive comment on how to balance it: Remove the aerial explosions so it requires aiming to hit and make it a one-shot weapon, as well as a slight reduction of damage. That would make it better against groups of small enemies than a Widow, but weaker against shielded.

Modifié par AlienAtSystem, 01 juin 2012 - 04:04 .


#158
Guest_920103db_*

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Hummm, I've a feeling by the end of this day I'm going to have to change my rule from

Lofrof's law is an observation made by Lofrof in 2012 that has not yet become an Internet adage. It states: "As an Mass Effect 3 multiplayer discussion grows longer, the probability of someone crying about FBWGG approaches 1.

to

Lofrof's law is an observation made by Lofrof in 2012 that has not yet become an Internet adage. It states: "As an Mass Effect 3 multiplayer discussion grows longer, the probability of someone crying about the Krysae approaches 1.

Modifié par 920103db, 01 juin 2012 - 03:58 .


#159
ThirdChild ZKI

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Anti-Material Rifles by Definition:

Anti-materiel rifles are similar in form and appearance to <b>modern sniper rifles</b> and can often serve in that role, though they are usually chambered for cartridges more powerful than are normally required for neutralizing a human and can operate at a greater range. In general, anti-materiel rifles are chambered for 12.7x99mm NATO (.50 BMG), 12.7x108mm Russian, 14.5x114mm Russian, and 20mm cartridges. The large cartridges are required to be <b>able to fire projectiles containing usable payloads such as explosives</b>, armor-piercing cores, incendiaries, or combinations of these, as found in the Raufoss Mk211 projectile.

. . . Sounds to me like the Krysae performs exactly as it should for what it is; an <b>Anti-Materiel Rifle</b>

#160
Kuato Livezz

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Why is it OP'ed. What game type are you playing. I might be doing something wrong, but in gold, I cant get 1 shot 1 kills with it, ok, maybe husks and swamers. It's more forgiving than a BW, but it doesn't mow down groups of enemies in a single clip. This is with no ammo mods or rails etc.

#161
Dave92

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Not op imo...sometimes the shots do zero damage to enemies. Might be a bug or something but when I use it i'll occasionally see the shot direct impact and do no damage to the enemy at all. Plus it takes quite a few shots to kill the tougher enemies like brutes, banshees, and atlases.

#162
ShdwPlayer

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It's not crappy against armor though [^ Salarian Infiltrator, not even the geth, takes down a brute on gold in about a clip with proxy mines debuff, amps and ammo powers]. Again not saying the gun isn't strong just that it's just stupid to nerf guns in a coop game, though I'd be fine either way if Bioware decides to seeing as I'm not going to be exclusively using it at the cost of everything else). It's a gun you take when you're a good player and you just wanna dominate a few games just for the heck of it.

And your argument is pretty limited and highly idealized to showcase Krysae being better. Against clumps of unshielded or moderately shielded enemies - surprise! an AOE weapon does better.

Modifié par ShdwPlayer, 01 juin 2012 - 04:08 .


#163
Kuato Livezz

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ShdwPlayer wrote...

SO people still winning games and using legit classes and characters feel they're gimped when their teammate does well? In a coop game? Really?

It's a powerful gun admittedly but it's not going to cause everyone to run only that and kick everyone else who's not using it. Everything is practically viable even in gold in the the hands of a skilled player. So sucky players now have the capacity to be at least decent and contribute? Fine by me, less weight to carry in gold matches when it's a public game. I'm not gonna get mad because the gun clears "everything except two guys" wave. Score is only useful for the XP. Seeing as most everyone has max chars. It's pointless


Perfectly said.  

These same players probably look at the squadmates equipment and if they see an "OP'ed" weapon, their inner monologe says "noob".

#164
AlienAtSystem

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And your argument is pretty limited and highly idealized to showcase Krysae being better. Against clumps of unshielded or moderately shielded enemies - surprise! an AOE weapon does better.


That is partially correct. While it shows perfectly how dangerous a Krysae is, it is also how Waves are deployed in ME 3 multiplayer - in clumps of unshielded or moderately shielded enemies around a single more powerful one.

#165
ericjdev

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Every other post in this GD forum is 'this gun isn't powerful enough' or 'this gun is too powerful' . Shut up and play the game.

#166
D.Shepard

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BlackoutOmega wrote...

afb2271 wrote...

I have tried it. It is way overpowered.


It's a co-op game, who cares? This isn't PVP. 
Just because somebody is using a gun is no reason to kick them, and if it's that big of a deal for you, go play Gold and stop flooding the forum with these pointless threads, go vent somewhere else.


Beside if it was PvP even the difference between classes would make the game unbalanced but as you mentioned this is co-op.
Honestly the amount of "Neft that, Nerf this" topics is getting irritating.

Out of curiousity: what does "overpowered" mean in a co-op context? In other words what parameter are the"Nerf all things" persons using to say something is "over-powered" and not simply "powerful".

#167
AlienAtSystem

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D.Shepard wrote...

Out of curiousity: what does "overpowered" mean in a co-op context? In other words what parameter are the"Nerf all things" persons using to say something is "over-powered" and not simply "powerful".

I think a good indicator is that you have to adjust your descriptions for other weapons a lot when you try to call this rifle "powerful".

#168
ShdwPlayer

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AlienAtSystem wrote...

And your argument is pretty limited and highly idealized to showcase Krysae being better. Against clumps of unshielded or moderately shielded enemies - surprise! an AOE weapon does better.


That is partially correct. While it shows perfectly how dangerous a Krysae is, it is also how Waves are deployed in ME 3 multiplayer - in clumps of unshielded or moderately shielded enemies around a single more powerful one.


Uhuh so on larger maps against say cerberus for example that will always be how you find enemies? Not a single nemesis here, another one there, a centurion right here, a couple of guardians over there, phantoms all over the place, and an atlas that takes waaay more shots to down than with a widow or javelin?

#169
AlienAtSystem

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ShdwPlayer wrote...

Uhuh so on larger maps against say cerberus for example that will always be how you find enemies? Not a single nemesis here, another one there, a centurion right here, a couple of guardians over there, phantoms all over the place, and an atlas that takes waaay more shots to down than with a widow or javelin?

No, that is not. But as many people against the nerfing have allready pointed out, the Krysae is doing nearly as well as a Widow or Black Widow against single enemies, with the possible exception of the Guardian.

#170
Mevanna

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ShdwPlayer wrote...

AlienAtSystem wrote...

And your argument is pretty limited and highly idealized to showcase Krysae being better. Against clumps of unshielded or moderately shielded enemies - surprise! an AOE weapon does better.


That is partially correct. While it shows perfectly how dangerous a Krysae is, it is also how Waves are deployed in ME 3 multiplayer - in clumps of unshielded or moderately shielded enemies around a single more powerful one.


Uhuh so on larger maps against say cerberus for example that will always be how you find enemies? Not a single nemesis here, another one there, a centurion right here, a couple of guardians over there, phantoms all over the place, and an atlas that takes waaay more shots to down than with a widow or javelin?


Even in that case, the guy with the Krysae will score a hit with every single shot regardless of how bad he is at aiming while everyone else has to actually hit the target.

Modifié par Mevanna, 01 juin 2012 - 04:25 .


#171
ShdwPlayer

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It does and I agree with you. Still not really a reason to nerf a gun because it's AOE and could do that and still potentially take out 6 guys in one hit (an exagerration). The same idealized case could be made for the widow javelin and black widow.

Edit

Against single enemies stripped of shield widows javelins and valiants will still take them out in one hit (assuming a decent player). So the krysae doing so is nothing special.

It's fun to use and makes you feel powerful for those times when you just want that kind of game - in a coop game at that. So we're cheating the bots? Other players? Not really the case.

Modifié par ShdwPlayer, 01 juin 2012 - 04:27 .


#172
N7 Whiskey

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afb2271 wrote...

A point tally is kept. That is competitive enough for me. Also, I am playing on gold. These forums are a place to voice our opinions which makes my post valid.



Your post may be valid but your opinion is crap.  I have this gun at 10 and don't even care to use it because I don't think it's all that.  I hear people like you whine about it being OP, then I hear others whine that it's garbage.  Can't be both, so it's gotta fall somewhere in between which means NOT OP.

#173
I_pity_the_fool

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What do people even mean by balancing a coop game? Balancing is for PVP. You can't give one side OPed guns and give the other side pea shooters. Do you mean that you want all guns to be the exact same?


Do you think the foes in mecoop have "OPed guns"?

Out of curiousity: what does "overpowered" mean in a co-op context? In other words what parameter are the"Nerf all things" persons using to say something is "over-powered" and not simply "powerful".


I'll define balance for you if you like. Balance would mean that you have to take interesting choices and make tradeoffs for your build. That you can try out lots of different types of build, different powers and different sorts of weapons, and find that while each of them has a place, none allow you to completely dominate the game without using a great deal of skill.

#174
Apl_Juice

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If bosses were still headshot-able, then the Krysae would win at fighting mooks and lose at bosses. As it is now, the traditional snipers' only advantage was taken away, so guess who wins?

#175
AlienAtSystem

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ShdwPlayer wrote...

It does and I agree with you. Still not really a reason to nerf a gun because it's AOE and could do that and still potentially take out 6 guys in one hit (an exagerration). The same idealized case could be made for the widow javelin and black widow.


In fact, could not. It would require six guys coming at you single-file.

So you think it is okay to have a gun that is as good as another gun against single enemies without the need to aim, and better against many enemies? Meaning, basically, in every possible situation better as the other gun while weighting less and having more spare ammo?