260 réponses à ce sujet

[VRtheTrooper]

lol...lets nerf the entire game.

[AlienAtSystem]

ShdwPlayer wrote...

It does and I agree with you. Still not really a reason to nerf a gun because it's AOE and could do that and still potentially take out 6 guys in one hit (an exagerration). The same idealized case could be made for the widow javelin and black widow.

In fact, could not. It would require six guys coming at you single-file.

So you think it is okay to have a gun that is as good as another gun against single enemies without the need to aim, and better against many enemies? Meaning, basically, in every possible situation better as the other gun while weighting less and having more spare ammo?

[TheSevered]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

When I fire the Krysae at the enemies down the hallway, the first shot will kill most of the unshielded troops and seriously harm the shields of the rest. The second shot will kill the rest of the unshielded, and, ignoring the meatgate, get the shielded guys down to their health bar. Third shot, and the formerly shielded troops are 90% history. I did not even had to aim for heads.

What? My experience with the gun shooting three times at a group of enemies like that leaves the shielded enemies with a little amount of shield left and the non-shielded with a small amount of health with. As if the damage was shared across the group cause of how close together they were.

Yeah the gun is deadly, but I'm only finding that on the first few waves. After the shielded and armored enemies come you it just seems to soften them up for other players to make quicker work of them.

This experience was done of FBW/G/G, level X Krysae, Male Quarian spec for the sniper damage. And  I was VASTLY outscored by a Asari Adept spamming Warp/Throw. Even though I was shooting fast as possible, reload canceling shooting cloaked shots every other reload cycle.

Modifié par TheSevered, 01 juin 2012 - 04:30 .

[I_pity_the_fool]

I hear people like you whine about it being OP, then I hear others whine that it's garbage. Can't be both, so it's gotta fall somewhere in between which means NOT OP.

Why does it have to "fall somewhere in between"? Can't one or the other side just be wrong? For example, if I hear from some that the capital of the united states is new york and from others that the capital is Washington DC, that doesn't mean that the capital is really in Trenton, New Jersey.

[billy the squid]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

John123453242 wrote...

What do people even mean by balancing a coop game? Balancing is for PVP. You can't give one side OPed guns and give the other side pea shooters. Do you mean that you want all guns to be the exact same?

Actually, balance in PvE is better defined as for PvP. In PvP, both sides react in ways that cannot be easily modeled. In PvE, you can break balance down to one point: Damage Potential. Quite simple. Given an endless amount of Troops coming down a hallways, with a player character on one end behind cover, how many enemies can he kill before dying?
And no matter how you try to argue around it, the Krysae is beating every rifle and every power on that scale.
Let's compare it to the most famous alternative: The Black Widow. Works fairly good, given that the Black Widow also has three shots.
Now we let a group of enemies come down our hallway. Standard size, meaning three or four unshielded units and three shielded, one of them tougher than the other two. Health like in a Gold Game.
I am an Infiltrator ans have my cloak skilled for max damage (which is not changing the outcome much, since it affects both rifles equally). When I fire the Krysae at the enemies down the hallway, the first shot will kill most of the unshielded troops and seriously harm the shields of the rest. The second shot will kill the rest of the unshielded, and, ignoring the meatgate, get the shielded guys down to their health bar. Third shot, and the formerly shielded troops are 90% history. I did not even had to aim for heads.
Same with the Black Widow. The First shot will take out one, if I'm lucky, two unshielded troops. Second shot the same, although the chance for a succesful second doublekill is very low. So with two shots I have, when I'm lucky, killed most of the unshielded enemies and not made a dent in the shielded. With the third shot, I can take out another unshielded, if there is one. Or I can take out the shield of one of the others, but I have to aim at his head for that, or there will be shield left that ruins my next shot.
And then there are the meta-factors: The Krysae has the more spare ammunition and is easier to obtain. You can have a Krysae X before seeing a Black Widow I. It is also lighter, which means more power in the same time, if you are not playing Infiltrator.

From another point of view: Since the Damage dealt is pretty fairly represented by the Experience, in a balanced PvE game (meaning every possible build has the same Damage Potential), the experience bars can be used as measure for skill. The Krysae completely decontructs that. I can place a noob who has no idea how to use abilities or the scope next to my level 20 infiltrator with the Black Widow and an inhumane accuracy for headshots (eg. Legion), and give the noob a Krysae, and the noob will be the one who dealt more damage.

Arguing about Balance is never easy and highly subjective, but there is a sufficient indicator for a weapon to be imbalanced: It is able to deal more damage than every other weapon in the arsenal and renders skill completely pointless. The Krysae does both.

To stop Flames and save you the work of opening my multiplayer manifest: Yes, I own both weapons, and I tried both on Gold against Geth.

Constructive comment on how to balance it: Remove the aerial explosions so it requires aiming to hit and make it a one-shot weapon, as well as a slight reduction of damage. That would make it better against groups of small enemies than a Widow, but weaker against shielded.

Yet, It has no armour piercing capacity like the Widow or BW. Against groups of enemies it has undoubted potential for splash damage. But against armoured targets it suffers, in comparison to other Snipers such as BW Widow and the Javelin. It also, I believe, has no Headshot damage bonus, I think it's armour penetration issues are also somewhat mitigated by the pierce mod, but I have to give it a another go.

It's the multiple shot capacity, splash damage and the high damage combined which cause the problems if it's used on a GI, the combination of Hunter mode and Tac. Cloak speced for sniper damage ge damage boost. Stick on the extended barrel and pierce mods, with the sniper amp gear and you can wipe the floor with pretty much anything. It's the combination of the above which is causing the disagreement whether it is op or not, Not the weapon itself.

If anything it may be worth considering making it an assault rifle, which would remove the huge 40% sniper buff from the Infiltrators. Yet leave the weapon's base damage un altered. If not then an alternative may be to reduce the splash damage. But by and large the weapon is fine, it might need a tweek here and there. Not a bash with the nerf stick.

[Mevanna]

ShdwPlayer wrote...

It's fun to use and makes you feel powerful for those times when you just want that kind of game

And that is precisely the reason everyone likes it so much. What no one considers is that it makes you feel powerful at the cost of making everyone else feel useless.

I play the Javelin, for example, because I like the challenge of a difficult-to-aim, insane-damage weapon. But with the Krysae speed-killing everything en masse, you just feel like there's no more point to being an actual sniper.

[david_demos484]

This is silly. I like the new sniper aoe and I don't want some fool on a message board to get it nerfed. Try it with a GI with proxy on gold it is a whole lot of fun!! Why do you want to take away my fun?

[ThirdChild ZKI]

Ugh, I've said it before, regardless of whatever weapon you use, you NEED to aim. Sure you get splash damage, but pure logic dictates you'd deal more damage hitting something than grazing it, right?

Yes, there are players who would exploit splash damage, but let's see them NOT aim at a Banshee or Atlas and live to get the kill.

The weapon is fine. classes are fine. Some players simply know how to utilize both well, and some don't.

[AlienAtSystem]

billy the squid wrote...

It's the multiple shot capacity, splash damage and the high damage combined which cause the problems if it's used on a GI, the combination of Hunter mode and Tac. Cloak speced for sniper damage ge damage boost. Stick on the extended barrel and pierce mods, with the sniper amp gear and you can wipe the floor with pretty much anything. It's the combination of the above which is causing the disagreement whether it is op or not, Not the weapon itself.

.

It is correct that an Infiltrator can mop the floor with whatever rifle he takes, but up until now it was one enemy at a time. That was what defined an Infiltrator. With the Krysae, his "imbalance" is suddenly obvious. Nevermind that mopping the floor with the whole Platoon is the job for the Biotic, not the quy with the bolt-action rifle.

ThirdChild ZKI wrote...

Ugh, I've said it before,
regardless of whatever weapon you use, you NEED to aim. Sure you get
splash damage, but pure logic dictates you'd deal more damage hitting
something than grazing it, right?

Logic dictates that, but I believe the Krysae does the same damage everywhere.

Modifié par AlienAtSystem, 01 juin 2012 - 04:39 .

[Mevanna]

david_demos484 wrote...

This is silly. I like the new sniper aoe and I don't want some fool on a message board to get it nerfed. Try it with a GI with proxy on gold it is a whole lot of fun!! Why do you want to take away my fun?

Why are you taking away my fun by making me sit and watch while you enjoy playing god on the battlefield?

[TheSevered]

Mevanna wrote...

ShdwPlayer wrote...

It's fun to use and makes you feel powerful for those times when you just want that kind of game

And that is precisely the reason everyone likes it so much. What no one considers is that it makes you feel powerful at the cost of making everyone else feel useless.

I play the Javelin, for example, because I like the challenge of a difficult-to-aim, insane-damage weapon. But with the Krysae speed-killing everything en masse, you just feel like there's no more point to being an actual sniper.

Maybe on bronze... There's no shortage of things to shoot on silver and especially gold. Someone might aswell be doing some killing/damage when you're reloading and running to the ammo box, don't you think?

[AlienAtSystem]

TheSevered wrote...

Maybe on bronze... There's no shortage of things to shoot on silver and especially gold. Someone might aswell be doing some killing/damage when you're reloading and running to the ammo box, don't you think?

My Experience (LvL VI Krysae, LvL I Operative Package, LvL III Sniper Rifle Rail Amp, Quarian Male Infiltrator on Gold, Noveria, Geth) is that you a) run pretty quickly out of targets and only need to run to the ammo box once per wave max.

Modifié par AlienAtSystem, 01 juin 2012 - 04:43 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

ThirdChild ZKI wrote...

Ugh, I've said it before, regardless of whatever weapon you use, you NEED to aim. Sure you get splash damage, but pure logic dictates you'd deal more damage hitting something than grazing it, right?

Yes, there are players who would exploit splash damage, but let's see them NOT aim at a Banshee or Atlas and live to get the kill.

The weapon is fine. classes are fine. Some players simply know how to utilize both well, and some don't.

Oh come on, how hard is it to aim really?  Most enemies are big and fat, and if you're invisible hiding in a corner without being fired at, it's even easier to hit your target.

[WYLDMAXX]

I thought the objective of this game was to kill the enemy and get the credits?

Nerfing this gun won't accomplish this task.

[Scudman_Alpha]

 i prefer having an overpowered weapon than having overpowered enemies that cna instantly kill you from 10 feet away like the banshees

[ShdwPlayer]

Mevanna wrote...

ShdwPlayer wrote...

It's fun to use and makes you feel powerful for those times when you just want that kind of game

And that is precisely the reason everyone likes it so much. What no one considers is that it makes you feel powerful at the cost of making everyone else feel useless.

I play the Javelin, for example, because I like the challenge of a difficult-to-aim, insane-damage weapon. But with the Krysae speed-killing everything en masse, you just feel like there's no more point to being an actual sniper.

Okay I'm talking to two people now so let me address this first. The fact that you do feel this way in a coop game is just kinda silly (pardon the expression I know your feelings are legit). The Javelin is still a beast and in no way has your damage output changed from before. The only difference now is that a teammate who might be using the krysae is killing more things.

You are now arguing how the gun (Actually a teammate using that gun) is making you feel. Other people in other nerf threads have said it before in cases where the argument is like this - just mind yourself. Multiplayer is barely a competition as it is. Why play it like one and make yourself feel bad as if you were competing against other players - who "beat you"?

[Mevanna]

WYLDMAXX wrote...

I thought the objective of this game was to kill the enemy and get the credits?

Nerfing this gun won't accomplish this task.

Some people are actually playing it for fun, you know.

[ShdwPlayer]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

ShdwPlayer wrote...

It does and I agree with you. Still not really a reason to nerf a gun because it's AOE and could do that and still potentially take out 6 guys in one hit (an exagerration). The same idealized case could be made for the widow javelin and black widow.

In fact, could not. It would require six guys coming at you single-file.

So you think it is okay to have a gun that is as good as another gun against single enemies without the need to aim, and better against many enemies? Meaning, basically, in every possible situation better as the other gun while weighting less and having more spare ammo?

Was just trying to point out the absurdity of your example is all.

What are the shot counts to down an Atlas for a Javelin? 4-5? The krysae is nowhere near that - just as an example

[MarkVsColin]

Now some people are complaining about the new sniper rifle??   can't please some people!! whats next the sun the wrong colour?  just play the game and enjoy the free dlc

[AlienAtSystem]

ShdwPlayer wrote...


Okay I'm talking to two people now so let me address this first. The fact that you do feel this way in a coop game is just kinda silly (pardon the expression I know your feelings are legit). The Javelin is still a beast and in no way has your damage output changed from before. The only difference now is that a teammate who might be using the krysae is killing more things.

You are now arguing how the gun (Actually a teammate using that gun) is making you feel. Other people in other nerf threads have said it before in cases where the argument is like this - just mind yourself. Multiplayer is barely a competition as it is. Why play it like one and make yourself feel bad as if you were competing against other players - who "beat you"?

There are two holes in your argument that undermine it a bit:

a) It's difficult to "Mind myself" if the target I just scoped at explodes in a shower of ludicrous gibs. Every time. That may not be the reality, but that is how it feels.

And the other is the feeling of contribution. If I feel like being a fith wheel in a four-player game, I'm also not having fun.

[ShdwPlayer]

Mevanna wrote...

WYLDMAXX wrote...

I thought the objective of this game was to kill the enemy and get the credits?

Nerfing this gun won't accomplish this task.

Some people are actually playing it for fun, you know.

Mevanna this is exactly the point. The fun factor is important to consider as it's coop and we don't have to worry so much about "balance"

Nerfing it like they did the Falcon (no one really uses it anymore. I've had some luck with it on soldiers with cryo ammo and specialized setups, but I always feel like I could be using something else - like mowing things down with a turian revenant) will not add to the fun of the game

[TheSevered]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

My Experience (LvL VI Krysae, LvL I Operative Package, LvL III Sniper Rifle Rail Amp, Quarian Male Infiltrator on Gold, Noveria, Geth) is that you a) run pretty quickly out of targets and only need to run to the ammo box once per wave max.

I was refering to the Javilin user runing out of ammo.
Me:
Quarian infy spec for sniper damage using a Krysae X with incendiary III, Sniper amp II, sniper amp I (gear) on FBWGG only soften up targets on later wave and there was never a lack of things to shoot. I don't know how our notes can be so different. An AA outscored me big time.

[ShdwPlayer]

AlienAtSystem wrote...

ShdwPlayer wrote...


Okay I'm talking to two people now so let me address this first. The fact that you do feel this way in a coop game is just kinda silly (pardon the expression I know your feelings are legit). The Javelin is still a beast and in no way has your damage output changed from before. The only difference now is that a teammate who might be using the krysae is killing more things.

You are now arguing how the gun (Actually a teammate using that gun) is making you feel. Other people in other nerf threads have said it before in cases where the argument is like this - just mind yourself. Multiplayer is barely a competition as it is. Why play it like one and make yourself feel bad as if you were competing against other players - who "beat you"?

There are two holes in your argument that undermine it a bit:

a) It's difficult to "Mind myself" if the target I just scoped at explodes in a shower of ludicrous gibs. Every time. That may not be the reality, but that is how it feels.

And the other is the feeling of contribution. If I feel like being a fith wheel in a four-player game, I'm also not having fun.

 I was talking to mevanna. My reply to you is the other shorter one.

But anyways... So the solution is to possibly take away other players' fun? Like the falcon? (See above post)

Modifié par ShdwPlayer, 01 juin 2012 - 04:56 .

[AlienAtSystem]

ShdwPlayer wrote...

What are the shot counts to down an Atlas for a Javelin? 4-5? The krysae is nowhere near that - just as an example

Shot count, yes. Time count? Much more equal. And you have to consider that the player with the Javelin has afterwards to deal with the homies the Atlas brough along.

And just because you talk to my friend doesn't mean I can't contribute to that chain of arguments.

TheSevered wrote...

Me:
Quarian infy spec for sniper
damage using a Krysae X with incendiary III, Sniper amp II, sniper amp I
(gear) on FBWGG only soften up targets on later wave and there was
never a lack of things to shoot. I don't know how our notes can be so
different. An AA outscored me big time.

Probably Placement. I had the outer sniper position for my own.

Modifié par AlienAtSystem, 01 juin 2012 - 04:57 .

[ShdwPlayer]

Yup. I was just clarifying that I wasn't replying to your statements bro.

Edit

^ Exactly each gun is pretty different. With widows and Javelins you take out the superbosses and clean up. With the krysae it's the other way around. Splash damage isn't really all that great. I wish the mechanics could be clarified a bit, but air explosions deal less damage than a direct hit. The radius is tiny and the damage reduction significant.

Modifié par ShdwPlayer, 01 juin 2012 - 05:02 .