29 réponses à ce sujet

[laurencium]

I think I've found what IMO is the definitive Ex-Cerberus Vanguard build, would love to hear your comments and opinions on it. In short, it is a close-range, high-risk-high-reward, and melee-oriented type of character, with very little weapon use. It's incredibly fun, flashy, and effective even on Gold.


The principal ideas behind this build are
- Biotic charge as a defensive power
- Frequent, but careful, calculated use of Smash
- Utilization of cancelling and combos


Build: 6/6/3/5/6.
Biotic charge: Radius/Power Synergy/Barrier
Smash: Biotic Combo/Force & Damage/Impact Radius
Lash:
Phoenix Training: Damage & Capacity/Power Damage
Fitness: Melee Damage/Martial Artist/Power Synergy

Weapon: Disciple (200% CD at level X), or other light shotguns like Scimitar or Eviscerator (both 190% CD at level X).

Gear: Anything that increases effectiveness of powers or melee.

Main Combos: These are the bread and butter for this build; I will number them for easy reference.
(1) Smash -> Cancel into Heavy Melee
(2) Heavy Melee -> Smash
(3) Biotic Charge -> Shotgun -> Heavy Melee -> Smash



Strategy

The first important point is that, unlike his 'normal human' counterpart, biotic charge should not be used as a means of travel. Without Nova, the Phoenix vanguard does not have what it takes to rush enemies. Instead, stick with your team (you can spearhead). This will take some heat off of you, allowing you to get in close and attack. Only use charge (against low- or mid-tier enemies like Swamers, Husks, Cannibals, Marauders) to recover your shields, or to pick off lone enemies.

Using Smash
Smash is the primary means of dealing damage for this build. It is the most powerful biotic attack, and with Rank 6 spec'd for Impact Radius, it also has decent range. But to use Smash effectively, one must always keep in mind the following facts:
- Smash has a significant initial delay, with no invincibility frames
- Smash stuns enemies quite reliably (1057.50 N force)
- Smash can hit through walls
- You can change the direction you're facing (and move a tiny bit) during the delay

Smash can be used relatively safely, as long as you anticipate your targets' movements. Enemy stalking you from behind? Turn a corner and hit Smash through the wall. Banshee coming at you? Initiate Smash before she's here so that it lands just when she teleports right in front of you (then roll back and repeat). See a huge group of enemies? Gtfo and re-engage with your team. Being a short-ranged melee fighter does not mean the Phoenix vanguard should be right in the middle of large brawls. Instead thinking of gradually skimming off enemies from the outskirt, slowly working your way towards the middle.

In trying to hit your target, thinking mostly in terms of distance from you, and don't worry too much about aim. As long as the target is within 2.25m, cast Smash immediately and adjust your aim during the initial delay. Often I find it safer to run to be beside the enemy instead of in front of it, and only change direction after calling Smash. Also useful when your target tries to dodge your imminent strike.

Almost always, Smash should be followed by Heavy Melee (combo 1). Because Smash stuns, unless you have enemies sniping at you from a distance, you can usually get away with the Heavy Melee for free. In practice, the entire combo 1 should look like one smooth motion. With Fitness spec'd as above, the damage of the Heavy Melee is very respectable, and will easily get you many melee kills.

The reverse combo (2), Heavy Melee -> Smash is also very useful. The Heavy Melee initiate faster than Smash, hits a wide radius, and also stuns quite well. In general this is the go-to move after you've charged and are waiting for the cooldown.This is particularly useful as part of combo 3. Charging a fully protected mid-tier enemy (e.g. Marauder) won't kill them, but the charge will stun them. Now fire a round of shotgun, followed by a Heavy Melee to stun again (you won't stun if the Heavy Melee follows the charge immediately, as the enemy is still in the previous stunned animation). By this time the power cooldown should be finished, allowing you to finish with Smash.

Lash?
I have elected to largely skip Lash for this build (just 3 points, because Rank 6 of Phoenix Training is rather useless). I found it to be too slow for the pace of this fighter, and that it simply doesn't have much synergy with the rest of the powers. Unless it happens to throw the enemy off the map and outright kill them, chasing the guy down and killing them is just way too inefficient. It's also not that impressive as a disruptive force, as it's single-target. Against Phantoms maybe, but I never build my characters to do well only against one faction.

For those with Wraith X, I would even suggest dropping Lash entirely and get the Pistols & Shotguns weight reduction instead. This will net a 195% cooldown, and makes Wraith a very nice companion to this build.

[laurencium]

Jumpin's gameplay here demonstrates how to use Smash offensively:

But he's using an Adept. With a vanguard, you can get a lot more survivability to back up your Smash and Heavy Melee.

Modifié par laurencium, 01 juin 2012 - 09:46 .

[Silasqtx]

Oh look my spec. Except that I've got the 75% bonus on Barriers and Armor which is totally better imo. Stripping Phantom's Barrier and setting them up for a BE with one hit.

Got to wave6 soloing gold then died raped by two phantoms during the second pizza delivery. Shame.

Btw I'm using the Reegar shotgun. It seems awkward at first but then you get used to the 0.30 increase on cooldowns.

For an alternative combo, have a look at my own rotation 
 

Modifié par Silasqtx, 01 juin 2012 - 09:54 .

[SilentCO1]

Skip Smash with Vanguard, you can create biotic explosions with Lash and Charge, plus Charge is just better since you gain health while doing it. And use the Reegar.

[laurencium]

SilentCO1 wrote...

Skip Smash with Vanguard, you can create biotic explosions with Lash and Charge, plus Charge is just better since you gain health while doing it. And use the Reegar.

Lash just isn't efficient on Gold, you're only taking out unarmored enemies. Husks, Cannibals, Marauders tier, not the big stuff. These mobs can be easily and more quickly killed (often in groups) with Smash -> Heavy Melee anyway. Cool if you're fighting Cerberus Phantoms, but IMO a good build has to be great against all factions. Lash makes more sense on the Adept imo. 

Charge is fully spec'd in the build, and is an integral part of it.

I personally don't like the Reegar on the Cerberus vanguard. If I want to use the Reegar I might as well use a character that synergizes better with it (i.e., Vorcha). When I'm using a biotic character, I want to use my powers as often as possibe.

[laurencium]

Quick bump for discussion.

[Killahead]

Are you sure the melee evolutions from fitness works? I haven't tested melee myself, but I'm now pretty sure the health/shield options do nothing.

[zhk3r]

I wouldn't go into Fitness at all with either of them. Seems bugged.

[laurencium]

Can others confirm this? That Fitness is bugged and doesn't work?

[Elecbender]

Hmm...

On Silver I could OHK Assault Troopers with the heavy melee with a melee amp II. Ex-cerberus heavy melee does base 350 DMG so I was at least doing 1125 DMG.

I definitely noticed the extra damage from fitness evolution 5 when using it on enemies.

Modifié par Elecbender, 02 juin 2012 - 06:21 .

[Exodus2000]

What....No shield pull?No thanks.

[laurencium]

Exodus2000 wrote...

What....No shield pull?No thanks.

Save that for the adept. Vanguard is for fast-paced close range battle. Lash is too slow and inefficient.

[Javo2357]

laurencium wrote...

Exodus2000 wrote...

What....No shield pull?No thanks.

Save that for the adept. Vanguard is for fast-paced close range battle. Lash is too slow and inefficient.

Hmm..nice build except I also agree that the shield/barrier penetrating lash is the best that this class has to offer.

I personally went 6/6/6/5/3 and I found lash to be very effective with a CD of 200% since you can spam it every 2 sec.

[mybudgee]

I suspect fitness is bugged, to the point that I re-specced my phoenix, but I am by no means testing it...

[Javo2357]

mybudgee wrote...

I suspect fitness is bugged, to the point that I re-specced my phoenix, but I am by no means testing it...

Really? How much did you initially invest in it? I personally only went up to 3 evos on Fitness since the small increase of shields and health on a human doesn't make a huge difference on Gold

[MEgaBUD7]

More to add to the list of bugged skill...

[Ryuji2]

Fitness is indeed bugged for both Adept and Vanguard.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12360008/1

Modifié par Ryuji2, 02 juin 2012 - 06:59 .

[AndanteInBlue]

Cool info! I'm running a very similar build before coming across this guide. Only differences are no Martial Artist, Electrical Damage and Barrier/Armor Damage instead of Extra Radius. MA is probably a better choice. I'm running Extra Radius on the Adept, and I do _like_ it better, though I'm not sure about the effectiveness. I do think Electrical Damage is a superior choice though. I think the ability will still set off BEs, though it sets up for a TE. But really, you're comparing between 50% extra damage for 7.5s, versus another 30% base damage on Smash. Since you're likely to smash again in the next 7.5s, I'm giving the edge to Electrical Damage.

[Javo2357]

Ryuji2 wrote...

Fitness is indeed bugged for both Adept and Vanguard.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12360008/1

wow.....if this is indeed true..wtf lol good thing i didnt put any points into it

[Ryuji2]

Javo2357 wrote...

wow.....if this is indeed true..wtf lol good thing i didnt put any points into it

Yeah...I too tried it. Both with and without fitness(used Shield III with fitness to double check). No change. Still lost all my shields on a single geth rocket on gold and was killed insanely fast from pretty much anything, faster than a Drell I would argue.

Modifié par Ryuji2, 02 juin 2012 - 07:21 .

[Trakarg]

So this is why my vanguard and adept felt so squishy.

[Elecbender]

After additional testing:

The melee portion ISN'T bugged. I used a respec card to have no points in fitness and my melee was doing significantly less.

For example: With full melee bonuses and melee amp II and the temporary +75% melee DMG I could OHK an Assault Trooper with the Heavy Melee on Silver.
With no fitness and a melee amp II it took 3 Heavy Melee hits to kill the Assault Trooper on Silver.

[Amano Kazumi]

I've come up with almost the very same build (especially after reading about Fitness being bugged), except for +75% damage on rank 6 of Smash instead of the range upgrade. I figure I can at least occasionally overcome the 1.5 meter limitation with careful maneuvering and selective timing, but I can't make up for the +75% damage with skill. I'm still debating Smash's rank 4, Biotic Combo or Electrical Damage.

Biotic Combo probably does more damage upon detonation, and does more damage immediately (which can be a life saver). Electrical Damage has a larger Tech Burst radius, does more damage over time, and most importantly, basically every class can detonate it for you, unlike BEs. Theoretically, Electrical Damage is the smarter choice all around unless the BE is that much stronger, but I don't really think it is; testing needs to be done.

[laurencium]

Elecbender wrote...

After additional testing:

The melee portion ISN'T bugged. I used a respec card to have no points in fitness and my melee was doing significantly less.

For example: With full melee bonuses and melee amp II and the temporary +75% melee DMG I could OHK an Assault Trooper with the Heavy Melee on Silver.
With no fitness and a melee amp II it took 3 Heavy Melee hits to kill the Assault Trooper on Silver.

Wow. What about the basic health and shields bonus of Rank 1 & 2 Fitness? Are those bugged as well? My health and shield stats do go up, but I guess that could be bugged and not showing the real (lack of) effect either.

More reason to go for melee in Fitness I guess? Not for the right reason though...

[laurencium]

Yea I can respect the choice for more damage for Smash Rank 6 (after all, 75% is huge), and Rank 4 certainly is a tough one. Choosing Biotic Combo is the only way you can self detonate a biotic explosion against armored enemies though. Often when I mess up Smashing a Brute or something and get hit, I would switch to doing a Biotic Charge instead and the resulting biotic explosion adds a very nice bonus damage, often killing the target or at least mobs around it. But I really like the electrical effect too; it's just a really tough choice here.