311 réponses à ce sujet

[bEVEsthda]

Cimeas wrote...
But the stories in TES are so boring.  So many quests are just 'kill that' or 'fetch this', even the main storyline has terrible voice acting and a lame plot.   Sure you can 'imagine' motivations etc.. to make the story more interesting, but that's lazy writing and shoddy game design. 

I disagree wholeheartedly about 'stories' in TES being boring. Not at all. It must be something about how you play these games? Certainly, the 'boring' comment seem quite ridiculous in context of DA2 or ME. TES and FO3 do eat up a lot of time. Progress is slow and needs painstaking work and preparations. A lot of time "between explosions" . But I do not find them boring at all

Lame plots? You gotta be kidding. Have you even played Morrowind or Skyrim? They're very sketchy. But lame?

The voice acting is not "terrible". It's quite acceptable and functional. Mind you, I find the notion to play RPGs to 'enjoy' voice acting as very alien, almost repulsive. I would never do that.

That motives emerge from my character itself, is absolutely NOT lazy writing or shoddy game design. Again it's the absolutely contrary. If the game defines my character's motives, thoughts or feelings about things, then it's a total F*up as cRPG. This is why c/wRPG and jRPG are two different genres, rather than small, subtle differences. I have no interest in playing games like DA2 or FF. I'd rather play CoD, Max Payne or 4X games.

But I'm certainly not happy about that TES has to replace  our old type of Bioware games, like DA:O was. like the franchise DA looked like it could become. There was special magic in the BW's old storydriven, party-RPGs. And you could look forward to an end, like, a conclusion, 125-200 hours away, unlike years and 2000.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:07 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Somethign TES does which I do think BioWare should absolutely copy is how combat encounters exist before the player finds them, and the player can approach them from any available angle and engage them however he sees fit. If there's a tower guarded by bandits, he can storm the tower and fight the bandits, or he can snipe at the bandits from the top of an adjacent mountain.

BioWare has moved much too far in the direction of forcing the player to engage each encounter in some pre-defined way. BioWare should stop trying to produce a specific gameplay experience, and instead give us a specific world to experience as we see fit. Their worlds won't resemble Bethesda's worlds (they'll likely be much smaller, and have a more tightly plotted story going on in the background), but I want them not to force every player to experience the game in the same way.

[bEVEsthda]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Somethign TES does which I do think BioWare should absolutely copy is how combat encounters exist before the player finds them, and the player can approach them from any available angle and engage them however he sees fit. If there's a tower guarded by bandits, he can storm the tower and fight the bandits, or he can snipe at the bandits from the top of an adjacent mountain.

BioWare has moved much too far in the direction of forcing the player to engage each encounter in some pre-defined way.

Not to mention that you can also quietly sneak your way around, not to fight at all. Or retreat to find someone to hire, to help. Or turn back, to go somewhere else.


You could do stuff like that in old BG (1) too.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 16 juillet 2012 - 09:25 .

[Mistress9Nine]

You guys have it all wrong! Clearly what we need is a Jade Empire-esque traveling minigame, where we have to fight space invader darkspawn to progress into new ares!

[Sylvius the Mad]

bEVEsthda wrote...

You could do stuff like that in old BG (1) too.

BioWare's best game.

[Everwarden]

Plaintiff wrote...
Because Skyrim doesn't re-use design elements at all?

It doesn't recycle the same cave and warehouse over and over, no. Suggesting that Skyrim is comparable to DA2 in recycled environments is outright insane.

To answer the main question posited at the beginning of the thread, I like sandbox style exploration in concept, but the reality is that, when implemented, it's a tradeoff between an expansive world, or decent story and characters.

I disagree. Fallout: New Vegas.

If only Bethesda hired writers instead of coke-addled chimps to handle their characters and story. 

[deuce985]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Somethign TES does which I do think BioWare should absolutely copy is how combat encounters exist before the player finds them, and the player can approach them from any available angle and engage them however he sees fit. If there's a tower guarded by bandits, he can storm the tower and fight the bandits, or he can snipe at the bandits from the top of an adjacent mountain.

BioWare has moved much too far in the direction of forcing the player to engage each encounter in some pre-defined way. BioWare should stop trying to produce a specific gameplay experience, and instead give us a specific world to experience as we see fit. Their worlds won't resemble Bethesda's worlds (they'll likely be much smaller, and have a more tightly plotted story going on in the background), but I want them not to force every player to experience the game in the same way.

I agree with this 100%.

It's also in my own belief why(among many other reasons) TES is such a popular franchise. The further Bioware moves away from player agency, the worse their games will get. TES is all about player agency in virtually every mechanic of their games. Bioware needs to bite the bullet and open their games up more. Well, at least from a player choice perspective. I'd never expect them to open their games up like Skyrim and keep the same type of character development/story they have now. If they ever did do this...talking about a potential masterpiece and a very challenging task ahead.

[ajbry]

Perhaps this will be the last time I need to clarify the original purpose of this thread: it is not to suggest that DA3 play like an Elder Scrolls title. I don't want sandbox-style exploration in Dragon Age.

Allowing characters to travel through outdoor areas, with a focused purpose, is the goal. Not simply placing them in a vast, open outdoor area. With reference to DA3, it simply means an intermediate step that happens to take place outside and not simply through a loading screen or in Urban Area #24B.

[AkiKishi]

Mistress9Nine wrote...

You guys have it all wrong! Clearly what we need is a Jade Empire-esque traveling minigame, where we have to fight space invader darkspawn to progress into new ares!

As out of place as that was it was still kind of fun.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Somethign TES does which I do think BioWare should absolutely copy is how combat encounters exist before the player finds them, and the player can approach them from any available angle and engage them however he sees fit. If there's a tower guarded by bandits, he can storm the tower and fight the bandits, or he can snipe at the bandits from the top of an adjacent mountain.

BioWare has moved much too far in the direction of forcing the player to engage each encounter in some pre-defined way. BioWare should stop trying to produce a specific gameplay experience, and instead give us a specific world to experience as we see fit. Their worlds won't resemble Bethesda's worlds (they'll likely be much smaller, and have a more tightly plotted story going on in the background), but I want them not to force every player to experience the game in the same way.

QFT.

[Maclimes]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Somethign TES does which I do think BioWare should absolutely copy is how combat encounters exist before the player finds them, and the player can approach them from any available angle and engage them however he sees fit. If there's a tower guarded by bandits, he can storm the tower and fight the bandits, or he can snipe at the bandits from the top of an adjacent mountain.

BioWare has moved much too far in the direction of forcing the player to engage each encounter in some pre-defined way. BioWare should stop trying to produce a specific gameplay experience, and instead give us a specific world to experience as we see fit. Their worlds won't resemble Bethesda's worlds (they'll likely be much smaller, and have a more tightly plotted story going on in the background), but I want them not to force every player to experience the game in the same way.

I love this. The "wave" concept in DA2 was proof of what your are saying.