328 réponses à ce sujet

[Erield]

dreman9999 wrote...
Before we move on there is one thing I like to point out from ME:retribution....

The Reapers hit the eject button on the airlock, jettisoning the bodies into the cold vacuum of space.Then they plotted a new course—too quickly for Grayson to catch the final destination—and made thejump to light speed again. Finally, despite his heroic struggle to oppose their will, the Reapers closed hiseyes and made him fall asleep.
(Page 72). 

What happens when Hackett called Shepard?
If your mind is infected with a being that can warp your perspective.....Why would you think it odd that it's warping your perspective to not notice your own perpective warping?

1.  I haven't read the novels.  I don't plan on reading the novels.  If I am required to read novels in order to understand the ultimate premise/concept of the climax of the trilogy of games I have played, then the writers/developers have failed.  It does not matter how super-awesome the concept may be--it is still failure.

2.  I give up.  What happened when Hackett called Shepard?

3.  You say perspective.  Do you mean emotional/logical?  As in, "I used to hate Reapers, but now I love them!"  Or visual, as in, "I can see clearly now, the oily shadows at the edge of my vision are gone!" 

4.  If the infection happens at the end of the game, then why is Shepard hallucinating at the beginning?  Why are there no other hallucinations that ever happen when he is awake?  If they were so powerful and strong, wouldn't they have included more hallucinations along the way?  He kills four Reapers in the game between Tuchanka and Harbinger.  Why didn't any of them cause Shepard to hallucinate that the Reaper was actually, oh, 100 feet to the left?  Wouldn't that have been more useful than dying like a ****?

5.  Your argument is that the kid from the beginning is never there.  The excerpt from Retribution shows the Reapers having actual control over Grayson, and making him fall asleep.  Why didn't they do this with Shepard?  Wouldn't it have been better for them to make him fall asleep, and then be easily killed, instead of seeing some kid die?

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

squee365 wrote...

Whats the purpose of the dreams IF the IT is false?
Shallow guilt trips for shepard?

Yes.

Stress and survivors guilt. It's contrived and forced but it's part of the narrative that tries to show how Shepard is being affected by the war.

Do you understand that indocrtination first attacks and controls the limbic system, the part of the brain pdst comes from?

Y'know something else that causes ptsd? STRESS.

Good God stop throwing round the limbic system like any moment that involves it is automatic indoc.

Ok then...Where was this ptsd when...

Shepard lost Kadien or Ashley in ME1?
When Shepard died?
As a sole servivor?
As a Colonist?
After losing people on the suicide mission?
After watching people turn to goo?
After killing off 300,00 BARTARIANS?
,,,,
And the most important question...
How come Shepard has these dreams right after dealing with reapers who has indocrtination abilities that attack the limbic system?

He's been around reaper tech on and off for 3 years according to you, where were his indoctrination dreams and hallucinations in ME1 & 2?

Also, no guarantee you lost people in ME2, not everyone killed those Batarians, the Collector base PTSD story was mainly told via Kelly following the abduction.

Kaidan and Ash are largely ignored in ME2 when they survived let alone when they were dead... Bioware probably hadn't even properly thought about the dreams or that story arc at that point in time.

First dream  after palvin's moom which had a reaper
Second, after tuchancka's last mission...Which has a reaper.
third. After rennoch's last mission...Which had a reaper.
fourth, after sactuary which is filled with reaper tech....
[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

That moon involved a view of the Turian homeworld burning.
That mission involved Mordin dieing and sometimes betraying the Krogan.
That mission potentially involved the extinction of an entire species as well as the deaths of Legion and Tali.
Sanctuary was full of logs about people being experimented on and dying horribly, Miranda can also die in this mission.


All those missions can cause stress, they are also the key missions so the dreams also probably happen after them for pacing purposes.

Modifié par jijeebo, 02 juin 2012 - 01:57 .

[dreman9999]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
*snup*

In sacturay we learn that they learn how to control husks. Husks are full of Reaper tech Shepard and Anderson are reaper tech free. Indotrination controls the mind any way and TIM clearly has not influence over that.

In fact according to the game script TIM is using the power of his mojo to control them. =]

1, Shepard and Anderson has been with constact contact with reaper and reaper tech through ou me3.....Added the 3  years of on and off contact with Repae tech with Shepard.

2.
[smilie]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VKtNUVTFNis/T6vmq-53CdI/AAAAAAAACBk/SXBTmIJRfeQ/s640/indoc.png[/smilie]

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

squee365 wrote...

Whats the purpose of the dreams IF the IT is false?
Shallow guilt trips for shepard?

Yes.

Stress and survivors guilt. It's contrived and forced but it's part of the narrative that tries to show how Shepard is being affected by the war.

Do you understand that indocrtination first attacks and controls the limbic system, the part of the brain pdst comes from?

Y'know something else that causes ptsd? STRESS.

Good God stop throwing round the limbic system like any moment that involves it is automatic indoc.

Ok then...Where was this ptsd when...

Shepard lost Kadien or Ashley in ME1?
When Shepard died?
As a sole servivor?
As a Colonist?
After losing people on the suicide mission?
After watching people turn to goo?
After killing off 300,00 BARTARIANS?
,,,,
And the most important question...
How come Shepard has these dreams right after dealing with reapers who has indocrtination abilities that attack the limbic system?

He's been around reaper tech on and off for 3 years according to you, where were his indoctrination dreams and hallucinations in ME1 & 2?

Also, no guarantee you lost people in ME2, not everyone killed those Batarians, the Collector base PTSD story was mainly told via Kelly following the abduction.

Kaidan and Ash are largely ignored in ME2 when they survived let alone when they were dead... Bioware probably hadn't even properly thought about the dreams or that story arc at that point in time.

1. Indoctintion  is sublte and can work slowly. It's clear Shepard wasnot in an advance stage yet.
2.That doesn't stop Shepard form having those PSDT dreams about liquified people.
3. And yet we have dreams in ME3 with them crying out in his dreams.

And you don't see that it's odd the dreams come up after your face the reapers and their forces who can all indoctrinate?

[dreman9999]

Erield wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Before we move on there is one thing I like to point out from ME:retribution....

The Reapers hit the eject button on the airlock, jettisoning the bodies into the cold vacuum of space.Then they plotted a new course—too quickly for Grayson to catch the final destination—and made thejump to light speed again. Finally, despite his heroic struggle to oppose their will, the Reapers closed hiseyes and made him fall asleep.
(Page 72). 

What happens when Hackett called Shepard?
If your mind is infected with a being that can warp your perspective.....Why would you think it odd that it's warping your perspective to not notice your own perpective warping?

1.  I haven't read the novels.  I don't plan on reading the novels.  If I am required to read novels in order to understand the ultimate premise/concept of the climax of the trilogy of games I have played, then the writers/developers have failed.  It does not matter how super-awesome the concept may be--it is still failure.

2.  I give up.  What happened when Hackett called Shepard?

Plese use some deductive logic here. It's obvious what my point is here...We both seen that scene at the end of the game after Hackett call Shepard. Don't play dumb.
And you don't ned the novels to understand what's going on...Just use the lore of the games.

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

squee365 wrote...

Whats the purpose of the dreams IF the IT is false?
Shallow guilt trips for shepard?

Yes.

Stress and survivors guilt. It's contrived and forced but it's part of the narrative that tries to show how Shepard is being affected by the war.

Do you understand that indocrtination first attacks and controls the limbic system, the part of the brain pdst comes from?

Y'know something else that causes ptsd? STRESS.

Good God stop throwing round the limbic system like any moment that involves it is automatic indoc.

Ok then...Where was this ptsd when...

Shepard lost Kadien or Ashley in ME1?
When Shepard died?
As a sole servivor?
As a Colonist?
After losing people on the suicide mission?
After watching people turn to goo?
After killing off 300,00 BARTARIANS?
,,,,
And the most important question...
How come Shepard has these dreams right after dealing with reapers who has indocrtination abilities that attack the limbic system?

He's been around reaper tech on and off for 3 years according to you, where were his indoctrination dreams and hallucinations in ME1 & 2?

Also, no guarantee you lost people in ME2, not everyone killed those Batarians, the Collector base PTSD story was mainly told via Kelly following the abduction.

Kaidan and Ash are largely ignored in ME2 when they survived let alone when they were dead... Bioware probably hadn't even properly thought about the dreams or that story arc at that point in time.

First dream  after palvin's moom which had a reaper
Second, after tuchancka's last mission...Which has a reaper.
third. After rennoch's last mission...Which had a reaper.
fourth, after sactuary which is filled with reaper tech....
[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

That moon involved a view of the Turian homeworld burning.
That mission involved Mordin dieing and sometimes betraying the Krogan.
That mission potentially involved the extinction of an entire species as well as the deaths of Legion and Tali.
Sanctuary was full of logs about people being experimented on and dying horribly, Miranda can also die in this mission.


All those missions can cause stress, they are also the key missions so the dreams also probably happen after them for pacing purposes.

1. But where was this dream after the fall of thessia?
2. Where was this dream after thane die?
3. The geth and the quarian and Tali lived in my game....Why did I get a ptsd dream?And if it's about legion....Go to my second point.
4.Is that a guarentee that it would effect Shepard? What if you played a Shepard that though something like that was nessary?

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...



He's been around reaper tech on and off for 3 years according to you, where were his indoctrination dreams and hallucinations in ME1 & 2?

Also, no guarantee you lost people in ME2, not everyone killed those Batarians, the Collector base PTSD story was mainly told via Kelly following the abduction.

Kaidan and Ash are largely ignored in ME2 when they survived let alone when they were dead... Bioware probably hadn't even properly thought about the dreams or that story arc at that point in time.

1. Indoctintion  is sublte and can work slowly. It's clear Shepard wasnot in an advance stage yet.
2.That doesn't stop Shepard form having those PSDT dreams about liquified people.
3. And yet we have dreams in ME3 with them crying out in his dreams.

And you don't see that it's odd the dreams come up after your face the reapers and their forces who can all indoctrinate?

1. Yet between ME2 and ME3 he started hallucinating so clearly he starts talking to figments of his imagination despite being in lockdown?

2. Like I said, that story is told through Kelly. Also the game ends after the suicide mission, when was Shepard going to have these dreams? Randomly when you're clearing up missions you missed? What would people who stopped after the credits do?


No, they begin in ME3 after Shepard watches a child die and his home planet get devastated in a matter of moments. That's why the dreams are introduced, to show the scale of the battle and that it's beginning to take a toll on Shepard.


But this is completely off-topic so I'll go back to my question you're oh-so-fond of ignoring.


Do you have any proof that the child on Earth is not real?

Modifié par jijeebo, 02 juin 2012 - 02:06 .

[Erield]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Indoctintion  is sublte and can work slowly. It's clear Shepard wasnot in an advance stage yet.
2.That doesn't stop Shepard form having those PSDT dreams about liquified people.
3. And yet we have dreams in ME3 with them crying out in his dreams.

And you don't see that it's odd the dreams come up after your face the reapers and their forces who can all indoctrinate?

1.  If IT was intended by Bioware all along (as in, from ME1, or maybe ME2), and IT is just following through with the basic plot/story of the trilogy, then why didn't we see any dreams before?  Three years, man...that's a long time to go without having a single Reaper-induced dream, and then suddenly getting them every other night.

2 & 3.  Everyone has a breaking point.  Everyone.  Each person is fundamentally different.  There was a thread on the forums that had vets talking about their real-life, real-war experiences.  You don't know when, where, or how it'll hit you.  One guy was saying that it took nearly a year.  A YEAR.  for the events to catch up with him.  He wasn't even doing anything special or different at the time, just all of a sudden, BAM.  Wanna know what the trigger/breaking point was for Shepard?  Seeing the kid that he tried to save die.  Seeing Earth burn.  Seeing Reapers everywhere.  NOT seeing any hope; the galaxy is unprepared and defenseless.

[Tom Lehrer]

dreman9999 wrote...

*snip*

By your logic everyone on Earth, Palaven, Thessia, and every other world would be indoctrinated so how are we still fighting? Why is there a war at all if evenone is under Reaper mind control?

You still fail to adress the fact that TIM only has very VERY limited control over their bodies and indoctrination is MIND control but TIM has no control over that.

EDIT: The game file screen cap has just been posted. 5$ says the glowing eyes pic gets posted next

Modifié par Tom Lehrer, 02 juin 2012 - 02:11 .

[CuseGirl]

Makrys wrote...

If the IT is true, it could be presumed that the child was real until he ran into that room and was insta-fried. Then, since he was killed by the Reapers, becomes a hallucination in Shepard's mind. Otherwise, there is no way he could have survived that, much less completely unharmed as we see him. Nevertheless, you'll get tons of 'laziness' and 'artistic integrity' posts because people can't explain it. Outside of the IT, it can't be explained why he survived. Other than just Bioware screwing up once again because apparently they're all bumbling idiots.

Am I the only person who never saw that child running on the roof until someone made a Youtube video to point it out? I have a hard time using that in support of the IT when it's such an obscure event in the game.

[dreman9999]

X

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 juin 2012 - 02:30 .

[dreman9999]

Erield wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Indoctintion  is sublte and can work slowly. It's clear Shepard wasnot in an advance stage yet.
2.That doesn't stop Shepard form having those PSDT dreams about liquified people.
3. And yet we have dreams in ME3 with them crying out in his dreams.

And you don't see that it's odd the dreams come up after your face the reapers and their forces who can all indoctrinate?

1.  If IT was intended by Bioware all along (as in, from ME1, or maybe ME2), and IT is just following through with the basic plot/story of the trilogy, then why didn't we see any dreams before?  Three years, man...that's a long time to go without having a single Reaper-induced dream, and then suddenly getting them every other night.

2 & 3.  Everyone has a breaking point.  Everyone.  Each person is fundamentally different.  There was a thread on the forums that had vets talking about their real-life, real-war experiences.  You don't know when, where, or how it'll hit you.  One guy was saying that it took nearly a year.  A YEAR.  for the events to catch up with him.  He wasn't even doing anything special or different at the time, just all of a sudden, BAM.  Wanna know what the trigger/breaking point was for Shepard?  Seeing the kid that he tried to save die.  Seeing Earth burn.  Seeing Reapers everywhere.  NOT seeing any hope; the galaxy is unprepared and defenseless.

1. As  said before, indoctriantion is sublte.. It takes time to do. Shepard was not in a level of being control. The plot of ME1 and 2 use indoctriantion in away to explaint he reals and syntoms of it.
2.Exactly, why is everyone's SHepard have the same braking point? Each players Shepard is differnt from the other. He is a character who persona and  ego is control the player...We are Shepard basicly.  Why do all our Separd have the same breaking point just as the reapers invade. Why do the dreams come up everythime we face reapers and reaper tech that used indoctrination the attack the limbic system, which controls dreams and ptsd?

[dreman9999]

Tom Lehrer wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

*snip*

By your logic everyone on Earth, Palaven, Thessia, and every other world would be indoctrinated so how are we still fighting? Why is there a war at all if evenone is under Reaper mind control?

You still fail to adress the fact that TIM only has very VERY limited control over their bodies and indoctrination is MIND control but TIM has no control over that.

EDIT: The game file screen cap has just been posted. 5$ says the glowing eyes pic gets posted next

1.
Indoctriantion can be resisted and TIM is giving off a high ammount of incotrination wave at that scene. Add reapers use alot of energy to send out hatlevel of control. It leaves them vunerable.

2.*Sigh....
http://masseffect.wi...#Indoctrination 

Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods.  

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...



He's been around reaper tech on and off for 3 years according to you, where were his indoctrination dreams and hallucinations in ME1 & 2?

Also, no guarantee you lost people in ME2, not everyone killed those Batarians, the Collector base PTSD story was mainly told via Kelly following the abduction.

Kaidan and Ash are largely ignored in ME2 when they survived let alone when they were dead... Bioware probably hadn't even properly thought about the dreams or that story arc at that point in time.

1. Indoctintion  is sublte and can work slowly. It's clear Shepard wasnot in an advance stage yet.
2.That doesn't stop Shepard form having those PSDT dreams about liquified people.
3. And yet we have dreams in ME3 with them crying out in his dreams.

And you don't see that it's odd the dreams come up after your face the reapers and their forces who can all indoctrinate?

1. Yet between ME2 and ME3 he started hallucinating so clearly he starts talking to figments of his imagination despite being in lockdown?

2. Like I said, that story is told through Kelly. Also the game ends after the suicide mission, when was Shepard going to have these dreams? Randomly when you're clearing up missions you missed? What would people who stopped after the credits do?


No, they begin in ME3 after Shepard watches a child die and his home planet get devastated in a matter of moments. That's why the dreams are introduced, to show the scale of the battle and that it's beginning to take a toll on Shepard.


But this is completely off-topic so I'll go back to my question you're oh-so-fond of ignoring.


Do you have any proof that the child on Earth is not real?

1. The hallucinations started once the reaper landed on earth. The same reapers that can effect the limbic system with indoctriantion.....
2.Did you miss the part where you can keep playing the game and talke to people? That means they can't have after game content?

3. Again, when were Shepard ptsd dreams in ME1 and ME2 AND WHY DO THEY ALWAYS HAPPEN AFTER SHEPARD FACES  REAPERS AND REAPER FORCES?

[111987]

Have people here really not noticed by now that dreman9999 refuses to even consider other people's arguments and perspectives regarding IT, and that he rehashes the same arguments in basically every post? Along with posting only semi-relevant links to videos and Codex entries...

To the OP: I think it's a pretty easy explanation that the kid was deep in the vent when the explosion rocked the room, explaining how the kid survived. The kid was definitely real on Earth. I think Anderson would have made a bigger deal out of Shepard kneeling down and talking to himself for a minute if Anderson didn't hear the conversation.

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...



1. Yet between ME2 and ME3 he started hallucinating so clearly he starts talking to figments of his imagination despite being in lockdown?

2. Like I said, that story is told through Kelly. Also the game ends after the suicide mission, when was Shepard going to have these dreams? Randomly when you're clearing up missions you missed? What would people who stopped after the credits do?


No, they begin in ME3 after Shepard watches a child die and his home planet get devastated in a matter of moments. That's why the dreams are introduced, to show the scale of the battle and that it's beginning to take a toll on Shepard.


But this is completely off-topic so I'll go back to my question you're oh-so-fond of ignoring.


Do you have any proof that the child on Earth is not real?

1. The hallucinations started once the reaper landed on earth. The same reapers that can effect the limbic system with indoctriantion.....
2.Did you miss the part where you can keep playing the game and talke to people? That means they can't have after game content?

3. Again, when were Shepard ptsd dreams in ME1 and ME2 AND WHY DO THEY ALWAYS HAPPEN AFTER SHEPARD FACES  REAPERS AND REAPER FORCES?

1. Hurr durr Shepard watches the kid out of his window before the reapers are even there so you fail.

2. Did you miss the part where the credits rolled and the game ended? You can't go sticking crucial plot developments outside of the mandatory parts of the game.

3. I've been over this, Bioware hadn't thought of them yet. Why wasn't the omni-blade in ME1 and ME2? Why weren't cannibals or marauders or banshees in ME1 or ME2? Why wasn't Vega in ME1 or ME2? Why was Udinas hair not brown in ME1 and ME2? Where were sub-machine guns in ME1? Where were thermal clips in ME1? Where was TIM in ME1? Where were the drell in ME1? They didn't have the entire trilogy penned out when they started making ME1.


And yay, you ignored my question again...


Do you have any proof that the child on Earth isn't real?

[Erield]

dreman9999 wrote...

Erield wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Indoctintion  is sublte and can work slowly. It's clear Shepard wasnot in an advance stage yet.
2.That doesn't stop Shepard form having those PSDT dreams about liquified people.
3. And yet we have dreams in ME3 with them crying out in his dreams.

And you don't see that it's odd the dreams come up after your face the reapers and their forces who can all indoctrinate?

1.  If IT was intended by Bioware all along (as in, from ME1, or maybe ME2), and IT is just following through with the basic plot/story of the trilogy, then why didn't we see any dreams before?  Three years, man...that's a long time to go without having a single Reaper-induced dream, and then suddenly getting them every other night.

2 & 3.  Everyone has a breaking point.  Everyone.  Each person is fundamentally different.  There was a thread on the forums that had vets talking about their real-life, real-war experiences.  You don't know when, where, or how it'll hit you.  One guy was saying that it took nearly a year.  A YEAR.  for the events to catch up with him.  He wasn't even doing anything special or different at the time, just all of a sudden, BAM.  Wanna know what the trigger/breaking point was for Shepard?  Seeing the kid that he tried to save die.  Seeing Earth burn.  Seeing Reapers everywhere.  NOT seeing any hope; the galaxy is unprepared and defenseless.

1. As  said before, indoctriantion is sublte.. It takes time to do. Shepard was not in a level of being control. The plot of ME1 and 2 use indoctriantion in away to explaint he reals and syntoms of it.
2.Exactly, why is everyone's SHepard have the same braking point? Each players Shepard is differnt from the other. He is a character who persona and  ego is control the player...We are Shepard basicly.  Why do all our Separd have the same breaking point just as the reapers invade. Why do the dreams come up everythime we face reapers and reaper tech that used indoctrination the attack the limbic system, which controls dreams and ptsd?

1.  So, it takes 3 years to get to the point that Shepard has waking hallucinations but no dreams, and 3 years 1 day to get hallucinations plus dreams?  Why did Shepard never suffer another waking hallucination if this is an ability of theirs?

2.  a) /sigh.  Why does every Shepard resist Indoctrination for the exact same amount of time?  Specious argument is specious. 
      The first dream happens before Palaven.  I can't recall off-hand if it's just before or just after Mars.  There's only three dreams total, not four.  Each time that there's a Reaper present, there's also the fate of an entire species at stake.  There's a funny thing about stress--it's bad for sleeping well.  How well did you sleep the last time you almost died?  How well did you sleep the last time you almost failed, and thus doomed all life in the galaxy to extinction?
      c) The Asari commando in the hospital on the Citadel is suffering from PTSD, not Indoctrination.  She was alone, fighting against overwhelming odds, surviving on a planet over-run by Reapers.  Why was she not Indoctrinated or suffering symptoms of Indoctrination, just PTSD?  Or is every single person who suffers from PTSD just in the beginning stages of Indoctrination?

3.  Show me one time, just one, where Shepard is having a waking hallucination in the game in support of your theory.

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

Have people here really not noticed by now that dreman9999 refuses to even consider other people's arguments and perspectives regarding IT, and that he rehashes the same arguments in basically every post? Along with posting only semi-relevant links to videos and Codex entries...

To the OP: I think it's a pretty easy explanation that the kid was deep in the vent when the explosion rocked the room, explaining how the kid survived. The kid was definitely real on Earth. I think Anderson would have made a bigger deal out of Shepard kneeling down and talking to himself for a minute if Anderson didn't hear the conversation.

1. Nothing I post is semi-relitive.
2. What I used in my argument rapidly changed in the dissusion.
3. You yet to prove my poinst wrong.
4.You still not considering the fact you dealing with machines with a history of warping the mind.

[Erield]

111987 wrote...

Have people here really not noticed by now that dreman9999 refuses to even consider other people's arguments and perspectives regarding IT, and that he rehashes the same arguments in basically every post? Along with posting only semi-relevant links to videos and Codex entries...

Oh, I think everyone who's ever read a thread he's posted in knows this.  As I mentioned earlier, though, I'm at work and currently have nothing better to do.  I'm trying to see how many walls he'll bash his head against saying the exact same thing over and over and over again before he leaves.  I mean, I firmly believe everything I say, so I'm not just trolling him--but it's entirely for my own amusement that I'm still here posting.

[111987]

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Have people here really not noticed by now that dreman9999 refuses to even consider other people's arguments and perspectives regarding IT, and that he rehashes the same arguments in basically every post? Along with posting only semi-relevant links to videos and Codex entries...

To the OP: I think it's a pretty easy explanation that the kid was deep in the vent when the explosion rocked the room, explaining how the kid survived. The kid was definitely real on Earth. I think Anderson would have made a bigger deal out of Shepard kneeling down and talking to himself for a minute if Anderson didn't hear the conversation.

1. Nothing I post is semi-relitive.
2. What I used in my argument rapidly changed in the dissusion.
3. You yet to prove my poinst wrong.
4.You still not considering the fact you dealing with machines with a history of warping the mind.

Yes, it's hard to prove you wrong when you refuse to listen to other people's POV...

[dreman9999]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...



1. Yet between ME2 and ME3 he started hallucinating so clearly he starts talking to figments of his imagination despite being in lockdown?

2. Like I said, that story is told through Kelly. Also the game ends after the suicide mission, when was Shepard going to have these dreams? Randomly when you're clearing up missions you missed? What would people who stopped after the credits do?


No, they begin in ME3 after Shepard watches a child die and his home planet get devastated in a matter of moments. That's why the dreams are introduced, to show the scale of the battle and that it's beginning to take a toll on Shepard.


But this is completely off-topic so I'll go back to my question you're oh-so-fond of ignoring.


Do you have any proof that the child on Earth is not real?

1. The hallucinations started once the reaper landed on earth. The same reapers that can effect the limbic system with indoctriantion.....
2.Did you miss the part where you can keep playing the game and talke to people? That means they can't have after game content?

3. Again, when were Shepard ptsd dreams in ME1 and ME2 AND WHY DO THEY ALWAYS HAPPEN AFTER SHEPARD FACES  REAPERS AND REAPER FORCES?

1. Hurr durr Shepard watches the kid out of his window before the reapers are even there so you fail.

2. Did you miss the part where the credits rolled and the game ended? You can't go sticking crucial plot developments outside of the mandatory parts of the game.

3. I've been over this, Bioware hadn't thought of them yet. Why wasn't the omni-blade in ME1 and ME2? Why weren't cannibals or marauders or banshees in ME1 or ME2? Why wasn't Vega in ME1 or ME2? Why was Udinas hair not brown in ME1 and ME2? Where were sub-machine guns in ME1? Where were thermal clips in ME1? Where was TIM in ME1? Where were the drell in ME1? They didn't have the entire trilogy penned out when they started making ME1.


And yay, you ignored my question again...


Do you have any proof that the child on Earth isn't real?

1. Who's said that kid  on that roofwas not really? I only refer to the kid on a different roof you met later is not.

2.You missed the part where you talk to your crew after the game ends and Legion tells you a critical plot point?
3.So what? You still can't say is just a ptsd dream. Their's still plenty of wholes in that? Like where was this dreams after thessia, or thane's death or Samara's Death. I can go on. 
The thing your missing is that it only comes up after a mission with the reapers and/or reaper tech and forces.... Andthey way indoctrination works, you don't see that it's strage. The limbic system is where ptsd is, it  effects dreams, and causes hallucination. Indoctrination  attacks and effect that system first. And your saying it can't happen when Shepard goes and face foreces that indoctrinate?

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Have people here really not noticed by now that dreman9999 refuses to even consider other people's arguments and perspectives regarding IT, and that he rehashes the same arguments in basically every post? Along with posting only semi-relevant links to videos and Codex entries...

To the OP: I think it's a pretty easy explanation that the kid was deep in the vent when the explosion rocked the room, explaining how the kid survived. The kid was definitely real on Earth. I think Anderson would have made a bigger deal out of Shepard kneeling down and talking to himself for a minute if Anderson didn't hear the conversation.

1. Nothing I post is semi-relitive.
2. What I used in my argument rapidly changed in the dissusion.
3. You yet to prove my poinst wrong.
4.You still not considering the fact you dealing with machines with a history of warping the mind.

Yes, it's hard to prove you wrong when you refuse to listen to other people's POV...

And these other people pov ignore the fact that reapers indoctrinate as well as their tech. It a givenif I see they are missing a point.

[dreman9999]

Erield wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Erield wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Indoctintion  is sublte and can work slowly. It's clear Shepard wasnot in an advance stage yet.
2.That doesn't stop Shepard form having those PSDT dreams about liquified people.
3. And yet we have dreams in ME3 with them crying out in his dreams.

And you don't see that it's odd the dreams come up after your face the reapers and their forces who can all indoctrinate?

1.  If IT was intended by Bioware all along (as in, from ME1, or maybe ME2), and IT is just following through with the basic plot/story of the trilogy, then why didn't we see any dreams before?  Three years, man...that's a long time to go without having a single Reaper-induced dream, and then suddenly getting them every other night.

2 & 3.  Everyone has a breaking point.  Everyone.  Each person is fundamentally different.  There was a thread on the forums that had vets talking about their real-life, real-war experiences.  You don't know when, where, or how it'll hit you.  One guy was saying that it took nearly a year.  A YEAR.  for the events to catch up with him.  He wasn't even doing anything special or different at the time, just all of a sudden, BAM.  Wanna know what the trigger/breaking point was for Shepard?  Seeing the kid that he tried to save die.  Seeing Earth burn.  Seeing Reapers everywhere.  NOT seeing any hope; the galaxy is unprepared and defenseless.

1. As  said before, indoctriantion is sublte.. It takes time to do. Shepard was not in a level of being control. The plot of ME1 and 2 use indoctriantion in away to explaint he reals and syntoms of it.
2.Exactly, why is everyone's SHepard have the same braking point? Each players Shepard is differnt from the other. He is a character who persona and  ego is control the player...We are Shepard basicly.  Why do all our Separd have the same breaking point just as the reapers invade. Why do the dreams come up everythime we face reapers and reaper tech that used indoctrination the attack the limbic system, which controls dreams and ptsd?

1.  So, it takes 3 years to get to the point that Shepard has waking hallucinations but no dreams, and 3 years 1 day to get hallucinations plus dreams?  Why did Shepard never suffer another waking hallucination if this is an ability of theirs?

2.  a) /sigh.  Why does every Shepard resist Indoctrination for the exact same amount of time?  Specious argument is specious. 
      The first dream happens before Palaven.  I can't recall off-hand if it's just before or just after Mars.  There's only three dreams total, not four.  Each time that there's a Reaper present, there's also the fate of an entire species at stake.  There's a funny thing about stress--it's bad for sleeping well.  How well did you sleep the last time you almost died?  How well did you sleep the last time you almost failed, and thus doomed all life in the galaxy to extinction?
      c) The Asari commando in the hospital on the Citadel is suffering from PTSD, not Indoctrination.  She was alone, fighting against overwhelming odds, surviving on a planet over-run by Reapers.  Why was she not Indoctrinated or suffering symptoms of Indoctrination, just PTSD?  Or is every single person who suffers from PTSD just in the beginning stages of Indoctrination?

3.  Show me one time, just one, where Shepard is having a waking hallucination in the game in support of your theory.

1.Base on the lore , Yes. To have a thinking 
 thrall  takes time to do based on teh codex. Year and month is what it clearly says.
2. The first dream hapens exacly after palvin...Not mars.
The second after the last mission on Tuchanka.
the third after the last mission on rennoch.
The last one is afte sacturay/before the cerberus base.
Each dreams happens after facing the reapers and/or there forces...

3. The end of the game.
You know....
 

Modifié par dreman9999, 02 juin 2012 - 02:59 .

[jijeebo]

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


1. Hurr durr Shepard watches the kid out of his window before the reapers are even there so you fail.

2. Did you miss the part where the credits rolled and the game ended? You can't go sticking crucial plot developments outside of the mandatory parts of the game.

3. I've been over this, Bioware hadn't thought of them yet. Why wasn't the omni-blade in ME1 and ME2? Why weren't cannibals or marauders or banshees in ME1 or ME2? Why wasn't Vega in ME1 or ME2? Why was Udinas hair not brown in ME1 and ME2? Where were sub-machine guns in ME1? Where were thermal clips in ME1? Where was TIM in ME1? Where were the drell in ME1? They didn't have the entire trilogy penned out when they started making ME1.


And yay, you ignored my question again...


Do you have any proof that the child on Earth isn't real?

1. Who's said that kid  on that roofwas not really? I only refer to the kid on a different roof you met later is not.

2.You missed the part where you talk to your crew after the game ends and Legion tells you a critical plot point?
3.So what? You still can't say is just a ptsd dream. Their's still plenty of wholes in that? Like where was this dreams after thessia, or thane's death or Samara's Death. I can go on. 
The thing your missing is that it only comes up after a mission with the reapers and/or reaper tech and forces.... Andthey way indoctrination works, you don't see that it's strage. The limbic system is where ptsd is, it  effects dreams, and causes hallucination. Indoctrination  attacks and effect that system first. And your saying it can't happen when Shepard goes and face foreces that indoctrinate?

1. Uh, this entire thread is about the kid on Earth not being real?

2. I don't remember what he says but I doubt it's THAT important.


How could I possibly miss it, you mention it in every single post even though I've given you my interpretation of those events.


I never said it couldn't I said I really, really think it didn't based on the games I played and the things i've seen since release.



13th time, or is it 14th? I've lost count...


Do you have proof that the child on Earth isn't real?

[111987]

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Have people here really not noticed by now that dreman9999 refuses to even consider other people's arguments and perspectives regarding IT, and that he rehashes the same arguments in basically every post? Along with posting only semi-relevant links to videos and Codex entries...

To the OP: I think it's a pretty easy explanation that the kid was deep in the vent when the explosion rocked the room, explaining how the kid survived. The kid was definitely real on Earth. I think Anderson would have made a bigger deal out of Shepard kneeling down and talking to himself for a minute if Anderson didn't hear the conversation.

1. Nothing I post is semi-relitive.
2. What I used in my argument rapidly changed in the dissusion.
3. You yet to prove my poinst wrong.
4.You still not considering the fact you dealing with machines with a history of warping the mind.

Yes, it's hard to prove you wrong when you refuse to listen to other people's POV...

And these other people pov ignore the fact that reapers indoctrinate as well as their tech. It a givenif I see they are missing a point.

Okay, let's take a stab at your argument that Shepard only has dreams after Reaper missions, indicating indoctrination. According to one of your major arguments (and the evidence is true in this case), Reaper forces do indoctrinate.

You say the dreams always happen after exposure to Reaper tech. But what about Thessia? There are no dreams after Thessia, when according to you there should be?

The reason those dreams take place when they do is because the writers are trying to make you feel a certain way. In the "Final Hours App" they show you how they try to map how much tension a player should feel at certain points of the story. If Shepard had dreams after every mission with Reapers, it would be too often and hurt the pacing of the game.