214 réponses à ce sujet

[VRtheTrooper]

[inappropriate post removed. User banned.]

not cool man...not cool.

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 01 juin 2012 - 06:41 .

[Adhok42]

Radio Moscow wrote...

You are all correct. Racism is never funny.

I hope this has been a learning experience for us all.

Hear hear my good fellow! Your joke was in poor taste but quite the learning experiance for us all. I commend you! *gentleman's clap*

Shotgun sniping, (close scoping, no scoping, sniping at point blakn range, whatever you call it) is also difficult and takes pratice to master. This is why Snipers usally have side arms but sometimes you just don't have time to switch over.

[Ikilledkillab]

Exactly, they are conceding that sniping takes no skill. Essentially the response is "well spamming powers requires no skill either". They are offering a red herring argument. Welcome to the world of logical fallacies.

Quoted for awesomeness.

[Edalborez]

So just because a sniper doesn't have to walk over and throw his bacon in the oven alongside you, you think he's unskilled or you're skilled? Skill has nothing to do with it. It's like being upset that one kid got vanilla while you got chocolate. It's still ice cream. Or dead people. One of the two.

Now I'm hungry.

[CaptainAchilles]

The only skill involved in cloaking and sniping is sniping. The cloaking part takes no skill whatsoever, and obviously makes it incredibly easy to get around without disruption. Basically, your teammates who aren't cloaked will take the enemy fire.

[atum]

A few points from someone who plays a fair amount of SI, (as well as HV, HSe, AA, AJ, AV, DA).

1) Tac Cloak doesnt work if you are close to the enemy, they will see you if you get within a few meters

2) Tac Cloak doesnt immediately render you a non-target. All enemies who were firing on you when you cloaked, or were about to fire on you, will lob one more volley in the last place they saw you.

3) Tac Cloak prevents your shield from recharging while cloaked. Which can be a problem because of #2

4) Not all infiltrators will sit on a perch and snipe from behind an ammo box. Most of us move around.

5) Many infiltrators take great pride in acting like the team medic. And cloak breaks when you revive someone. So it can be tricky to time. And even trickier to get to where your teammate is bleeding out. Many sniper builds are not made for CQC.

6) Many infiltrators take great pride in doing the 4 capture objectives. Another thing that's tricky to time. Use cloak while capturing? Or while getting to the objective?

7) If the team wipes, the infiltrator is *oftentimes* the only one who can finish the round, despite being mostly "seen" while invisible (something to do with being the only one on the map).

8) Aiming definitely matters on PC, (I don't know how consoles work in this regard). On PC there isnt auto-aim (it sounded like people were actually claiming this was the case). There *is* an adjustment to the angles/physics of most ALL weapons so that the shots go when the reticule is pointing. (see the comparison to Proximity Mine for how actual projectiles would work). There is nothing strange about this, and it isnt auto-aiming. It's just how video games work.

9) Quick-scoping is definitely a skill and takes time to get good at.

10) The minimum recharge on Tac Cloak is ~3 seconds, which is an eternity to "Mr Magic Rocket Trooper", a Hunter, a Pyro, a Prime, or a Marauder.


There are definitely skills and tactics to this game. Anyone posting otherwise is full of rubbish.

Modifié par atum, 01 juin 2012 - 05:48 .

[xelf207]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

Exactly, they are conceding that sniping takes no skill. Essentially the response is "well spamming powers requires no skill either". They are offering a red herring argument. Welcome to the world of logical fallacies.

Quoted for awesomeness.

I love how you removed your name from the quote.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Fluffeh Kitteh wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Look, if you have fun doing this, then more power to you.  But I just don't get this claim that it requires a lot of skill.  Or any skill for that matter.  Do the people claiming this really believe it?

Cos you have to aim? That's like how sniping works in any game with snipers, not just the ones where the sniper can become invisible like Crysis.

I mean... aiming is a skill isn't it? Thats why sports like archery and shooting exist in real life?

And if you miss, what's the downside?  Sure, you need to aim to get a kill, but unlike your teammate armed with a shotgun, a miss will generally not result in you getting killed.  You are invisible after all, and probably far away from enemies.  You just have to reload and try again.

 

Are you aware that if you shoot after you cloak, your cloak disengages? Most infiltrators do not sit there cloaked, popping heads off one by one. They don't stay cloaked very long at all. They turn on cloak just before using a power to keep the cooldown short, and they cloak just before shooting to add a damage boost to the shots. If they're specced for sniper damage while cloaked, both of those things break the cloak.

I usually play infiltrator and the only time I cloak for long periods is when I'm running towards/doing objectives. 

Besides, half the time when you cloak, an enemy already has their sights on you and is dead-set on finding you, anyway.

Modifié par xelf207, 01 juin 2012 - 05:49 .

[Draining Dragon]

Tactical Cloak is one of the worst possible powers for a teamwork based game.

[Methanoid666]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Look, if you have fun doing this, then more power to you.  But I just don't get this claim that it requires a lot of skill.  Or any skill for that matter.  Do the people claiming this really believe it?

some people *gasp* can miss/not aim straight, those people do exist out there somewhere, to them yes its a skill.

[Mystical_Gaming]

I like using my Quarian Engineer with a sniper mid to close range quickscope headshotting everything I see. Not sure if it's skill or not but I don't care. It's fun and actually helps me survive encounters against many enemies.

I think if you are constantly moving with a sniper and hitting moving targets (while you are moving too) that is skill opposed to player who stands in one spot and can only hit targets that are not moving much or coming at them in such an angle it's an easy shot. When I snipe I move constantly.

In the end though, who cares. As long as we win it's all fine and dandy. Players can say it requires skill or not. Doesn't bother me, I just want my xp and credits =)

[Ledgend1221]

The only skilled class is the Human soldier.

[nicethugbert]

Sniper rifles are not the only weapons that infiltrators use nor are they the only weapons that require aim. Infiltrators are not the only ones that require aim to succeed, but, they are the only ones that get to hide behind their team in plain site, and they get have a massive damage bonus on top of it. When you cloak, the only thing that makes aiming difficult is the crack the enemies are on which make them jittery. Meanwhile, the non-infiltrators are trying to hit those jittery targets too, while getting shot, without that massive sniper rifle damage bonus. It takes more skill to play as a non-infiltrator because there is no one for you to hide behind.

Infiltrators carry the team because they have the tools to do it, not because they are the best players.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 01 juin 2012 - 10:31 .

[Immortal Strife]

Feneckus wrote...

I would agree with you if it was Battlefield or something. Snipers are cowards who have ruined every single FPS for as long as I can remember.

Huh  

I take your statement as a sign that you are not good at first person shooters.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 01 juin 2012 - 05:58 .

[mrcanada]

Snipers throughout history would like a word with you.  While they didn't have cloaking devices, they were invisible.

Hitting moving targets can be difficult, even in this game.

[MidgardSerpentZ]

What a ****ty way of starting a discussion, OP.

[John123453242]

Come play a game with me. We can both snipe. I will show you first hand how much skill it takes.

[Immortal Strife]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

The only skilled class is the Human soldier.

Another bogus statement. How can claymore->Ar->claymore be considered the most skilled class. Sure you could use different weapons And be less effective, if that's your poragative.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 01 juin 2012 - 06:09 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

nicethugbert wrote...

Sniper rifles are not the only weapons that infiltrators use nor are they the only weapons that require aim. Infiltrators are not the only ones that require aim to succeed, but, they are the only ones that get to hide behind their team in plain site, and they get have a massive damage on top of it. When you cloak, the only thing that makes aiming difficult is the crack the enemies are on which make them jittery. Meanwhile, the non-infiltrators are trying to hit those jittery targets too, while getting shot, without that massive sniper rifle damage bonus. It takes more skill to play as a non-infiltrator because there is no one for you to hide behind.

Infiltrators care the team because they have the tools to do it, not because they are the best players.

This is the way I'm starting to see it.  It's not really a sniper problem so much as an infiltrator power issue.  The damage bonus is probably what pushes it in over the edge.  The ability to make onesself invisible seems like a powerful enough ability on its own.  Like you said, shooting at enemies who can't see you is a HUGE advantage.  Is the damage bonus really necessary?

Plus, a sniper rifle bonus seems to go against what an infiltrator should be about - sneaking up on your enemy at close range and taking them out.  With a long-range weapon, you really aren't infiltrating.

mrcanada wrote...

Snipers throughout history would like a word with you.  While they didn't have cloaking devices, they were invisible.

Hitting moving targets can be difficult, even in this game.

Agreed, but snipers throughout history did not have a huge damage bonus that somehow makes a long-range shot more powerful than a shotgun blast at close range.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 01 juin 2012 - 06:25 .

[OblivionDawn]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Look, if you have fun doing this, then more power to you.  But I just don't get this claim that it requires a lot of skill.  Or any skill for that matter.  Do the people claiming this really believe it?

Who is saying that it requires skill, lol?

It doesn't require much skill, but it's fun. Just like the game as a whole. The minority crying for nerfs have no authority on how people can and can't have fun.

Wow for some reason I thought this was a Krysae whining thread, disregard the previous statement.

Sniping does take skill because you need to get headshots to take full advantage of your sniper rifle.

And you aren't sniping while you're invisible. You're either shooting before or after you cloak.

It definitely requires more skill than throwing biotics the entire match without hardly having to aim.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 01 juin 2012 - 06:29 .

[AdmLancel]

Oh joy, another infiltrator hate thread, made even worse by derailment.

Look, the main skill use in this game is the appropriate use of weapons and abilities, situational awareness, and tactical positioning. Pointing a rifle or a reticule at something is not a huge deal at the ranges in ME, especially when the guns are mostly instant hit with no bullet drop.

Cloak gives the option to reposition even while under suppression fire. I'm sure some would say this requires no skill because a good player wouldn't have let themselves get into that position to begin with. Another way to look at it is that an Infiltrator can linger longer before needing to reposition, thus they can draw enemies in closer before triggering cloak to make an escape. This is not instant win, because there does come a point where cloak won't save you. Some enemies will know where you cloaked and spam bullets in that area, missiles and rockets will track you even if you cloak, and some enemies will melee/shoot you as you run past them, and if you waste too much time and don't get away before cloak wears off, suddenly bullets, lots of bullets, and if you get shot at while you retreat, well probably no shields for you when this happens. All this needs to be kept in mind when planning your escape route. Track the locations of as many enemies as you can, track their ability to missile you, and plan your escape while avoiding their line of fire toward your last known position. Remember that bullets keep going unless stopped by an outside force, so don't run directly away from a Marauder.

Cloak is also a deaggro ability, though imperfect. This isn't ME2, the enemies won't instantly switch targets to your teammates once the infiltrator presses 1, they may choose to empty clips at the infiltrator's last position. Besides that, if the infiltrator does get into a fix, the infiltrator can cloak to avoid getting killed, which yes, does rely on the rest of the team to tank fire and avoid getting killed. This is still helping your team, and helping your teammates, you are simply upset because it's involuntary, which yes, is annoying, and sometimes maybe you can't tank for the infiltrator's deaggro, but saying that they're using you as a decoy is just applying sinister motives to something that is probably innocent. I sure as hell don't go around thinking "hey, if I cloak, I can wait for the enemy to switch fire to the rest of my team and then KILL EVERYTHING!!!1one"

[marmot 1333]

Radio Moscow - You might want to learn what a Joke is. It usually has some element of humor or makes people laugh. Using an acronym to spell out a racial slur is not a joke, it's just being a jerk.

Reported.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

OblivionDawn wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Look, if you have fun doing this, then more power to you.  But I just don't get this claim that it requires a lot of skill.  Or any skill for that matter.  Do the people claiming this really believe it?

Who is saying that it requires skill, lol?

It doesn't require much skill, but it's fun. Just like the game as a whole. The minority crying for nerfs have no authority on how people can and can't have fun.

Wow for some reason I thought this was a Krysae whining thread, disregard the previous statement.

Sniping does take skill because you need to get headshots to take full advantage of your sniper rifle.

And you aren't sniping while you're invisible. You're either shooting before or after you cloak.

It definitely requires more skill than throwing biotics the entire match without hardly having to aim.

The fact that you're invisible though means you can take several seconds to line up the perfect shot without risking being fired at.  The most you need to worry about being hit is the time in-between cloaks.  Even then, you just need to evade for a short time before you cloak again.

[Ninja Stan]

Racial slurs and off-topic discussion have been removed. Those posting and reposting the slur have been banned 24 hours. Don't feed the trolls, people. Just message a Moderator and move on, or you might find yourselves violating the Site Rules.

And please stop it with the swearing. Thank you.

[rtwebre]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Racial slurs and off-topic discussion have been removed. Those posting and reposting the slur have been banned 24 hours. Don't feed the trolls, people. Just message a Moderator and move on, or you might find yourselves violating the Site Rules.

And please stop it with the swearing. Thank you.

Awsome name sir. Are you related to Scuba Steve?

Modifié par rtwebre, 01 juin 2012 - 06:49 .

[Ravenguild]

It's not none of the ways you deal damage in this game take skill, just persistence. Staying alive under fire, moving and taking cover appropriately. Other than that the only skill is knowing what powers and weapons to use in what situation.