214 réponses à ce sujet

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Ravenguild wrote...

It's not none of the ways you deal damage in this game take skill, just persistence. Staying alive under fire, moving and taking cover appropriately. Other than that the only skill is knowing what powers and weapons to use in what situation.

Well that's just it - the combination of infiltrator + sniper rifle allows you deal more damage while simultaneously making it easier to avoid being fired at.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I'd argue that dodging, advancing, taking cover, falling back, and repositioning all require better player skill that "point and click" sniping or "press 1 then 2 repeat" power spam. There's a lot more to gameplay skill than just which method you use to target enemies.

[DM Clone 1]

QI 25/8

enemy can see through cloak

0 health and shields

cloak breaks after the shot

sabotage works only on 1 enemy and not every time

pop corn grenades

slow CD

ps: give a SHOT

[Creakazoid]

So, basically this thread is implying that no FPS game in existence requires aiming skill since "sniping from a distance with a high-powered rifle" is a mainstay of FPS games. But, of course! The only skilled games are RPGs! This thread is just a FPS-hating thread in disguise.

[Miniditka77]

TheCinC wrote...

Like others have said, you need aim. Have you seen a Phantom move? Try shooting one while they are doing a somersault. Then try to do that with an unforgiving, slow reloading weapon. Then try to do that when your teammates are dead and they all depend on you finishing the match. Or try to take out a Banshee fast enough before it instakills your teammates.

A good game is when you have a group of people, each with their own skill, each doing their job. If you have good sniper on your team, this is an asset. If you have an Asari Justicar on your team, rocking the map with biotic explosions, this is an asset. Don't complain when someone does their job well.

My thoughts exactly.  Good snipers can make things much easier for their teammates.  And being a good sniper doesn't just mean landing headshots, it means understanding positioning and selecting the right targets to take out to support your team.  Infiltrators get a bad rap because too many of them are just trying to see how many kills/headshots they can get. 

[mrcanada]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Sniper rifles are not the only weapons that infiltrators use nor are they the only weapons that require aim. Infiltrators are not the only ones that require aim to succeed, but, they are the only ones that get to hide behind their team in plain site, and they get have a massive damage on top of it. When you cloak, the only thing that makes aiming difficult is the crack the enemies are on which make them jittery. Meanwhile, the non-infiltrators are trying to hit those jittery targets too, while getting shot, without that massive sniper rifle damage bonus. It takes more skill to play as a non-infiltrator because there is no one for you to hide behind.

Infiltrators care the team because they have the tools to do it, not because they are the best players.

This is the way I'm starting to see it.  It's not really a sniper problem so much as an infiltrator power issue.  The damage bonus is probably what pushes it in over the edge.  The ability to make onesself invisible seems like a powerful enough ability on its own.  Like you said, shooting at enemies who can't see you is a HUGE advantage.  Is the damage bonus really necessary?

Plus, a sniper rifle bonus seems to go against what an infiltrator should be about - sneaking up on your enemy at close range and taking them out.  With a long-range weapon, you really aren't infiltrating.

mrcanada wrote...

Snipers throughout history would like a word with you.  While they didn't have cloaking devices, they were invisible.

Hitting moving targets can be difficult, even in this game.

Agreed, but snipers throughout history did not have a huge damage bonus that somehow makes a long-range shot more powerful than a shotgun blast at close range.

LOL, well that is true. Damage bonus from not being spotted initiated!!!

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Miniditka77 wrote...

TheCinC wrote...

Like others have said, you need aim. Have you seen a Phantom move? Try shooting one while they are doing a somersault. Then try to do that with an unforgiving, slow reloading weapon. Then try to do that when your teammates are dead and they all depend on you finishing the match. Or try to take out a Banshee fast enough before it instakills your teammates.

A good game is when you have a group of people, each with their own skill, each doing their job. If you have good sniper on your team, this is an asset. If you have an Asari Justicar on your team, rocking the map with biotic explosions, this is an asset. Don't complain when someone does their job well.

My thoughts exactly.  Good snipers can make things much easier for their teammates.  And being a good sniper doesn't just mean landing headshots, it means understanding positioning and selecting the right targets to take out to support your team.  Infiltrators get a bad rap because too many of them are just trying to see how many kills/headshots they can get. 

Sniping, in and of itself, takes skill.

Level of skill required to be successful, from most to least:

1) Sniping
2) Sniping + cloak
3) Sniping + cloak + large sniper rifle damage bonus

mrcanada wrote...
LOL, well that is true. Damage bonus from not being spotted initiated!!!

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 01 juin 2012 - 07:04 .

[Superotter]

As for skills, i dunno. I certainly would think that trying to pick off a phantom across the map (100+m away) that is about to attack a team mate would be a good sign of some form of aiming ability. Those suckers jump, spin and twirl to the annoyance of every sniper. It not an easy shot. I'm thinking along the lines of Hydra and you being on one end of the map and the phantom on the other, thats a big map. Its not like a nemesis that likes to hide behind every box in the open and just stands there waiting to be shot. I think that with the above along with the sense of knowing what and how to assist the team (knowing which target to take down/save your team/revive/capture points) is a good starting point for skill.

[eye basher]

DoctorEss wrote...

Because you have to aim, and the rifles generally punish people that can't.

Trust me, you might not notice if you only play bronze or silver, but in gold, you can *feel* when your team's infiltrator isn't pulling his weight. A lot of people pull a BW out of their PSP, and think they're now godsniper 5000.

They then do badly. So clearly, there is some form of skill/learning curve attached to this, otherwise everyone that picked up a rifle would be amazing. They aren't.

Just point the crosshair at the enemies and shoot it's not like is rocket science.

[OblivionDawn]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Look, if you have fun doing this, then more power to you.  But I just don't get this claim that it requires a lot of skill.  Or any skill for that matter.  Do the people claiming this really believe it?

Who is saying that it requires skill, lol?

It doesn't require much skill, but it's fun. Just like the game as a whole. The minority crying for nerfs have no authority on how people can and can't have fun.

Wow for some reason I thought this was a Krysae whining thread, disregard the previous statement.

Sniping does take skill because you need to get headshots to take full advantage of your sniper rifle.

And you aren't sniping while you're invisible. You're either shooting before or after you cloak.

It definitely requires more skill than throwing biotics the entire match without hardly having to aim.

The fact that you're invisible though means you can take several seconds to line up the perfect shot without risking being fired at.  The most you need to worry about being hit is the time in-between cloaks.  Even then, you just need to evade for a short time before you cloak again.

If someone is taking that much time to line up shots, then they're not much of a skillful Infiltrator to begin with.

Most Infiltrators hit the cloak button, and have the shot lined up and fired before the cloak animation even finishes. Considering that enemies tend to see through the cloak, the only real advantage Infiltrators get from "invisibility" is being able to get to objectives behind enemy lines. And that benefits everyone.

Modifié par OblivionDawn, 01 juin 2012 - 07:31 .

[A Wild Snorlax]

Because power spamming takes so much more skill, derp.

This game takes little skill to play in general. Anything that relies on weapons for damage generally takes more skill as you actually need some sort of aiming capability to do well with it. Still not very hard though. This is not halo mlg. You're shooting stupid bots.

[puldalpha]

the people who complain about being decoys so infiltrators don't get shot while in cloak are wrong. A good infiltrator is only in cloak for half a second as he cloaks, sometimes uses a power, and shoots. and imo, shooting a gun across the map is much more fun then lb, cooldown, rb, cooldown, lb, cooldown, etc. etc.

[Riscoliscious]

Sniping from across the map can be IS incredibly difficult as one is dealing with the fact that his target is very far away and the slightest mistake in aim will result in a miss.

[THE1Grimbo]

RamPuppy wrote...

why do you care? play your way, let others play theirs.

This

[kiko1287]

OP obviously got outscored by an Infiltrator and is now butt tickled.

[Mr. Heavy]

You can easily say the same thing about adepts.  You don't even have to aim.  Just sit in cover, warp, throw, boom, repeat, 100k score.

We all know that's not totally true though.  Target selection, damage avoidance, when to run, what to kite vs kill, how to control spawns, etc., etc.   So even ignoring that enemies see through cloak, it's more than just sitting back and shooting.

[Trae ThaThruth]

Javilen takes skill to use if someone says it doesn't then they don't use it or don't own it.

The delay in firing makes this sniper rifle the hardest to use and giving it also has one of the slowest reload times and one of the trickest reload cancels it takes some skill to master.

I can see the OP's points with any SR outside of the javi cuz frankly just standing back and cloak+ shotting is the eziest thing to do.Now I can also agree that there are some infiltraters that do go after objectives and rez which makes them a good assest to any team.

I myself only use javi on my GI if I'm going sniping for a match but I also can play multiple classes and I've never just stood in one area unless I'm goofing off in bronze or got put in a fbw gold match and its not objectives rounds.

Also I want to point this out consoles DO NOT have auto aim. It's called auto assist all it does is when you scope in it locks on to sometimes the closest Target to you but it only locks for maybe less then 2secs. It does not follow a target like auto aim does, it does not work if you don't scope in unlike auto aim which works in and out of scope. Reason for a auto assist in console fps games is cuz the response time is slower with a controller then with a mouse. Both PC and consoles still have to aim regardless just console gets a bit of "aid" for a second or 2 due to slower response. Does this make PC players better then console no and it doesn't make console better then pc it just shows the hardware difference simple

[Adhok42]

eye basher wrote...
Just point the crosshair at the enemies and shoot it's not like is rocket science.

Bodyshots aren't. So easy a cave man can do it.

Now lets see you get headshots.

[AdmLancel]

Don't forget the Kishock, that thing takes some time to get used to.

[tetsutsuru]

OP is merely trolling.  Do not feed.

Modifié par tetsutsuru, 01 juin 2012 - 09:02 .

[Mandalore313]

Sniping in real life has nothing to do with anything depicted in any games you may have played with the exception of arma and the old rainbow six games.

This thread is pointless, the only thing I see here is hate for people playing with SRs.

[Deviija]

Sniping is more than just selecting targets from across the field and taking them down while under full invisible cloak (because I can tell you how often I get smashed by homing missiles geth troopers and the atlus use, and how often husks straight run up/follow you/jump on you regardless). A good infiltrator will utilize cloak to help the team win objectives like the 4-drop objective (particularly when it is crowded with enemies around). A good infiltrator will use cloak to run in, dodge enemies, and revive teammates. A good infiltrator will pick off targets pursuing teammates, and will watch their backs. A good infiltrator plays to benefit the team, not plays to win the highest score or act as some lone wolf renegade.

It isn't all pew pew pew headshots EZ-mode, here.

Modifié par Deviija, 01 juin 2012 - 08:57 .

[Reapinger]

Cloak is pretty broken now, since people basically always see you. Also, it's a preference. Everyone here has brought up a pretty decent counterpoint to this pointless thread.

[Atheosis]

It takes some skill, but really it's not nearly as skill-intensive as some people make it sound. Nor do you have to consistently score headshots to be highly effective doing it.

[Atheosis]

Adhok42 wrote...

eye basher wrote...
Just point the crosshair at the enemies and shoot it's not like is rocket science.

Bodyshots aren't. So easy a cave man can do it.

Now lets see you get headshots.

With how powerful Tactical Cloak is, headshots are pretty much nothing but style points.