214 réponses à ce sujet

[ThirdChild ZKI]

So the focus has now shifted from hating the Krysae to hating Infiltrators/Snipers?

Ugh. . . always something. Whatever, I'd rather be playing than debating or complaining. . .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

The point is this - there is no downside to playing as an infiltrator. The other classes all have their strengths and weaknesses. The skill is in utilizing their strengths while simultaneously overcoming their weaknesses.

There is no downside to sniping as an infiltrator. There are no drawbacks that limit your effectiveness that are exclusive to this class/weapon combination. In other words, there is no skill that is required to play this character that isn't required for every other character.

[Sabbatine]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Look, if you have fun doing this, then more power to you.  But I just don't get this claim that it requires a lot of skill.  Or any skill for that matter.  Do the people claiming this really believe it?

It's always hilarious to me when someone who doesn't step foot outside of bronze games talks about tactical cloak like they know the first thing about it.

I wish it made me invisible, that'd make my life a lot easier.

[Atheosis]

ThirdChild ZKI wrote...

So the focus has now shifted from hating the Krysae to hating Infiltrators/Snipers?

Ugh. . . always something. Whatever, I'd rather be playing than debating or complaining. . .

I don't think the focus has shifted at all.  It's more that many people are getting sick of all the Kyrsae nerf threads when Infiltrators are the real problem in the equation. 

[John123453242]

Aiming is the skill cmn. Maybe you can claim the shotgun infiltrators don't take as much skill, but your posts don't make sense for snipers. I have seen many snipers that only hurt the team because they couldn't shoot a sniper.

Again, come use a sniper in a match with me. Show me that it is easy to match what I do.

[Mevanna]

Please explain how sniping from a long distance with a high-powered rifle while invisible is a skillful activity

It used to be back when you needed to actually be good at aiming. But then the Krysae came along and now it's even more boring than sitting in cover spamming warp/throw. 

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Sabbatine wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Look, if you have fun doing this, then more power to you.  But I just don't get this claim that it requires a lot of skill.  Or any skill for that matter.  Do the people claiming this really believe it?

It's always hilarious to me when someone who doesn't step foot outside of bronze games talks about tactical cloak like they know the first thing about it.

I wish it made me invisible, that'd make my life a lot easier.

It's hilarious to me that people like yourself claim that there is no huge advantage to playing with tactical cloak, but they play characters with tactical cloak 95% of the time.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

John123453242 wrote...

Aiming is the skill cmn. Maybe you can claim the shotgun infiltrators don't take as much skill, but your posts don't make sense for snipers. I have seen many snipers that only hurt the team because they couldn't shoot a sniper.

Again, come use a sniper in a match with me. Show me that it is easy to match what I do.

There's skill involved with sniping.  I've realized the issue is more with infiltrators and their powers than with sniping per se.

[Darksaberexile]

Trae ThaThruth wrote...

Also I want to point this out consoles DO NOT have auto aim. It's called auto assist all it does is when you scope in it locks on to sometimes the closest Target to you but it only locks for maybe less then 2secs. It does not follow a target like auto aim does, it does not work if you don't scope in unlike auto aim which works in and out of scope. Reason for a auto assist in console fps games is cuz the response time is slower with a controller then with a mouse. Both PC and consoles still have to aim regardless just console gets a bit of "aid" for a second or 2 due to slower response. Does this make PC players better then console no and it doesn't make console better then pc it just shows the hardware difference simple

Not to mention that the auto assist usually picks a target other than the one you want to shoot at, or at least in my experience it does. Kind of annoying having to aim, have it move my aim completely to a different target, and then aim back at what I wanted to shoot. 

[Aiyie]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Creakazoid wrote...

Is spamming auto-aim powers more skillful than manual aiming?

If enemies are able to see you and attack you, then yes.

considering that those abilities all possess either the ability to stun or otherwise incapcitate, or can be fired from the safety of cover or around corners....

i honestly don't see a difference.

except that long range snipers scoring consistent headshots requires at least a modicum of ability aiming, while spamming auto-aim powers from behind corners or while the bad guy is safely stasis'd or stunned does not.

[jakal66]

People who haven't played gold. really shouldn't talk about infiltrators...there's no running like idiot chicken in gold.I played a match in silver yesterday, and it was a fragger fest,no skills,no team work and basically no fun, worst part we folded in round 9,silver again,silver(reapers).Mind you i wasn't using an inf i was using a low level Vorcha,anyhow try kicking ass in gold with an infiltrator surrounded by geth primes that still detect you even when cloaked, or try killing anyone with a one shot kill,not gonna happen.
Bronze 3 headshots= 3 kills
Gold 3 or sometimes 2 headshots=1 kill

So I believe to be a good inf means to try and get headshots all the time, help with objectives that won't require the whole team so that you can get the objectives while they get the kills,and many many times save your sorry asses when you die-.

Modifié par jakal66, 01 juin 2012 - 09:30 .

[Reapinger]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The point is this - there is no downside to playing as an infiltrator. The other classes all have their strengths and weaknesses. The skill is in utilizing their strengths while simultaneously overcoming their weaknesses.

There is no downside to sniping as an infiltrator. There are no drawbacks that limit your effectiveness that are exclusive to this class/weapon combination. In other words, there is no skill that is required to play this character that isn't required for every other character.

Close range is generally considered a problem with infiltrators edit: with snipers like you're complaining about not to be confused with shotgun infiltrator build... Tactical cloak isn't tactical invisibility. Tell me the downside to playing as an adept with a pistol like a carnifex then? Cooldowns? Please. 

Modifié par Reapinger, 01 juin 2012 - 09:31 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Reapinger wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The point is this - there is no downside to playing as an infiltrator. The other classes all have their strengths and weaknesses. The skill is in utilizing their strengths while simultaneously overcoming their weaknesses.

There is no downside to sniping as an infiltrator. There are no drawbacks that limit your effectiveness that are exclusive to this class/weapon combination. In other words, there is no skill that is required to play this character that isn't required for every other character.

Close range is generally considered a problem with infiltrators edit: with snipers like you're complaining about not to be confused with shotgun infiltrator build... Tactical cloak isn't tactical invisibility. Tell me the downside to playing as an adept with a pistol like a carnifex then? Cooldowns? Please. 

Close range without the ability to cloak.

[DerberAuner]

ok i dont understand how the hell this is even a question?
if youre playing bronze, sure, you have more than enough time to just aim your rifle and pull the trigger, but once you go to silver and gold, you CANT rely on single shot snipers anymore sonce your dps drops too low.
personally, i love the infiltrator class for the high dps you can get with a SR like the Viper or the Valiant, asuming of course you know what youre doing. because once again, outside of bronze, you will need more than one headshot to kill someone.

i regularily play the soldier, too. that one with a saber though. And let me tell you, theres not much difference to me. i go for headshots there too. same thing with a sentinel. havent played vanguard in the mp much, but i assume its the same as in SP, charge, hit em with your shotgun, drop n roll to cover, reload and repeat.

i dont paricularily see power users as the "skilled" players. but that might be ignorance on my part. maybe the skill lies therein, that you are limiting your potential by not going for weapon damage. but, hey what do i know, its not like i get my 20 headshots around the same time i get my first 25 kills trophy... oh wait i do...

the trick to skill is using your class to their fullest potential. in the weaponreliant classes (infiltrator and soldier, rest not sure) that means going for headshots at the greatest possible distances. for the powerreliant ones that means going for combos and probably getting close up, since your powers fly, and if your mates know their stuff theyll kill your guy before your skill hits.

so all in all: skill means doing damage efficiently and not dying much, for infiltrators that means staying far away and hitting stuff with a sniper rifle fast and in the head if possible.


also, just on a little sidenote: the infiltrator cloak doesnt work short range, and if you dont know how to move youll get killed even while cloaked since enemies keep shooting even when youre cloaked, unless there are other targets nearby.

[Edalborez]

No downsides = no skill. Nice to know. I'll have fun being a no-skill wonder while you whine about something that (while it may change) will never go away.

For that matter, I don't need to move my controller if it takes no skill. I'll let my pet cat play. I bet he'll do so good because there is no skill required.

Modifié par Edalborez, 01 juin 2012 - 09:41 .

[Quxorda]

WIthout balistics, it isn't largely. But it's fun.

[DSxCallOfBooty-]

Sniper Rifle DPS is pretty low unless you're getting headshots, which are pretty difficult in this game. Getting those requires a fair bit of skill, at least compared to using an AA. (which don't get me wrong, the AA is a fine class and very useful to a team, but the difficulty in pressing Warp then Throw isn't quite as high as lining up headshots)

Of course, with TC it's a lot easier to get headshots because you aren't being shot at as much, but then again on Gold especially you'll still often get shot at. It's not a hugely skillful activity, but it requires more skill than some other playstyles do.

[jakal66]

Darksaberexile wrote...

Trae ThaThruth wrote...

Also I want to point this out consoles DO NOT have auto aim. It's called auto assist all it does is when you scope in it locks on to sometimes the closest Target to you but it only locks for maybe less then 2secs. It does not follow a target like auto aim does, it does not work if you don't scope in unlike auto aim which works in and out of scope. Reason for a auto assist in console fps games is cuz the response time is slower with a controller then with a mouse. Both PC and consoles still have to aim regardless just console gets a bit of "aid" for a second or 2 due to slower response. Does this make PC players better then console no and it doesn't make console better then pc it just shows the hardware difference simple

Not to mention that the auto assist usually picks a target other than the one you want to shoot at, or at least in my experience it does. Kind of annoying having to aim, have it move my aim completely to a different target, and then aim back at what I wanted to shoot. 

okokok, doesn't assisting you also mean helping you?

Modifié par jakal66, 01 juin 2012 - 09:47 .

[SanguineRose]

I know plenty of people who play as infiltrators, and OP is being COMPLETELY unfair to them. While I'll admit it involves far less skill than some infiltrators think, the raw damage potential of a cloaked javelin shot is beyond useful. Also, that cloak ability comes in mighty handy during objectives, and reviving anyone who slipped up.

[IAMREALITY]

There is so much more to it than that. To be truly effective, your brain has to be like a whirlwind. Timing is so vital to the whole routine. You have to constantly be aware of everything around you. You should be turning thus way, that way, must be completely aware of your surroundings. More than any other setup you have to manage your positioning and defense, because you are far more exposed in between shots during reload. During that time you are completely vulnerable. Any good infiltrator would agree that by and large the game is mental chaos, constantly having to be razor sharp. More than any other class, good infiltrators feel the pressure and burden of having to perform at peak because the team is relying on them to do so. We know our role and that we are being counted on to be the main damage dealers. We take on that responsibility and work our assessment off for you. No, it is not anywhere near as simplistic as you want to demean it to be.

[SinnSly]

It requires no skill.. firing while in cloak does get you a damage bonus..

I use Salarian Infiltraotr because all others suck ass to be honest.

Me - Cloak, Energy Drain then Fire. My simplest strategy =l

Modifié par SinnSly, 01 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[SanguineRose]

...Nor is it anywhere NEAR that complicated. It's just a game, if you're feeling like that, you're probably taking it too seriously.

[DerberAuner]

SanguineRose wrote...

...Nor is it anywhere NEAR that complicated. It's just a game, if you're feeling like that, you're probably taking it too seriously.

or hes, you know, playing on a difficulty where its actually a bit more demanding than some might think.
though i agree, a bit over the top

[SanguineRose]

DerberAuner wrote...

SanguineRose wrote...

...Nor is it anywhere NEAR that complicated. It's just a game, if you're feeling like that, you're probably taking it too seriously.

or hes, you know, playing on a difficulty where its actually a bit more demanding than some might think.
though i agree, a bit over the top

I dunno, I've played an Infiltrator on Gold. Never got like that...

[Edalborez]

A poor sniper will never move because he never has to.
A great sniper will move because he can.

As a general PSA to all would-be Infiltrators: I advise you to learn to play a shotgun Infiltrator first or at some point, even if you intend on sniping. It will teach you the movement skills you will want at all times. You can't sit back and "snipe" with (most) shotguns. You move to favorable positions. When you go back to sniping it will be an eye-opener because, while you can rush over as you did with shotgun, you might not need to.

Many Infiltrators are poor snipers, furthering the prejudice and stereotype of "oh hey Cloak + shoot = win". If you're not constantly killing something, you need to be moving. To do otherwise is a poor use of your class's options. Cloak isn't only to hide, it's also to ambush. That is what makes it tactical. That is why a good Infiltrator takes skill.