214 réponses à ce sujet

[DerberAuner]

GroverA125 wrote...

DerberAuner wrote...

toastar wrote...

The thing with headshots though, and the reason you see so many rubbish Infs sporting BWs, is that the shield Gate negates the use of Headshots with most heavy snipers against most enemies.

I actually get way more headshots playing as a AA stasis-sniper with a M-77 or carnifex than playing as a BW infiltrator.

I still tend to get my 20 HSs as an Inf, but only because sometimes headshots present themselves when shooting enemies behind cover or they're coming up a ramp or are guardians. Sweet, juicy guardians.

no idea about the black widow, dont have that sr yet, play mostly with a viper. also, what do you mean by "shield gate"? the whole stasis bubble thing, i can understand, its not exactly difficult to hit a non moving target

It's a feature that lessens your damage when dealing damage to health under shields. Say you shoot a Centurion, if he has shields, then a percentage of your damage (dependent on your difficulty) will be removed from any damage that hits the health. On gold, it completely removes all health damage when the bullet also hits shields. Meaning that one-shot weapons require two shots to kill shielded units, no matter how much damage you give them.

Note that the Kishock is immune to this feature, and all damage will transfer through to health without any percentage loss.

aaaah thank you, i never noticed that since, as i mentioned earlier i mostly shoot viper, and there its really not that big of a deal if one shot misses or only takes one shield bar.

and to toastar:

youre right, if you can take down your oponent with ONE non headshot and you already have all the headshots, theres no sense in aiming for the head. but i wasnt talking about his case, i was talking about infiltrators who cant pull 20 headshots in one game, which is kind of ridiculous if you ask me....

[NikkoJT]

To simply answer the thread title:
Aiming's a ****.

Oh, and- not all Infiltrators are snipers (Scimitar HI, represent!), and not all snipers are Infiltrators (HSent with a Mantis, reporting in o7).

[gee666]

Head shoting phantoms is not a skill?

[Captain Funky Blimp]

All I know is that I can't hit a damn thing with a sniper rifle. As soon as I scope in on something, they start running around and pretty soon I have a raging headache from trying to track in on anything that isn't already dead. It's sad.

Sniping just isn't for me. Good on those who knock it out all day long.

[rtwebre]

It's not impossible. I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.

[NobleNecromancer]

@DerberAuner

Why should I focus on getting headshots if my sniper rifle can kill any enemy with a body shot(after shields are striped away.)? Focusing on headshots takes more time, which means the enemy is alive longer causing more damage to you and your allies(At least on Gold, on Silver and Bronze I can understand why you would focus more on headshots since you can actually kill things with 1 bullet on those diffculities.). Personally I think that judging people on what kind of medals they have is silly.

Modifié par NobleNecromancer, 01 juin 2012 - 11:12 .

[Drummernate]

If I was having that much trouble getting a headshot medal... I would just switch to the Geth SMG and spray it for a round or two.

[WWNSX]

atum wrote...

A few points from someone who plays a fair amount of SI, (as well as HV, HSe, AA, AJ, AV, DA).

1) Tac Cloak doesnt work if you are close to the enemy, they will see you if you get within a few meters

2) Tac Cloak doesnt immediately render you a non-target. All enemies who were firing on you when you cloaked, or were about to fire on you, will lob one more volley in the last place they saw you.

3) Tac Cloak prevents your shield from recharging while cloaked. Which can be a problem because of #2

4) Not all infiltrators will sit on a perch and snipe from behind an ammo box. Most of us move around.

5) Many infiltrators take great pride in acting like the team medic. And cloak breaks when you revive someone. So it can be tricky to time. And even trickier to get to where your teammate is bleeding out. Many sniper builds are not made for CQC.

6) Many infiltrators take great pride in doing the 4 capture objectives. Another thing that's tricky to time. Use cloak while capturing? Or while getting to the objective?

7) If the team wipes, the infiltrator is *oftentimes* the only one who can finish the round, despite being mostly "seen" while invisible (something to do with being the only one on the map).

8) Aiming definitely matters on PC, (I don't know how consoles work in this regard). On PC there isnt auto-aim (it sounded like people were actually claiming this was the case). There *is* an adjustment to the angles/physics of most ALL weapons so that the shots go when the reticule is pointing. (see the comparison to Proximity Mine for how actual projectiles would work). There is nothing strange about this, and it isnt auto-aiming. It's just how video games work.

9) Quick-scoping is definitely a skill and takes time to get good at.

10) The minimum recharge on Tac Cloak is ~3 seconds, which is an eternity to "Mr Magic Rocket Trooper", a Hunter, a Pyro, a Prime, or a Marauder.


There are definitely skills and tactics to this game. Anyone posting otherwise is full of rubbish.

I pretty much agree with this; I would love to post more but after reading more of the thread it's not a discussion but more of a thinly veiled infiltrator hate thread.

[WaffleCrab]

Look, if you have fun doing this, then more power to you. But I just don't get this claim that it requires a lot of skill. Or any skill for that matter. Do the people claiming this really believe it?

Is spamming auto-aim powers more skillful than manual aiming?

As long as we are talking hit scan weapons and skills(such as ED or OL) they are no different, both are just point and click. But if its skills that require you to actually point elsewhere than the target itself from weapons, falcon, krysae, scorpion, kishock atleast. and from skills the trickier ones, such as carnage, lash(as it is, sometimes gets tricky getting the right angle) and a couple of other similar ones. i think it takes a certain degree of aiming and giving leeway/taking advance to use them. But yeah. the weapons people generally use and the skills, no i dont think either of those requie skills As outside of those, even on PC. you arent really required to aim, your only required to point at the enemy. Now dont confuse aiming people. Aiming is when you need to give some advance and angle for your shot, like kishock, pointing is where you just need to get the desired body part in reticule.

Quick-scoping is definitely a skill and takes time to get good at.

for non hitscan weapons, i agree. on hitscan weapons, no.

Modifié par WaffleCrab, 01 juin 2012 - 11:27 .

[DerberAuner]

NobleNecromancer wrote...

@DerberAuner

Why should I focus on getting headshots if my sniper rifle can kill any enemy with a body shot(after shields are striped away.)? Focusing on headshots takes more time, which means the enemy is alive longer causing more damage to you and your allies. Personally I think that judging people on what kind of medals they have is silly.

ok, let me answer to that in the same way i did earlier (like 2 of my posts ago or so):
1. for 20 hs, which really isnt hard, you get a medal and some extra xp; in a team of 4 people, if everyone gets that medal, thats 8k extra xp, in a bronze match not really difficult, neither in a silver match. in a gold match, well, i dont play gold that often to be honest. but when i do, i usually get the same result.
2.  you are assuming that a non headshot will kill your target, which is simply not true for all sniper rifles.
as ive mentioned twice already, im playing mainly the viper and on gold i need between 3 and 4 shots for a shielded oponent. i will always aim for the head, since my viper doesnt do enough damage otherwise.
3. ive already stated, that in certain situations it is nonsensical to aim for the head.(my previous post i believe)
4. its also a matter of training. if you stop aiming for the head, you will stop hitting it. ive noticed this when i first got my (non black) widow, as i didnt need headshots anymore, i stopped aiming for the head, and my hitrate dropped (on a sidenote: not just my headshot rate dropped, my hitrate in general dropped), note: i was mostly playing bronze at the time

frankly i think its a bit ridiculous not to get 20 headshots in any game.
bronze: if you cant get 20 hs, youre not even trying.
silver: the difficulty is higher, sure, but there are also more enemies and simply based on number you should get those 20 hs
gold: difficulty even higher, but again, number even higher; also, you need the headshots as damageboosts, assuming for the moment you dont have a black widow on level 10

in conclusion, i will judge people on whatever basis i see fit. and those 20 headshots for an infiltrator seem like a pretty solid idea

[Sabbatine]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Look, if you have fun doing this, then more power to you.  But I just don't get this claim that it requires a lot of skill.  Or any skill for that matter.  Do the people claiming this really believe it?

It's always hilarious to me when someone who doesn't step foot outside of bronze games talks about tactical cloak like they know the first thing about it.

I wish it made me invisible, that'd make my life a lot easier.

It's hilarious to me that people like yourself claim that there is no huge advantage to playing with tactical cloak, but they play characters with tactical cloak 95% of the time.

Actually, I made no such claims.  Tactical cloak does offer a huge advantage in the form of a huge damage boost.  It however does not make you invisible on gold in the vast majority of situations against the vast majority of enemies.

Your views about the game are adorable though.  Maybe someday when you grow up and try it out on silver or especially gold you'll realize just how naive your views are.

[toastar]

Who cares for XP anyway?

If you bring a low level Char to a gold match to level him quickly, you either know what you're doing, and don't need those for few XP from me getting HSs, or I'm carrying you anyway so you take what you get and live with it.

[zRz Tyr]

Creakazoid wrote...

Is spamming auto-aim powers more skillful than manual aiming?

This. Your argument is invalid.

[NobleNecromancer]

DerberAuner wrote...
1. for 20 hs, which really isnt hard, you get a medal and some extra xp; in a team of 4 people, if everyone gets that medal, thats 8k extra xp, in a bronze match not really difficult, neither in a silver match. in a gold match, well, i dont play gold that often to be honest. but when i do, i usually get the same result.

I must apologize, but I was talking about Gold most of the time, and medals and xp does nothing on a level 20 character. Tho I did edited my post saying that headshots are more viable on Silver and Bronze since they are aren't as affected by Shield Gate.

2.  you are assuming that a non headshot will kill your target, which is simply not true for all sniper rifles.
as ive mentioned twice already, im playing mainly the viper and on gold i need between 3 and 4 shots for a shielded oponent. i will always aim for the head, since my viper doesnt do enough damage otherwise.

I know that the viper and a few other sniper rifles can not kill with just a body shot, but that wasn't my point, my point was why should I focus on headshots with a sniper rifle that can kill with body shots(1 shot to kill without shields I mean.)?

4. its also a matter of training. if you stop aiming for the head, you will stop hitting it. ive noticed this when i first got my (non black) widow, as i didnt need headshots anymore, i stopped aiming for the head, and my hitrate dropped (on a sidenote: not just my headshot rate dropped, my hitrate in general dropped), note: i was mostly playing bronze at the time

Different experiences then, because when I stopped aiming for the head, my hitrate increased dramatically, mostly because the body is larger and eaiser to hit then the head.

frankly i think its a bit ridiculous not to get 20 headshots in any game.

To me is depends on the game and the gun you are using, but in this game with a viper I can understand going for headshots, but with soimething like the Javelin I don't understand why you should focus on headshots.

in conclusion, i will judge people on whatever basis i see fit. and those 20 headshots for an infiltrator seem like a pretty solid idea

You are free to do so, I just personally think it is silly to do so(as I previously stated.).

[gxkrizard]

OP is correct. As a sniper, I always top the scoreboard, never die and revive almost everyone/do every objective. It's basically a cat walk, no skill nor equipment required.
But today I wanted to play as a mid-distance Vorcha and man that was difficult. I had to use at least one revive per match and wasn't even that good if compared to others.

Avoiding brute while trying to kill ravage who is going to kill you in the next three seconds, then running from every monster on the field, because your infi friends are invisible most of the time. That's the skill.

[TheSevered]

DerberAuner wrote...

ok, let me answer to that in the same way i did earlier (like 2 of my posts ago or so):
1. for 20 hs, which really isnt hard, you get a medal and some extra xp; in a team of 4 people, if everyone gets that medal, thats 8k extra xp, in a bronze match not really difficult, neither in a silver match. in a gold match, well, i dont play gold that often to be honest. but when i do, i usually get the same result.
2.  you are assuming that a non headshot will kill your target, which is simply not true for all sniper rifles.
as ive mentioned twice already, im playing mainly the viper and on gold i need between 3 and 4 shots for a shielded oponent. i will always aim for the head, since my viper doesnt do enough damage otherwise.
3. ive already stated, that in certain situations it is nonsensical to aim for the head.(my previous post i believe)
4. its also a matter of training. if you stop aiming for the head, you will stop hitting it. ive noticed this when i first got my (non black) widow, as i didnt need headshots anymore, i stopped aiming for the head, and my hitrate dropped (on a sidenote: not just my headshot rate dropped, my hitrate in general dropped), note: i was mostly playing bronze at the time

frankly i think its a bit ridiculous not to get 20 headshots in any game.
bronze: if you cant get 20 hs, youre not even trying.
silver: the difficulty is higher, sure, but there are also more enemies and simply based on number you should get those 20 hs
gold: difficulty even higher, but again, number even higher; also, you need the headshots as damageboosts, assuming for the moment you dont have a black widow on level 10

in conclusion, i will judge people on whatever basis i see fit. and those 20 headshots for an infiltrator seem like a pretty solid idea

Head shots are unreliable on Reapers. I've busted the faces off countless cannibals and gotten nothing. Maurders on the other hand have to have the most broken ass hit box in the game for their heads. Full on cloaked Widow X shot right between their stupid eyes and they just stagger away with half their health left.

[WaffleCrab]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

landylan wrote...

how is "quick scoping" skill when there is an auto aim feature

Because the auto-aim feature in this game is trash and more often than not will point you at a swarmer than at the Marauder you were looking straight at.

gee666 wrote...

Head shoting phantoms is not a skill?

QFT

^this

[DeathIsHere]

Ikilledkillab wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

OniGanon wrote...

Please explain how spamming auto-aiming powers is a skillful activity.

Please explain how hitting someone from 10ft range with a giant circle for an aiming reticule is a skillful activity.

Please explain how aiming in the general direction of your enemy and holding the trigger down until it's dead is a skillful activity.

Please stop trying to deflect attention from the topic at hand.  The question was not about those things.  It is specifically about the cloaked infiltrator sniper.

Exactly, they are conceding that sniping takes no skill. Essentially the response is "well spamming powers requires no skill either". They are offering a red herring argument. Welcome to the world of logical fallacies.

Or maybe they're pointing out things to you that take even less skill than sniping. Because with sniping, you actually have to...you know, aim. You don't get powers that can fly around cover or just automatically hit the enemy, you have to aim your gun and hope they don't move before you fire. Your blind hatred for infiltrators is making you hate something that isn't unique to infiltrators. If you want to hate on infiltrators that either A) don't help with objectives as they're good at doing or  cloak way too often and get you swarmed, hey. More power to ya'. But sniping, even when cloaked, does actually take skill (especially when enemies can somehow magically know you're scoping them and move out of the way) and all the blind hate you want to throw at it won't change that. Of course, I'm sure this is just a red herring argument right? Another fallacy because it proves you wrong?

[Soggy-Snake-]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

Okay, I'll concede that I don't play much Gold, so it might be a different story there.  My opinion is mostly based from what I see in Silver, which is why I asked, because maybe there's more to it than it seems.

There's your problem right there. People must be killing things before you can melee them. So...get better I guess.

I also like the fact that if someone is an Infiltrator they must only play that class and no other. I can score just as well with an Adept as an Infiltrator. Scoring 100k with a SE is a piece of cake, Human Vanguards are point scoring machines etc. It depends completely on the user.

People just get upset because proper Infiltrators can get the job done before they can. Cloak shoot, Warp Throw, Decoy ED/Incinerate, Melee - press one button. None of that require much 'skill' in your terms.

[IBPROFEN]

gee666 wrote...

Head shoting phantoms is not a skill?

 I like sniping their long blade then they don't insta-kill you or teammates. I  think that take some skill.

[Atheosis]

DSxCallOfBooty- wrote...

Sniper Rifle DPS is pretty low unless you're getting headshots

Until you increase it with a 130% bonus.  

[Xerorei]

Atheosis wrote...

DSxCallOfBooty- wrote...

Sniper Rifle DPS is pretty low unless you're getting headshots

Until you increase it with a 130% bonus.  

It's still low then, in gold body shots don't matter much, head shots matter a LOT.

Against constantly moving enemies lining up a shot and suceeding take skill.

At least you don't have to account for gravitational pull, wind velocity and bullet drift in this game, well with most SRs anyway, with the kryase you do.

[danby]

I enjoy sniping, and infiltrator snipers can definitely turn a bad situation around real quick. Some games i get a lower kill count because im protecting my squad mates by taking out phantoms, flame troopers, engeneers, turrets ect. The widow can do some major damage even on gold.

There is skill involved though. You miss the shot and its about 3 seconds before you get anouther. The widow is so heavy that i perfer to bring only it. Sometimes i'll bring a light smg or hand gun for the swarmers.

I usually carry out the hacking missions or assassination missions. I try to get us the maximum money.

[toastar]

Xerorei wrote...

It's still low then, in gold body shots don't matter much, head shots matter a LOT.

Actually, in gold, headshots only matter in rare cases, if you carry more than a pea-shooter, that is.