210 réponses à ce sujet

[Mal3fact0r]

Immortal Strife wrote...

Nerf Everything! or just create a platinum difficulty, with the added gear, Gold has become a joke. I have a 100% success rate now when I play with my friends, even if we have only 3 or 2 players.

That's the point of my post regarding grenades and the Reegar, once the nerfing starts it has a snowball effect. Once something deemed "overpowered" gets nerfed, something else takes it's place, and we end up with an endless cycle of nerfs. Thankfully, no one on these forums is in charge of balancing this game, judging by some of the posts here, Infiltrators would be total garbage and <insert their favorite class here> would be the "best".

[Immortal Strife]

Mal3fact0r wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

So now you want to gimp the Infiltrator class which is designed to do burst damage. Take notice of the infiltrator's powers; they are garbage compared to all the other classes with the exception of tactical cloak. If you gimp the damage on TC, infiltrators will be reduced to medics and objective cappers. The infiltrator is the most popular class, nerfing the class would only reduce the popularity of multiplayer. Nerfing the Infiltrator class would make the forume be filled with upset fans. If you think the forumes are bad now, nerf infiltrator and see what happens.

I don't want to see Infiltrators nerfed, but according to Bioware's own stats, Soldier is the most played class. I think a lot of people here don't realize that forum goers are a tiny minority of people playing the game. What they don't want to do is anger or drive away the majority of players to satisfy the demands of the few, a tough balancing act to be sure.

Correct, I saw that stat too; however, that is not the case for Gold and the usage percentage of soldiers and infiltrators was very close-they are hardly the minority.

I fully endorse another soldier buff.

[No Snakes Alive]

OP does not mean that anyone who picks it up under any circumstance will own with it. It only means that used properly under the right circumstances it trivializes the game. The logic behind this thread and that entire argument is jut completely asinine.

Take fighting games for example. Before one of the earlier patches, Kabal was OP in the new Mortal Kombat because he had a blockstring infinite. When someone pulled it off, their opponent either got chipped to death blocking or had to release block to eat a full combo. 90% of players could not even pull off that blockstring if they tried, but that didn't mean it was any less of an immediate nerf priority for the developers.

Granted, fighting games operate differently and nerfing isn't usually as dire in cooperative settings, but balance still exists to a certain extent and "overpowered" still means the same thing. It doesn't mean some scrub can pick up the gun and clear Gold with it automatically without knowing what they're doing, but it does mean that putting a Krysae in the hands of an Infiltrator with the right equipment makes Gold retarded easy. If it's only overpowered in certain circumstances but those circumstances CAN be replicated by anyone who tries hard enough, then it's overpowered PERIOD.


Edit: And for the record, that does not mean I wish to see it or any other weapon/character nerfed; it's just being objective. Just because something is a bit more overpowered than something else in a cooperative setting doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. If people want to use this gun because they find it fun or need something overpowered to top the scoreboards, good for them. Doesn't phase me or my experience with the game.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 03 juin 2012 - 05:46 .

[Immortal Strife]

Mal3fact0r wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

Nerf Everything! or just create a platinum difficulty, with the added gear, Gold has become a joke. I have a 100% success rate now when I play with my friends, even if we have only 3 or 2 players.

That's the point of my post regarding grenades and the Reegar, once the nerfing starts it has a snowball effect. Once something deemed "overpowered" gets nerfed, something else takes it's place, and we end up with an endless cycle of nerfs. Thankfully, no one on these forums is in charge of balancing this game, judging by some of the posts here, Infiltrators would be total garbage and <insert their favorite class here> would be the "best".

Exactly. Bioware has been doing a great job with the weekly balances IMO.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 03 juin 2012 - 05:43 .

[The Milky Waver]

Agreed. People are just butthurt that some infiltrator is getting more points than them.

[Mal3fact0r]

Immortal Strife wrote...

Mal3fact0r wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

So now you want to gimp the Infiltrator class which is designed to do burst damage. Take notice of the infiltrator's powers; they are garbage compared to all the other classes with the exception of tactical cloak. If you gimp the damage on TC, infiltrators will be reduced to medics and objective cappers. The infiltrator is the most popular class, nerfing the class would only reduce the popularity of multiplayer. Nerfing the Infiltrator class would make the forume be filled with upset fans. If you think the forumes are bad now, nerf infiltrator and see what happens.

I don't want to see Infiltrators nerfed, but according to Bioware's own stats, Soldier is the most played class. I think a lot of people here don't realize that forum goers are a tiny minority of people playing the game. What they don't want to do is anger or drive away the majority of players to satisfy the demands of the few, a tough balancing act to be sure.

Correct, I saw that stat too; however, that is not the case for Gold and the usage percentage of soldiers and infiltrators was very close-they are hardly the minority.

I fully endorse another soldier buff.

I would have no problem with Soldiers getting more buffs either. And by minority I didn't mean Infiltrators are a minority, I meant forum-goers are, relative to the total population playing.

[Immortal Strife]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

OP does not mean that anyone who picks it up under any circumstance will own with it. It only means that used properly under the right circumstances it trivializes the game. The logic behind this thread and that entire argument is jut completely asinine.

Take fighting games for example. Before one of the earlier patches, Kabal was OP in the new Mortal Kombat because he had a blockstring infinite. When someone pulled it off, their opponent either got chipped to death blocking or had to release block to eat a full combo. 90% of players could not even pull off that blockstring if they tried, but that didn't mean it was any less of an immediate nerf priority for the developers.

Granted, fighting games operate differently and nerfing isn't usually as dire in cooperative settings, but balance still exists to a certain extent and "overpowered" still means the same thing. It doesn't mean some scrub can pick up the gun and clear Gold with it automatically without knowing what they're doing, but it does mean that putting a Krysae in the hands of an Infiltrator with the right equipment makes Gold retarded easy. If it's only overpowered in certain circumstances but those circumstances CAN be replicated by anyone who tries hard enough, then it's overpowered PERIOD.

Well said.

[InfamousResult]

The Milky Waver wrote...

Agreed. People are just butthurt that some infiltrator is getting more points than them.

Um, a lot of the people asking for a Nerf tried the game out with the Krysae because they wanted to use the gun. Then found that it was overpowered. You're making a kneejerk accusation. Like, "you're just butthurt because you KNOW it's overpowered and requires no skill and you don't want Bioware taking away your Cruise Control Cannon".

[Immortal Strife]

Mal3fact0r wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

Mal3fact0r wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

So now you want to gimp the Infiltrator class which is designed to do burst damage. Take notice of the infiltrator's powers; they are garbage compared to all the other classes with the exception of tactical cloak. If you gimp the damage on TC, infiltrators will be reduced to medics and objective cappers. The infiltrator is the most popular class, nerfing the class would only reduce the popularity of multiplayer. Nerfing the Infiltrator class would make the forume be filled with upset fans. If you think the forumes are bad now, nerf infiltrator and see what happens.

I don't want to see Infiltrators nerfed, but according to Bioware's own stats, Soldier is the most played class. I think a lot of people here don't realize that forum goers are a tiny minority of people playing the game. What they don't want to do is anger or drive away the majority of players to satisfy the demands of the few, a tough balancing act to be sure.

Correct, I saw that stat too; however, that is not the case for Gold and the usage percentage of soldiers and infiltrators was very close-they are hardly the minority.

I fully endorse another soldier buff.

I would have no problem with Soldiers getting more buffs either. And by minority I didn't mean Infiltrators are a minority, I meant forum-goers are, relative to the total population playing.

Ahh true.  Let's hope that they do not listen to the minority then, because if infiltrators are nerfed, the minority will make their voices heard all over the forume.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 03 juin 2012 - 05:53 .

[d_Mr_Hyde_b]

DeathMotion- wrote...

 Trust me it's not,either that or it got nerfed.Try it without using the infiltrator,I went for the engineer Quarian Male.It takes 2 shots to kill an assault trooper for a sniper rifle.Takes FOREVER to kill an atlas but yes.It's not overpowered.

The infiltrator just gives it an extra boost and if THAT gets nerfed then sorry bioware but you'll have to fix their invisiblity to not be seen when you're solo or very close to the enemies.

also takes 2 shots to kill a entire spawn of assult troopers

[Ultenth]

Plain and simple, it and the Reegar are both very OP, and I'm sure will be nerfed.  Have fun with them for now and just enjoy the moment, but yeah, I doubt they will let them stay as ridiculous as they are right now.

[Mal3fact0r]

I'm sure BioWare are smart enough to first check if the new weapons are performing as they initially intended, and are not "over-performing" due to bugs or a messed up value somewhere. If that is the case (and it's quite possible since the Krysae, for example, doesn't seem to be penetrating armor as advertised) then fixing those problems is the first step, then take another look at them once things are working as intended.

Of course, they might just nerf the new guns to the ground, adding to the growing pile of weapons no one uses. /shrug

Modifié par Mal3fact0r, 03 juin 2012 - 06:08 .

[No Snakes Alive]

PensCeltsFan wrote...

I dont think its OP
I suck with it, if it were OP, i (and everybody else) would be unstoppable using it

Fallacy of logic.

Here's the argument: If you're capable of properly utilizing this weapon, it's OP.

From that follows only: IF this gun is not OP, you're not capable of utilizing it properly.

You're reversing the clauses and somehow trying to argue that it logically follows that this gun is not OP if you're not capable of utilizing it properly. That makes NO sense whatsoever.

Maybe one day you'll go to college and get a chance to take Philosophy 101 and learn about logic and see the error of your ways. Until then it still stands that: though this gun may not be OP in your incapable little hands, it is in the right ones.

Whether or not that means it should be nerfed is an entirely different matter. I think, like others have stated, that the "problem" if there is one lies within the design of the Infiltrator class. Usually the design philosophy behind a rogue/backstab class is the highest possible single target burst damage. Somehow that single target concept got away from them at Bioware and they ended up with Geth Infiltrators that can melt entire spawns in a second with AoE debuff powers, an AoE melee, and a Cloak that buffs blanket damage output rather than just the damage of single target weapons like the Sniper Rifle (though that concept isn't lost entirely as that evolution is still in there, but overshadowed now by other builds for the most part), and AoE weapons that demolish everything in an Infiltrator's hands. The damage boost the class gets in general trivializes Gold for the most part, and not just with a Krysae.

So yes, I think Bioware messed up a bit, but I don't think it ruins my experience at all. I'm not crying for nerfs, and it actually makes me feel like I've accomplished even more when I can outscore Krysae-toting Infiltrators with other classes (or at least hang with them for the most part).

This many classes, weapons, powers, etc and SOMETHING'S always going to end up OP. It always does. Move on and use other combinations if you can't stand that, folks.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 03 juin 2012 - 06:05 .

[Snake241079]

The only enemies I noticed it does own against are Phantoms. Man it destroys them. Otherwise its a great weapon but not in need of a nerf. To me I've noticed that its only really brutal with a Geth Infiltrator who's spec'd specifically for sniping and weapon damage. I can't do squat with my Salarian Infiltrator with it yet can destroy with my GI. If they nerf it I'll be mad, its not needed. My score tends to stay within a couple hundred above who is second place whereas if I use my Valiant with the same class its thousands more. And I've become pretty good with it.

[ryoldschool]

InfamousResult wrote...

The Milky Waver wrote...

Agreed. People are just butthurt that some infiltrator is getting more points than them.

Um, a lot of the people asking for a Nerf tried the game out with the Krysae because they wanted to use the gun. Then found that it was overpowered. You're making a kneejerk accusation. Like, "you're just butthurt because you KNOW it's overpowered and requires no skill and you don't want Bioware taking away your Cruise Control Cannon".

I don't care how many times you post this, I will continue to post that it depends on the player.   Its not OP for me - I do just as well as with the claymore.  There is no doubt that it is easier to use once you get used to it, but I can do just as well with a claymore on my GI.

Also, people have posted OP speed runs on gold with the right PEOPLE with existing weapons

gold run with 4 GIxClaymore

> 4x Geth Infiltrators with Claymore shotguns.
> Gear maxed out for even more weapon damage than Cloak and passives give.
> Maximize rocket usage for the best possible clear time.
> Hopes that Hack Circle objective won't spawn. 

[No Snakes Alive]

ryoldschool wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

The Milky Waver wrote...

Agreed. People are just butthurt that some infiltrator is getting more points than them.

Um, a lot of the people asking for a Nerf tried the game out with the Krysae because they wanted to use the gun. Then found that it was overpowered. You're making a kneejerk accusation. Like, "you're just butthurt because you KNOW it's overpowered and requires no skill and you don't want Bioware taking away your Cruise Control Cannon".

I don't care how many times you post this, I will continue to post that it depends on the player.   Its not OP for me - I do just as well as with the claymore.  There is no doubt that it is easier to use once you get used to it, but I can do just as well with a claymore on my GI.

Also, people have posted OP speed runs on gold with the right PEOPLE with existing weapons

gold run with 4 GIxClaymore

> 4x Geth Infiltrators with Claymore shotguns.
> Gear maxed out for even more weapon damage than Cloak and passives give.
> Maximize rocket usage for the best possible clear time.
> Hopes that Hack Circle objective won't spawn. 

The assumption that because Gun Y can also do just as well as Gun X it follows that Gun X isn't overpowered is another fallacy of logic. To return to my Mortal Kombat example, Sonya also had a blockstring infinite that got nerfed. The fact that you could do that with Sonya pre-patch takes nothing away from the fact that you could also do it with Kabal. Both characters were OP because blockstring infinites are OP.

So in this game, maybe the assumption to make is that both the Claymore and Krysae are OP in the hands of an Infiltrator because the Infiltrator class is OP.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 03 juin 2012 - 06:11 .

[ryoldschool]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

PensCeltsFan wrote...

I dont think its OP
I suck with it, if it were OP, i (and everybody else) would be unstoppable using it

Fallacy of logic.

Here's the argument: If you're capable of properly utilizing this weapon, it's OP.

From that follows only: IF this gun is not OP, you're not capable of utilizing it properly.

You're reversing the clauses and somehow trying to argue that it logically follows that this gun is not OP if you're not capable of utilizing it properly. That makes NO sense whatsoever.

Maybe one day you'll go to college and get a chance to take Philosophy 101 and learn about logic and see the error of your ways. Until then it still stands that: though this gun may not be OP in your incapable little hands, it is in the right ones.

Whether or not that means it should be nerfed is an entirely different matter. I think, like others have stated, that the "problem" if there is one lies within the design of the Infiltrator class. Usually the design philosophy behind a rogue/backstab class is the highest possible single target burst damage. Somehow that single target concept got away from them at Bioware and they ended up with Geth Infiltrators that can melt entire spawns in a second with AoE debuff powers, an AoE melee, and a Cloak that buffs blanket damage output rather than just the damage of single target weapons like the Sniper Rifle (though that concept isn't lost entirely as that evolution is still in there, but overshadowed now by other builds for the most part), and AoE weapons that demolish everything in an Infiltrator's hands. The damage boost the class gets in general trivializes Gold for the most part, and not just with a Krysae.

So yes, I think Bioware messed up a bit, but I don't think it ruins my experience at all. I'm not crying for nerfs, and it actually makes me feel like I've accomplished even more when I can outscore Krysae-toting Infiltrators with other classes (or at least hang with them for the most part).

This many classes, weapons, powers, etc and SOMETHING'S always going to end up OP. It always does. Move on and use other combinations if you can't stand that, folks.

Well, see my post about the Claymore speed run.  So the claymore is overpowered by your logic?

[InfamousResult]

ryoldschool wrote...

I don't care how many times you post this, I will continue to post that it depends on the player.

And?

Most things depend on the player. Bad guns can be better than some good guns, when a good player is set next to a bad player. I could say that the Black Widow is a terrible gun and needs to be Buffed.. if I just sit there and shoot up in the sky.

But the Krysae, in the majority of cases, will make the game MUCH easier for MOST people with less effort required- and, in fact, diminishes even the Gold difficulty.

[No Snakes Alive]

ryoldschool wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

PensCeltsFan wrote...

I dont think its OP
I suck with it, if it were OP, i (and everybody else) would be unstoppable using it

Fallacy of logic.

Here's the argument: If you're capable of properly utilizing this weapon, it's OP.

From that follows only: IF this gun is not OP, you're not capable of utilizing it properly.

You're reversing the clauses and somehow trying to argue that it logically follows that this gun is not OP if you're not capable of utilizing it properly. That makes NO sense whatsoever.

Maybe one day you'll go to college and get a chance to take Philosophy 101 and learn about logic and see the error of your ways. Until then it still stands that: though this gun may not be OP in your incapable little hands, it is in the right ones.

Whether or not that means it should be nerfed is an entirely different matter. I think, like others have stated, that the "problem" if there is one lies within the design of the Infiltrator class. Usually the design philosophy behind a rogue/backstab class is the highest possible single target burst damage. Somehow that single target concept got away from them at Bioware and they ended up with Geth Infiltrators that can melt entire spawns in a second with AoE debuff powers, an AoE melee, and a Cloak that buffs blanket damage output rather than just the damage of single target weapons like the Sniper Rifle (though that concept isn't lost entirely as that evolution is still in there, but overshadowed now by other builds for the most part), and AoE weapons that demolish everything in an Infiltrator's hands. The damage boost the class gets in general trivializes Gold for the most part, and not just with a Krysae.

So yes, I think Bioware messed up a bit, but I don't think it ruins my experience at all. I'm not crying for nerfs, and it actually makes me feel like I've accomplished even more when I can outscore Krysae-toting Infiltrators with other classes (or at least hang with them for the most part).

This many classes, weapons, powers, etc and SOMETHING'S always going to end up OP. It always does. Move on and use other combinations if you can't stand that, folks.

Well, see my post about the Claymore speed run.  So the claymore is overpowered by your logic?

See my post above this. When they can take an Atlas down in two pulls of the trigger on Gold, I probably would say they're overpowered. But it's probably moreso because the class using both weapons to that degree of overpoweredness is overpowered itself.

But at least the Claymore sticks to single target burst damage for the most part, which is the main philosophy behind this type of class. The Krysae blows up everything in a decent AoE radius, which puts it more on par with the Geth Infiltrators melee. Doesn't matter what gun you put in that class's hand: 4 Geth Infiltrators with Eagle I's and Shurikens that know what they're doing could probably put out a speedrun too.

[Mal3fact0r]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

The Milky Waver wrote...

Agreed. People are just butthurt that some infiltrator is getting more points than them.

Um, a lot of the people asking for a Nerf tried the game out with the Krysae because they wanted to use the gun. Then found that it was overpowered. You're making a kneejerk accusation. Like, "you're just butthurt because you KNOW it's overpowered and requires no skill and you don't want Bioware taking away your Cruise Control Cannon".

I don't care how many times you post this, I will continue to post that it depends on the player.   Its not OP for me - I do just as well as with the claymore.  There is no doubt that it is easier to use once you get used to it, but I can do just as well with a claymore on my GI.

Also, people have posted OP speed runs on gold with the right PEOPLE with existing weapons

gold run with 4 GIxClaymore

> 4x Geth Infiltrators with Claymore shotguns.
> Gear maxed out for even more weapon damage than Cloak and passives give.
> Maximize rocket usage for the best possible clear time.
> Hopes that Hack Circle objective won't spawn. 

The assumption that because Gun Y can also do just as well as Gun X it follows that Gun X isn't overpowered is another fallacy of logic. To return to my Mortal Kombat example, Sonya also had a blockstring infinite that got nerfed. The fact that you could do that with Sonya pre-patch takes nothing away from the fact that you could also do it with Kabal. Both characters were OP because blockstring infinites are OP.

So in this game, maybe the assumption to make is that both the Claymore and Krysae are OP in the hands of an Infiltrator because the Infiltrator class is OP.

The Infiltrator, or the Geth Infiltrator? which is more powerful (by a fairly large degree) than it's brethren.

Modifié par Mal3fact0r, 03 juin 2012 - 06:22 .

[Holy-Hamster]

The krysae is overpowered on an infiltrator. The splash damage should not be able to one shot things from behind cover. It requires almost no aiming, you can spray and pray. On maps like jade it's pretty hilarious as you can start shooting when things spawn pretty easily and just blow them all up.

The reegar is pretty overpowered on an infiltrator and I would wager to say vanguard as well. Mostly because they're both able to close the range gap with very little penalty.

Personally I'd like to see cloak seperated in such a way that you have a seperate ability for damage boost and yet allow infiltrators to keep cloak (their signature move). Just don't allow them to fire while cloaked. You can still use it to move around and revive people, just not fire from safety.

That wouldn't really fix the gun though, I liked the other suggestion of just making it an assault rifle. It's basically a mini rocket launcher on the infiltrator. But it doesn't matter to me a whole lot in the end anyway, I've stopped using it as it seems to really cheese the game for me. I'll leave if another infiltrator is using it, but that's my decision. People can play how they want.

[ajburges]

I won't dignify this with argument.

I will vote that Krysae needs to be less effective on sniper infiltrators. The air-burst, shield-gate ignore, fire-rate, and damage all together make an overpowering package. It outperforms every sniper rifle. (Superior mob killing, Phantom owning, and comparable boss damage)

Additionally the griefing potential (killing Krogan/Vorcha targets, disrupting combo attacks) is out of control.

BTW for the only OP on infiltrator crowd: do you ever see non-infiltrators use this gun?

Reegar has similar (but not as bad) problems 10K (21K with cloak) damage a clip for a is a little much for a non-rifle

Modifié par ajburges, 03 juin 2012 - 06:20 .

[Yigorse]

 I don't even feel it's that overpowered on an infiltrator, I can score considerably higher with a Black Widow, let alone the actually OP Valiant.

[No Snakes Alive]

And just clarify, before people take what I say out of context, I think both the Infiltrator AND Krysae are overpowered in their own right, and combined are just even more so (but again, do not think they're so bad they need to be nerfed, as neither affects my own gameplay experience).

To me, the entire design philosophy of the gun is OP: here, let's aim for you and make everything explode. It trivializes solo Gold runs on other classes too, not just Infiltrators. Male Quarian Egineers and Drell Adepts and so on can also breeze through matches with it too. So I find the gun retarded, personally, but so what? To each his own.

[Dormiglione]

RGFrog wrote...

Dormiglione wrote...

a9fc wrote...

Just came from a gold game with 2 geth + Krysaes.

Didn't need to do much.

Don't understand how we could have lost to the reapers lol

Same here, was in a gold match with 3 Salarian using Energy Drain and the Krysae. It was fun to sit back, had not really much to do, just a couple of revive, a few kills and countless assists.

So the Krysae is not overpowered?

Here's what I read: It's not that the Krys is OP or that Inf's are OP, I'm just rage mad that I chose the wrong character for the team dynamic and so all I could do was assist and revive. I want to the the hero!!!! Nerf everything until I'm the best player as it should be.

Seems that you get something wrong. I enjoyed standing back and got my xp and credits with no effort. Weapons need some balance. Yes a ultrarare should be stronger than a rare or a common, but you need some balance. The Krysae is overpowered in my opinion. But i have no problem with player using it in silver or gold.
When someone use it in bronze, then i know for sure that i dont have to use any missiles.