Questa discussione ha avuto 473 risposte

[Burnouts3s3]

 I fully support the idea of homosexual options in video
games. This is not a homophobic rant against bisexuals or homosexuals. This is
not a tirade against homosexuality, but rather a personal insight that I hope
leads into an intellectual discussion. Whatever your preference in real life or
in virtual life, I fully support.

During what we saw in Dragon Age 2, we’ve seen a number of
romantic options open up for Hawke. We’ve seen that either male or female, he
could romance anybody he chose to. The exception of course is Sebastian, (who
oddly doesn’t feel like a romantic option given his dedication to Andraste).
However, is this option really about promoting equal rights and sexuality to
all gamers or is it a technique used in order to gain more fans toward the
character?

“Well, you don’t have to romance them. You can just be their
friend. What’s wrong with options?”

Nothing. There’s nothing wrong with having the option to do
so. However, when the options are too open, when the things male Hawke can do
are the same as Female Hawke, where is the difference in the two?

“But you get different lines of dialogue when you’re this
gender.”

True. Bioware has been very good at this case, but that’s
the only difference. A line of dialogue. 

“What if bisexuality is part of the companion?”

It can be part of the companion, but it shouldn’t be their
only defining trait. Their experiences, their struggles and their reactions as
well as their sexual orientation make up part of them. I think by making
certain characters strictly straight/gay adds more to their character than
having them be with whoever wants them. I am making an argument that by making
certain, not all, companions exclusive in their sexual orientation, it will
encourage more reason to make new characters and thus, add more to the
gameplay.

Simply put: Gender does not matter in this case. Any Hawke
can complete a character’s romantic tree by simply loading an old save fire,
accessing that and going through the game again. It hinders much of the play
though as the player is now more focused on getting a character’s romantic
tree.

There’s almost no encouragement that the player will make a
new character with a new gender. Everything is the same in the first play
through with the same options. The great idea behind Origins was how varied the
play through was and while some options were open to them, another time,
different options would be closed to them.

This is one of the major factors of what made Origins great.
A woman ‘couldn’t’ impregnate Morrigan with the Old God and had to go to
Alistair or Loghain in order to do it. Gender should be a huge factor in play through
and how the game is played.

Consider Mass Effect’s Steve Cortez and Samantha Traynor.

Both characters can only be romanced by a Shepard of the
same gender. They cannot be romanced by different gendered Shepard, regardless
of how much they talked to them. This may seem limiting but it actually
encourages the player to go to another playthrough and make a different
Shepard, this time allowing them to explore more of the game.

To me, it would cheapen a companion if the Player could romance
anybody and land with anybody. Sometimes, a platonic relationship with a
companion gives you more insight of what they offer.

Once again, I fully support the idea of homosexual options
in video games. But that doesn’t mean exclusivity in relationships can’t
encourage more explorations, more characters and more options. Not everything has
to be available in one playthrough. That’s what makes a game like Dragon Age
fun.

[CuriousArtemis]

I understand where you are coming from and I do believe that you are not homophobic or what have you, as so many people who start these kinds of threads are (often without realizing it).

But I think it comes down to preference and that's all. I was annoyed when I couldn't romance Alistair with my male Warden; personally I don't think Alistair being straight added anything to his character. I would have preferred if he were gay for my Warden and straight for someone else's

Now I recently played ME3 and I do agree that sexuality added to the characters; I felt that Trayner and Cortez were sooo incredibly refreshing as characters. So I get that.

But I know if there had been a hot guy that was only available to FemShep I would have been annoyed regardless. Luckily, there wasn't

So, I hear you. But I'm greedy

[brushyourteeth]

I just really miss my gay buddy Steve.

motomotogirl wrote...

*snip*
Now I recently played ME3 and I do agree that sexuality added to the characters; I felt that Trayner and Cortez were sooo incredibly refreshing as characters. So I get that.

*snip*

So, I hear you. But I'm greedy

I am so glad that someone is saying this besides me. Maybe as an easy compromise (meaning the best of both worlds and everybody wins, which is even better than a compromise) DAIII could have some gay non-romanceable NPC's?

[PinkDiamondstl]

Like Anders for a start . He should't have been bi.

[nightscrawl]

Burnouts3s3 wrote...

There’s almost no encouragement that the player will make a
new character with a new gender. Everything is the same in the first play
through with the same options. The great idea behind Origins was how varied the
play through was and while some options were open to them, another time,
different options would be closed to them.

It depends on the player. You assume that just because Origins forced you into making a male character if you wanted to romance Morrigan that all players did that despite not wanting to make a male character for other reasons. There are people, myself included, that like to play the same game with perhaps one or two differences in each play.

My very first DAO character -- all of these are complete plays, discounting any partial plays to look at different origins -- was a dwarven noble female warrior who did not romance anyone. My second character was a human female mage who romanced Alistair. My third was a human female Cousland warrior who romanced Alistair. All characters from that point onward (two or three I think) were all human female mages who romanced Alistair. The human female mage who romances Alistair is my cannon play and the one I prefer to play by far. Sure, I'll make some minor adjustments with respect to Behlen/Harrowmont, or saving Amaranthine vs Vigil's Keep in DAA, various things like that, but they are all primarily the same game for me.

The primary reason I do that with DAO is that if I am going to invest 85 hours into a game (my longest play of DAO/DAA and all DLC) I'm going to make damn sure I'm going to enjoy it, so I leave little room for experimentation. I seldom eat at restaurants. If I go to a favorite place I'll order something I know I'll like or have had there before because it's a rare treat and I don't want to waste the time or money on the off chance that I will be disappointed.

With DA2 it's a bit different. Being a much shorter game I've felt freer to experiment with romances, story consequences, friendship/rivalry, and Hawke gender and class than I did with DAO. In addition, the male Hawke VA in combination with the way I make him look is simply much more appealing to me than making a male character ever was in DAO.

I make my DAO human female mage look the same every time. I make my female Hawkes look the same every time, the only difference being hair style and eye color that change respective of class, but each of those classes are the same every time. I make a male Hawke look the same every time. It's just how I do things. I'm sure there are people who think that strange, but I enjoy playing that way.

[sylvanaerie]

I liked having the option to romance them male or female. With DAO, since I romanced almost exclusively Alistair, I only made female characters. I played 1 male Cousland who romanced Leliana and married Anora I consider a 'viable playthrough'. The rest of the game it was always Alistair regardless of which origin I played even though other options were available. Had Alistair been a straight female it would have all been male wardens. If anything, having some straight/some bi options LIMITED my creativity.

With DA2, I've played and equally enjoyed male, female Hawkes (I think Nicholas Bolton's voice is sexy--so that probably has something to do with my enjoyment of the character). I've romanced all but Anders (just can't bring myself to do that) with both male and female characters in same sex, heterosexual and bisexual options. Each one felt very different to me. My rivalmance with Fenris felt differently on my diplomatically sweet mage Lily Hawke than on my sassy, sharp tongued rogue Raphael. But both felt viable, well written and very passionate. And fit both characters. His friendmance has a completely different feel from rivalmance. I've romanced Isabela (friendmance only) with both a male and female Hawke, and while both felt right, I have to say I prefered the female rogue, Kit Hawke's encounters to the mage Roland. Merrill as well, has managed to snag a couple of my Hawke's I had intended for either Fenris or Isabela in addition to having her own wholly devoted Hawkes. Strangely I only START out romancing her with a male Hawke, only once having her ninjamance one of my female mages. The only f/f one I deliberately intend to romance at the start is Isabela.

Isabela is established as bisexual (from her cameo in DAO even) and she makes frequent commentary in her banters about women, the Blooming Rose, etc. Anders never out and out says "I bat for both teams" in Awakenings but I always got a gay/bi vibe off him.

Guess what I'm trying to say is, I prefer the open options, and yes, the story may be slightly different if you romance one of the PCs one game as a woman, then one as a man, but for me, for that playthrough it has a very different but RIGHT feeling to it regardless of which gender you choose to play.

With the exception of Isabela none of the characters out and out admits to being bisexual (except Anders gets pissy if shot down by either gender Hawke and later bad mouths Fenris/Merrill if Hawke is in a relationship with them).

Modificata da sylvanaerie, 02 giugno 2012 - 02:21 .

[Ryzaki]

I disagree.

Unless the devs are going to make one of each (One straight and one gay LI) and have the gay LIs actually be squadmates and important to the plot I'd rather they go with all bi.

[PinkDiamondstl]

 Everybody has to be bi??? ...............That's just silly and UNREALISTIC!

[KingRoxas]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

 Everybody has to be bi??? ...............That's just silly and UNREALISTIC!

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Like Anders for a start . He should't have been bi.

[draken-heart]

i did not like the idea, but it was the best solution because:

1) we do not know much about Merrill or Fenris between when they are born, or in Merrill's case, after the mirror, and when Hawke meets them.
2) they would have needed to establish Merrill and Fenris as straight, or have opposite sex lovers, and we know that merrill has never had sex, so she may have been gay the whole time and never new it.

[CuriousArtemis]

draken-heart wrote...

2) they would have needed to establish Merrill and Fenris as straight, or have opposite sex lovers, and we know that merrill has never had sex, so she may have been gay the whole time and never new it.

You don't need to have sex to know your sexuality; I didn't have to have sex to discover I was straight; I definitely knew before that 

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I don't agree that "everyone is bisexual" I just think that companions' sexuality is another thing that we can customise. For example, in my first playthrough of DA2 LadyHawke, Merrill and Anders were gay; Isabela was bisexual; Fenris, Aveline, Sebastian and Varric were straight. There was nothing in the game to tell me this assumption was wrong and that Merrill, Anders and Fenris were actually bisexual. For me, what happens in another playthrough is completely separate.

As for discouraging me from playing as different genders, meh. I'd like to see the Miranda and Ashley romances in Mass Effect but I've still never managed to finish a BroShep playthrough. So if DA2 hadn't made Merrill a f/f option I probably would have ended up missing out on that romance altogether.

[Ryzaki]

Yup. I love Garrus and would love to do his romance.

I never have and I never will. Why? Because I'd have to play FemShep and deal with that voice acting. No thank you. Not going through that for...what? 15 minutes worth of content?

[draken-heart]

motomotogirl wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

2) they would have needed to establish Merrill and Fenris as straight, or have opposite sex lovers, and we know that merrill has never had sex, so she may have been gay the whole time and never new it.

You don't need to have sex to know your sexuality; I didn't have to have sex to discover I was straight; I definitely knew before that 

was probably overexplaining it, but the point is that all Heterosexual romance options in DA/ME are established as such either in game or by the devs. Merrill was neither, so she could be gay and we do not know, since the only person we know she liked was hawke. The did not have to give Merrill a lover, maybe a crush on someone of the opposite sex. plus there are a lot of homosexuals in the real world who did not "Know" until they were older/had sex with someone. you could say that merrill was one of those people

Modificata da draken-heart, 04 giugno 2012 - 05:09 .

[brushyourteeth]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

I don't agree that "everyone is bisexual" I just think that companions' sexuality is another thing that we can customise. For example, in my first playthrough of DA2 LadyHawke, Merrill and Anders were gay; Isabela was bisexual; Fenris, Aveline, Sebastian and Varric were straight. There was nothing in the game to tell me this assumption was wrong and that Merrill, Anders and Fenris were actually bisexual. For me, what happens in another playthrough is completely separate.

As for discouraging me from playing as different genders, meh. I'd like to see the Miranda and Ashley romances in Mass Effect but I've still never managed to finish a BroShep playthrough. So if DA2 hadn't made Merrill a f/f option I probably would have ended up missing out on that romance altogether.

Technically you can only customize them to be either interpreted as bi, gay, or straight depending on your character's gender. I mean in your case you couldn't actually make Anders gay because as long as you were nice to him he'd hit on you. Unless you metagame to avoid certain dialogue, Anders will always show a female Hawke how interested he is in women.

I always play as a female Hawke and no matter what I do I can't ever just decide that Merrill is straight, or that Anders or Fenris are gay. They're all going to either hit on me or banter about how hot Hawke is no matter what gender I play. Hense the hero-sexualness of it all.

Male Hawke =         gay or bi Anders
                                gay or bi Fenris
                                straight or bi Merrill
                                bi Isabela

Female Hawke =     straight or bi Anders
                                straight or bi Fenris
                                gay or bi Merrill
                                bi Isabela

Aveline's either straight or bi no matter what. Sebastian's either straight or just not into MHawke. Varric could be anything (Bianca could have been just a good friend).

So what this means is I still don't get any gay party members. Or straight ones. And I understand why because it limits the way other people want to play. But I still miss my gay buddy Steve, and I'll always feel like something's missing. Wouldn't have hurt to have Carver and Bethany be definitively gay or straight, since we don't romance them anyway.

Modificata da brushyourteeth, 04 giugno 2012 - 06:43 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Anders hasn't tried to hit on any of my Hawkes. I know some people (blokes mostly) complain about how it happens and how you get rivalry for turning him down (I prefer to rival him anyway) but its never happened to me. I tend to use the sarcastic or aggressive dialogue so he never bothers trying. So after hearing about his "friend" that got turned tranquil I just assumed he was gay, but I got that vibe from him in awakening anyway.

[teek-of-doom]

Having 'be with whoever wants them' characters adds more to the replay value for me. The only Bioware game I've completed as a male character is DA2, for the gay romances. I'm not interested in playing a straight male character, or that option is so far down on my list that I'll just look up the scenes on youtube..

[sylvanaerie]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Anders hasn't tried to hit on any of my Hawkes. I know some people (blokes mostly) complain about how it happens and how you get rivalry for turning him down (I prefer to rival him anyway) but its never happened to me. I tend to use the sarcastic or aggressive dialogue so he never bothers trying. So after hearing about his "friend" that got turned tranquil I just assumed he was gay, but I got that vibe from him in awakening anyway.

Yes, he will hit on you in the first conversation  you have with him back at his clinic later in Act 1 once you go deal with the templars and Karl.  Not that immediate cutscene where he tells you about Justice, but later when you go back to talk to him.  If you never go back or always choose aggressive options, it cuts the conversation short and he won't bring it up.

As for the siblings, Carver is straight. You get a letter from Peaches (which varies if you are male or female Hawke) and he has a couple of banters with Merrill (showing an interest in her) and with Isabela about the women at the Rose.  Now he may be bi, but I don't get a bi vibe from him.

Bethany however may be straight (she has this flirtation with Sebastian going on behind the scenes), but she is a virgin and if not interested is at least curious about women (according to banters with Isabela).  So I'd guess, straight but maybe bi-curious.

Modificata da sylvanaerie, 05 giugno 2012 - 01:55 .

[Wrathion]

How come no one ever makes a thread about how there shouldn't be any straight companions?

[hussey 92]

Alistair seems like a more legit character than Merrill cause his universe isn't based on the PC's preference.

[robertthebard]

Flemeth should have given Alistair the same advice she gives Merrill at the conclusion of Long Way Home: No path is darker than when your eyes are shut. Alistair rant forthcoming, fanboy/girls beware:

Alistair was a legit hypocrit. It was perfectly fine, in his eyes, to lie to the PC about who and what he was, and then make excuses for it. If you didn't lick his boots about it in dialog, and were romancing him, it ends at that convo. Alistair spent more time in camp after I got Sten, barring me being a warrior, than any other character in my party, based solely on that. Later, if you keep the romance going on anything but HN, he will drop you like a hot rock to be King, if you set him up to be. My favorite way around that was to take him with me for the Archdemon, and watch with tears of satisfaction rolling down my face as he dies. Assuming he isn't killed at the Landsmeet, which is also intensely gratifying.

Merrill, on the other hand, is a hoot to take anywhere. Her innocence about the world around her, coupled with a lack of knowing that sometimes you don't say exactly what you think, such as asking the Arishok: But your feet didn't do anything, did they?, or, and this is even better, commenting about how dangerous it is to be a priest after Haunted, when Varric can say that any good priest that prays for Bartrand would catch on fire. There is also the priceless gem during Haunted, where she will party banter something along the lines of: Hello, Messere Ghost, can you please stop that now. None of these lines are affected by whether or not she finds Hawke attractive, on either gender. Merrill is > than Alistair just for the ocassional comic relief she can bring to the table, sometimes at the most inoppurtune times, such as the Arishok dialog.

[Apathy1989]

Alexa_ wrote...

Second this.

There should be a LI for each gender and sexual orientation ... but not all mixed in one character and then just put four of those "all-in-one" LIs (willing to hump anyone called Hawke) into the game and label that as "equality" and "versatility"!

I disagree. 1 LI per gender/orientation is not enough.

If I was presented with 4 companions:

1 Male Straight
1 Male Gay
1 Female Straight
1 Female Gay

I would be disappointed if my only option as a straight guy was a single woman - because there are a range of personalities, of which only a few I am interested in. I tend to go for the certain characters bioware writes - Leliana, Tali, Liara and Merril. If I was told I only had the option of a character like Isabela, Morrigon or Miranda, I would be disappointed.

I support the idea of preset orientations, and I agree it adds more depth to the character. Traynor and Cortez were great characters in ME3. The sexual orientation of all the characters in DAO makes sense and adds to their character. However given the limited resources in creating a game, I am more keen to accept bisexual characters if it leaves more options open.

Modificata da Apathy1989, 10 giugno 2012 - 10:54 .

[robertthebard]

The only bisexual character in any single playthrough I have done on DA 2 is Isabela. If I'm romancing Anders, not likely, or Merrill, Fenris and Isabela can have a fling. Note that, if I'm romancing Isabela, Anders and Fenris won't. Assuming all things are equal, if Fenris will hook up with Isabela for a fling, why, if she's not available and he's bi would he not hook up with a bi Anders? This is the concept that I keep struggling with, herosexual does not equal bisexual.

[draken-heart]

i like to imagine that Anders is Bi-curious, (willing to have some with male!Hawke and only mentions Karl as his first to a male Hawke).

Fenris and Merrill, they are blank slates as far as i know, so they can be molded into homosexual/heterosexual depending on the gender of Hawke.

Izzy, she is the only true bi-sexual character in the game that can be romanced.

Modificata da draken-heart, 10 giugno 2012 - 09:16 .