473 réponses à ce sujet

[Baronesa]

Skypezee wrote...

I'm going to quote Yahtzee on this because I think he says it rather nicely in his "Extra Punctuation" article on DA2.

David Gaider's statement that the romances in DA2 are intended for "everyone" struck a chord with me, because I already intended to write a column about my personal experience with the romances in the game. I think David's statement goes deeper than he may have intended - any player of any sexuality can enjoy any of the romances in the game.

It's not about making all characters bi-sexual for the sake of being bi-sexual. It's about making it so any player can enjoy a romance regardless of sexuality. If you want to romance a male character as a female, fine. If you want to romance that same male character as a dude, that's fine too. It's about the concept of role playing where you can do whatever you want and perceive the world and the characters around you however you want to perceive it. "No! Anders is straight!' Okay, then he's straight for you and your character. "No! Anders is bi/gay!" okay, then for your and your character he shall be bi/gay. It's all about flexibility for not just the character but the game as whole so that way people can have their own experiences with the game.

^^^^^^^^ THIS!!!

Bravo!

[The Uncanny]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

Yes, because that's everything you expect from Fantasy isn't it, what you mentioned, you expect it when it's been around for this length of time. The same way you'd expect extreme hairstyles on members of a Punk band. 

But when something major to the setting or a feature, unexpected is added, it's changes it. 

Some prefer it, some don't. I simply don't prefer it by hey that's me.

Ah. So you won't play anything that doesn't stick rigidly to genre conventions?

[jlb524]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...
I think it's more the fact that these characters come onto me in different playthroughs, like I was the same sex and person as last time. 

Well, I think the quality of the game narrative should be judged on the story as experienced in a particular playthrough without bringing in meta-game knowledge.

Erik Lehnsherr wrote... 
It takes away from the experience for me to have to label every character, Anders V1, Anders V2, Royce V1 etc

I would rather think of him as just Anders. 

What do you think of "Ferelden"?

Because, the state of that country varies from playthrough to playthrough based on player choice.  Does the meta-game knowledge that the mages can be freed from the Circle in one "Ferelden" and not another bother you?  

So, there would be "Ferelden V1" and "Ferelden V2" or is it just "Ferelden"?

[highcastle]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

That's true but the people in the DA:O universe are still "Human" yes? Then more than likely not all of them are Bi-sexual, but if you want them simply for more options, fine I see your point but I prefer again, a darker more realistic approach. 

So you're fine with the game being 'unrealistic' so long as it's 'realistic'?

Yes, because that's everything you expect from Fantasy isn't it, what you mentioned, you expect it when it's been around for this length of time. The same way you'd expect extreme hairstyles on members of a Punk band. 

But when something major to the setting or a feature, unexpected is added, it's changes it. 

Some prefer it, some don't. I simply don't prefer it by hey that's me. 

Here's the thing, you're chosing what's "realistic" or not based on modern day attidues about sexuality. Which, and this shouldn't come as much of a shocker given the content of this thread, are still pretty stigmatized. Thedas doesn't have that same stigma in regards to sexual orientation or gender. Which is why we can also see women as major powers in the military and as world leaders while in many parts of reality is still "unrealistic."

It is perfectly realistic that without the framework of oppressive forces, more people would feel comfortable exploring their sexuality rather than feeling limited to a binary option. Or feeling pressured to choose someone of the opposite sex. When you make statements about realism like this, you're applying 21st Century Western World standards to a fantasy land. Stop that. Allusions are fine, but Thedas is not a direct parallel of the real world.

[The Uncanny]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

Not at all, but it can't simply be put in, in a setting where it's not usual. 

It needs to have emphasis, not just tacked on.

I'm not sure I follow you. For the game to have bi LIs the game would need to be about bi LIs?

[Baronesa]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

You can't change a character simply by existing, that is unrealistic. 

I don't know if you ever played Blade Runner, but according to your actions and decisions who was or wasn't a replicant changed from game to game, just for doing something different...

Playthrough X, LI1 realize she is bi and goes with PC.

Playthrough Y LI1 is left alone and you go for LI2 and... there is no statement about LI sexuality... at all so may still be bi even if you don't see it.

The problem her eis assuming that UNLESS stated openly and repeatedly, everyone is hetero.

[Baronesa]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

But the game states they are Human. Humans, wherever they are will not all be Bisexual. 

Unless this is a different species with the same name. 

Humans are not born witht he power of magic either... or Biotics in ME universe...

[The Uncanny]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

Not at all, but it can't simply be put in, in a setting where it's not usual. 

It needs to have emphasis, not just tacked on.

I'm not sure I follow you. For the game to have bi LIs the game would need to be about bi LIs?

(My post before the one in Reply to this.)

No, I'm sorry but I don't think that post expanded on the above statement.

Why would bi LIs in a generic 'fantasy' setting be unusual? What alternative were you proposing?

And what did you mean by 'emphasis'?

Modifié par The Uncanny, 02 août 2012 - 08:15 .

[Fox In The Box]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...


No but it is unrealistic. Not everyone IS bi-sexual.

Everyone? We're talking about four loosely acquaintanced people here. Depending on where you live, it is not unlikely at all, and especially in a world were same-sex relations are widely accepted.

And about the "unrealistic" argument. I've said it before, and I'll say it again; there is absolutely nothing "realistic" about the party make-up in either of the DA-games. In Origins we have; The bastard ex-almost-templar prince of Ferelden, the daughter of  Flemeth herself, a stray Beresaad who agrees to help you, an antivan assassin, an orlesian bard with ties to the future Divine, the first Golem in creation, a friendly spirit-possessed and a berserker ex-husband to a genius Paragon.
In DA2, we have; the pirate who stole the holy book of the Qunari, the Captain of the Guard, a not-so-friendly spirit-possessed who sets in motion the mage-templar war, a Dalish blood mage rebuilding one of the only Eluvians in existence, the only lyrium-infused runaway slave in Thedas, the prince of Starkhaven and a surface dwarf whose brother unwittingly helps driving the Knight-Commander to insanity.

All of these people are statistical outliers by Thedas' standards and the odds that they should all fall within the same merry bands of friends is really bloody low, to put it mildly. I have never heard anyone protest against this, so I can only conclude that this unrealistic aspect of the companions is considered a good thing. Complaining that some of them also happen to be bi/pansexual as statistical unlikely and therefore unrealistic and therefore bad makes little sense to me.

Modifié par Fox In The Box, 02 août 2012 - 08:17 .

[Xilizhra]

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

And the whining goes on and on...

Most self-demonstrating post ever.

[Milan92]

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

And the whining goes on and on...

They aren't whining Ivy, they are simply explaining why they want all characters to be BI. Nothing wrong with that right?

[Milan92]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

Not at all, but it can't simply be put in, in a setting where it's not usual. 

It needs to have emphasis, not just tacked on.

I'm not sure I follow you. For the game to have bi LIs the game would need to be about bi LIs?

(My post before the one in Reply to this.)

No, I'm sorry but I don't think that post expanded on the above statement.

Why would bi LIs in a generic 'fantasy' setting be unusual? What alternative were you proposing?

And what did you mean by 'emphasis'?

The fact that they're all Bi, is what's unusual. 

In Fantasy, Dragons aren't.

Importance, not tacked on, not the same reaction to every gender or person. Half the point of RP is different reactions from actions. 

Did you know that officially Robin Hood and Little John were both gay? Lady Marian was added later to the legend because of the fact that beign gay was a big taboo back in that time. 

So BI or gay isn't unusual in fantasy at all.

[The Uncanny]

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

Not at all, but it can't simply be put in, in a setting where it's not usual. 

It needs to have emphasis, not just tacked on.

I'm not sure I follow you. For the game to have bi LIs the game would need to be about bi LIs?

(My post before the one in Reply to this.)

No, I'm sorry but I don't think that post expanded on the above statement.

Why would bi LIs in a generic 'fantasy' setting be unusual? What alternative were you proposing?

And what did you mean by 'emphasis'?

The fact that they're all Bi, is what's unusual. 

In Fantasy, Dragons aren't.

Importance, not tacked on, not the same reaction to every gender or person. Half the point of RP is different reactions from actions.

So what is the 'usual' setting you spoke of?

And if all the LIs have been written as bi, how is their inclusion 'tacked on'?

[Milan92]

Who says that Frodo wasn't BI? Or Legolas? Maybe even Aragorn too. I suspect Sam too since he and Frodo were so close.

Just because they don't say that they weren't BI doesn't mean that they are straight either.

They could have all been BI, we never know. And it still is fantasy. 

Modifié par Milan92, 02 août 2012 - 08:36 .