473 replies to this topic

[N7KnightSabre]

I think a character's sexuality does add to the overall character. The person has this color hair, is this race, and is this sexual orientation. It adds more to them, in my opinion, gives them depth. Traynor and Cortez were great characters who were gay. It was part of who they were. A fact. I thought it was great for gay and lesbian gamers to experience a romance tailored just for them. I felt making Kaidan bi in the third game came out of nowhere. I felt it was wrong for his character.

So when I played DA2, I thought making every LI available to either sex was comical. Why? Because I could imagine Bioware being tired of hearing people complain that "so-and-so was not available" or "I wanted this person". So Bioware was like, "Just make everyone available. Done!" But in all seriousness, I like the fact that you can romance who you like no matter what because if I couldn't romance someone because they weren't a certain orientation, I'd be disappointed. However (I'll probably sound like I'm flipflopping here, but the fjollowing is what I agree with most), I still believe that defining the orientation adds to the character. I see Fenris as a straight guy and so I was confused when I saw that he was available to a male Hawke. But other players may see him differently. I do NOT believe that depending on playthrough, one character who was gay before is straight now. That just doesn't makes sense to me.

PS some people keep saying that Isabela is the only whose orientation is defined. I disagree. Anders was a womanizer in Awakening so he was staight. Fenris has a physical relationship with Isabela if not romanced by Hawke so he's either straight or bi. Merrill is the only one who wasn't defined as either straight, bi, or gay.

[Ryzaki]

I'm so sick of people saying Anders was straight in awakening.

Where oh where did he say he wasn't attracted to men? Where?!?

[CuriousArtemis]

^Because people just don't understand that unless a person point blank tells you what s/he prefers, you can't tell his/her sexuality just from how s/he acts or talks.

Also, the default guess is usually straight; if someone never professes interest in the same sex, but does evidence a preference for the opposite sex, then s/he is presumed straight.

It's the habit one has of always assuming the other guy is just like you. "Just like you" meaning straight, of course.

[sylvanaerie]

With Anders I get the feeling it's not so much he prefers one gender over another, but more he's open to all experience. Some of his banters (in Awakenings) talk about things in the tower being pretty wild behind the scenes, and I tend to think he's pansexual rather than straight or gay. While he never out and out discussed being attracted to men in Awakenings, he never said he wasn't. I always got a gay/bi vibe off him, even then. But it could be he doesn't think in terms of 'i like men/women' but more, 'I'm attracted to the PERSON not their gender.'

[Furtled]

Personal anecdote for consideration: I have a friend who played DA2 and it rapidly became one of her favourite games due to the Hawke-sexual nature of the characters, to her she had finally found a game that let her play the character she wanted to and romance the character that appealed to her the most instead of whichever one fit the gender she'd picked.

I do get where the OP's coming from on using set sexuality to add to replay value, but the majority of players don't play through games as many times as people on BSN, and locking a character in one way or another takes something away from players like my friend without adding anything of significant value to players like me (who aren't fussed by it), or one's who would prefer set preferences.

Sexuality isn't usually a character trait, so why take something fantastic away from people if it does no harm?

Edited by Furtled, 11 June 2012 - 08:50 PM.

[sunnydxmen]

[quote]PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Like Anders for a start . He should't have been bi.

And why cant Anders be bi i always thought that suit him.

[Wrathion]

robertthebard wrote...

The only bisexual character in any single playthrough I have done on DA 2 is Isabela. If I'm romancing Anders, not likely, or Merrill, Fenris and Isabela can have a fling. Note that, if I'm romancing Isabela, Anders and Fenris won't. Assuming all things are equal, if Fenris will hook up with Isabela for a fling, why, if she's not available and he's bi would he not hook up with a bi Anders? This is the concept that I keep struggling with, herosexual does not equal bisexual.

Because he and Anders...hate each other...
Are...you okay?

[Ryzaki]

Yeah...Fenders...is...no.

I think Fenris would rather rip Anders' throat out honestly. Or sew his mouth shut. Whichever came first to mind.

[hussey 92]

Edited by hussey 92, 13 June 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[hussey 92]

[quote]sunnydxmen wrote...

[quote]PinkDiamondstl wrote...

Like Anders for a start . He should't have been bi. [quote]

And why cant Anders be bi i always thought that suit him.[quote]

It suits DA2 Anders.  But many assumed Awakening Anders was straight.

Edited by hussey 92, 13 June 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[Wrathion]

hussey 92 wrote...


It suits DA2 Anders.  But many assumed Awakening Anders was straight.

That really doesn't make any sense.

[Meeeps]

Hmm, I am not sure, those chars are bi from start, doesn't it depend "how you made them" (on which Hawke-Sex-Universe you play), is Anders bi if you play a Femke? As I played a Malke, I thought, Anders is ******.
Isa is bi, so is Zevran, I doubt the rest....

Edited by Meeeps, 14 June 2012 - 04:51 PM.

[hussey 92]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...


It suits DA2 Anders.  But many assumed Awakening Anders was straight.

That really doesn't make any sense.

why not?

[brushyourteeth]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm so sick of people saying Anders was straight in awakening.

Where oh where did he say he wasn't attracted to men? Where?!?

I honestly only made the assumption based on the line where he says something like "All I want is to settle down with a pretty girl and the right to shoot lightning at fools." (nevermind that he doesn't have a lightning spell unless you teach it to him later, but whatever.) If he'd said he wanted the right to "settle down with someone who loves me" etc. I probably wouldn't have made any assumptions at all - DA:O clearly set the precedent for there being a realistically wide range of sexual orientations.

There's also the fact that if you romance him in DAII as a male Hawke he tells you that Karl was his first sexual experience with a man. Of course you only know that by playing a guy or by metagaming, which means if you play as a fHawke he might actually be straight (according to the devs, if you're a lady Hawke Karl and Anders may have never happened). The only thing that could have made Anders bi in Awakening is if he was attracted to guys without acting on it back then but just never mentioned it.

But to answer your question, it never said he wasn't attracted to men. It just never said that he was.
And heavily implied that he was pretty enthusiastic about the ladies.

So if assuming that a guy who always talks about his attraction to women but not men is probably straight makes me prejudiced... I guess I'll work on that, but I think the mistake is at least understandable.

Edited by brushyourteeth, 15 June 2012 - 05:43 AM.

[hussey 92]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm so sick of people saying Anders was straight in awakening.

Where oh where did he say he wasn't attracted to men? Where?!?

I honestly only made the assumption based on the line where he says something like "All I want is to settle down with a pretty girl and the right to shoot lightning at fools." (nevermind that he doesn't have a lightning spell unless you teach it to him later, but whatever.) If he'd said he wanted the right to "settle down with someone who loves me" etc. I probably wouldn't have made any assumptions at all - DA:O clearly set the precedent for there being a realistically wide range of sexual orientations.

There's also the fact that if you romance him in DAII as a male Hawke he tells you that Karl was his first sexual experience with a man. Of course you only know that by playing a guy or by metagaming, which means if you play as a fHawke he might actually be straight (according to the devs, if you're a lady Hawke Karl and Anders may have never happened). The only thing that could have made Anders bi in Awakening is if he was attracted to guys without acting on it back then but just never mentioned it.

But to answer your question, it never said he wasn't attracted to men. It just never said that he was.
And heavily implied that he was pretty enthusiastic about the ladies.

So if assuming that a guy who always talks about his attraction to women but not men is probably straight makes me prejudiced... I guess I'll work on that, but I think the mistake is at least understandable.

couldn't have said it better myself (I tried though)

[esper]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm so sick of people saying Anders was straight in awakening.

Where oh where did he say he wasn't attracted to men? Where?!?

I honestly only made the assumption based on the line where he says something like "All I want is to settle down with a pretty girl and the right to shoot lightning at fools." (nevermind that he doesn't have a lightning spell unless you teach it to him later, but whatever.) If he'd said he wanted the right to "settle down with someone who loves me" etc. I probably wouldn't have made any assumptions at all - DA:O clearly set the precedent for there being a realistically wide range of sexual orientations.

There's also the fact that if you romance him in DAII as a male Hawke he tells you that Karl was his first sexual experience with a man. Of course you only know that by playing a guy or by metagaming, which means if you play as a fHawke he might actually be straight (according to the devs, if you're a lady Hawke Karl and Anders may have never happened). The only thing that could have made Anders bi in Awakening is if he was attracted to guys without acting on it back then but just never mentioned it.

But to answer your question, it never said he wasn't attracted to men. It just never said that he was.
And heavily implied that he was pretty enthusiastic about the ladies.

So if assuming that a guy who always talks about his attraction to women but not men is probably straight makes me prejudiced... I guess I'll work on that, but I think the mistake is at least understandable.

Firsy off, how is da:o realistic sexuality wise. There are no exclusevily homosexual characther, there are just happens to be two hetero and two bi who both had an excuse for being bi (it was part of their job).

Second of assuming that one person only is interesting in one sex because they hit exclusively on that sex is false. Anders could have had a thousand reason for that the most obvious being his trying to keep up the act of the charming rouge but harmless mage (womanizing helped creating that).

Anders doesn't say that Karl is his first with a man, he says Karls was his first... which many takes to mean first of anything.

Anyway word of god has stated that Anders always had a relentionship with Karl.He just doesn't mention it to female, the two with subjective sexuality are Fenris and Merrill who never states what they were pre-Hawke. (Fenris doesn't seem to know). 

[Wrathion]

hussey 92 wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...


It suits DA2 Anders.  But many assumed Awakening Anders was straight.

That really doesn't make any sense.

why not?

How does bisexuality "suit" a person? And why does it suit DA2!Anders and not Awakening!Anders?
They are the same person.

esper wrote...
Firsy off, how is da:o realistic sexuality wise. There are no exclusevily homosexual characther, there are just happens to be two hetero and two bi who both had an excuse for being bi (it was part of their job).
Second of assuming that one person only is interesting in one sex because they hit exclusively on that sex is false. Anders could have had a thousand reason for that the most obvious being his trying to keep up the act of the charming rouge but harmless mage (womanizing helped creating that). 
Anders doesn't say that Karl is his first with a man, he says Karls was his first... which many takes to mean first of anything.
Anyway word of god has stated that Anders always had a relentionship with Karl.He just doesn't mention it to female, the two with subjective sexuality are Fenris and Merrill who never states what they were pre-Hawke. (Fenris doesn't seem to know).

Having two straight characters and two bi characters realistic? Compared to what?
THEY HAD AN EXCUSE TO NOT BE STRAIGHT SO IT'S OKAY THAT THEY AREN'T. What the heck...
How is being bisexual apart of Zevran or Leliana's "job". They didn't LEARN to not be straight they just aren't. 
Why do characters need reasons as to why they're gay/bi but not the straight ones?

So if they don't state that their sexual orientation it's subjective...didn't you just...

Edited by Alexandrine Delassixe, 15 June 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[Tyrium]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm so sick of people saying Anders was straight in awakening.

Where oh where did he say he wasn't attracted to men? Where?!?

I honestly only made the assumption based on the line where he says something like "All I want is to settle down with a pretty girl and the right to shoot lightning at fools." (nevermind that he doesn't have a lightning spell unless you teach it to him later, but whatever.) If he'd said he wanted the right to "settle down with someone who loves me" etc. I probably wouldn't have made any assumptions at all - DA:O clearly set the precedent for there being a realistically wide range of sexual orientations.

There's also the fact that if you romance him in DAII as a male Hawke he tells you that Karl was his first sexual experience with a man. Of course you only know that by playing a guy or by metagaming, which means if you play as a fHawke he might actually be straight (according to the devs, if you're a lady Hawke Karl and Anders may have never happened). The only thing that could have made Anders bi in Awakening is if he was attracted to guys without acting on it back then but just never mentioned it.

But to answer your question, it never said he wasn't attracted to men. It just never said that he was.
And heavily implied that he was pretty enthusiastic about the ladies.

So if assuming that a guy who always talks about his attraction to women but not men is probably straight makes me prejudiced... I guess I'll work on that, but I think the mistake is at least understandable.

Exactly.

esper wrote...

Firsy off, how is da:o realistic sexuality wise. There are no exclusevily homosexual characther, there are just happens to be two hetero and two bi who both had an excuse for being bi (it was part of their job).

...

Anyway word of god has stated that Anders always had a relentionship with Karl.He just doesn't mention it to female, the two with subjective sexuality are Fenris and Merrill who never states what they were pre-Hawke. (Fenris doesn't seem to know). 

"Excuse" for being bi? What? People don't need an exuse, they just are ...

Also, you're wrong on your "word of god", it's been stated that Anders is just as open to interpretation as Fenris and Merrill - the only companion who is exclusively bisexual is Isabela. The others make no mention of an attraction to the same gender unless you play the same gender. Anders with an F!Hawke can canonically be straight, though, of course, you can also play him as bisexual, like the others.

[Tyrium]

brushyourteeth wrote...

I just really miss my gay buddy Steve.

motomotogirl wrote...

*snip*
Now I recently played ME3 and I do agree that sexuality added to the characters; I felt that Trayner and Cortez were sooo incredibly refreshing as characters. So I get that.

*snip*

So, I hear you. But I'm greedy

I am so glad that someone is saying this besides me. Maybe as an easy compromise (meaning the best of both worlds and everybody wins, which is even better than a compromise) DAIII could have some gay non-romanceable NPC's?

God yes! I miss Steve! I loved having exclusively gay characters, that was a really refreshing change.

[labargegrrrl]

i liked the all-bi crew, realistic or not. we're an underrepresented bunch, for the most part, so the fact that we got so much face in this game was totally awesome!

[Wrathion]

Tyrium wrote...

Also, you're wrong on your "word of god", it's been stated that Anders is just as open to interpretation as Fenris and Merrill - the only companion who is exclusively bisexual is Isabela. The others make no mention of an attraction to the same gender unless you play the same gender. Anders with an F!Hawke can canonically be straight, though, of course, you can also play him as bisexual, like the others.

I'm going to need receipts on the bold. Kthx

[brushyourteeth]

esper wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

I honestly only made the assumption based on the line where he says something like "All I want is to settle down with a pretty girl and the right to shoot lightning at fools." (nevermind that he doesn't have a lightning spell unless you teach it to him later, but whatever.) If he'd said he wanted the right to "settle down with someone who loves me" etc. I probably wouldn't have made any assumptions at all - DA:O clearly set the precedent for there being a realistically wide range of sexual orientations.

There's also the fact that if you romance him in DAII as a male Hawke he tells you that Karl was his first sexual experience with a man. Of course you only know that by playing a guy or by metagaming, which means if you play as a fHawke he might actually be straight (according to the devs, if you're a lady Hawke Karl and Anders may have never happened). The only thing that could have made Anders bi in Awakening is if he was attracted to guys without acting on it back then but just never mentioned it.

But to answer your question, it never said he wasn't attracted to men. It just never said that he was.
And heavily implied that he was pretty enthusiastic about the ladies.

So if assuming that a guy who always talks about his attraction to women but not men is probably straight makes me prejudiced... I guess I'll work on that, but I think the mistake is at least understandable.

Firsy off, how is da:o realistic sexuality wise. There are no exclusevily homosexual characther, there are just happens to be two hetero and two bi who both had an excuse for being bi (it was part of their job).

Okay... I'm going to take a deep breath and try not to be defensive. You'll notice that I never said that DA:O was realistic sexuality wise. What I said was "DA:O clearly set the precedent for there being a realistically wide range of sexual orientations." which is not at all the same thing. One assumes that in a world where it's possible to be attracted to the same sex that it's... possible to be attracted to the same sex. We also have my personal favs - Wade and Herren (although they were obviously intended to be a lovable, comical stereotype). I also won't go out of my way to convince anyone that I'm not a homophobe, since my previous posts on the matter have proven that I actually support having more exclusively gay characters and because anyone who wants to make that assumption about me will anyway. It is, after all, the internet - no one has to be fair and reasonable about anything if they don't want to. I will, however, say that I find it pretty gross to insinuate that Leliana and Zevran were bi because of their professions. It implies that one can willingly change their sexual orientation, and I have a lot of gay friends who would tell you that they would gladly do that if they had the ability to.

Second of assuming that one person only is interesting in one sex because they hit exclusively on that sex is false. Anders could have had a thousand reason for that the most obvious being his trying to keep up the act of the charming rouge but harmless mage (womanizing helped creating that).

Anders doesn't say that Karl is his first with a man, he says Karls was his first... which many takes to mean first of anything.

Okay, Anders also says that everyone was hooking up with everyone in the Ferelden tower and that that part, at least, made it a lot of fun. You also meet that elf girl (man, I wish I could remember her name) who sets you up on that quest to try to destroy his phylactery and she tells you all about what a heart breaker is. So long story short, if a guy says he's into women I believe him. If he says he's into men, I believe him. If he talks about his attraction to women but never to men, I'll assume he's straight. If a guy told me he was into guys and even though he never talked about any attraction to women I assumed he was bi, I'd probably be labeled kind of an idiot. So whether the assumption was right or not, it was made, and with clear reason. Let's also not forget that in Thedas nobody really seems to care whether you're gay, straight, or bi unless you're a public figure that needs to produce an heir. Having a gay lover but a public spouse is about the only time it might be considered scandalous - so Anders has no reason to *fake* being straight. I'm quite positive that Anders is not a virgin when he meets Karl, but I'm sure the devs would say you could make that your headcanon if you wanted.

Anyway word of god has stated that Anders always had a relentionship with Karl.He just doesn't mention it to female, the two with subjective sexuality are Fenris and Merrill who never states what they were pre-Hawke. (Fenris doesn't seem to know). 

As others have said, Mr. Gaider has said that it basically is what you as the player want it to be. If Hawke doesn't talk about Karl, there's no evidence that he ever had a relationship with him. Your Hawke assumes whatever he/she wants, although he has said that he doesn't know what man in his right mind would tell a woman he's romancing that that guy she just met was his first male lover, so I get where you're coming from with that. There's been some flip-flopping with the devs on how the subjective sexuality works, and it is confusing. And again, I'm sure that Fenris knows what his sexual preferences are. He may not know much about his sexual history, but people don't just *decide* to be gay, straight, or bi. He's attracted to who he's attracted to, whatever his sexuality actually is.

Tyrim wrote...
Also, you're wrong on your "word of god", it's been stated that Anders is just as open to interpretation as Fenris and Merrill - the only companion who is exclusively bisexual is Isabela. The others make no mention of an attraction to the same gender unless you play the same gender. Anders with an F!Hawke can canonically be straight, though, of course, you can also play him as bisexual, like the others.

*high five*

Edited by brushyourteeth, 15 June 2012 - 05:15 PM.

[CuriousArtemis]

labargegrrrl wrote...

i liked the all-bi crew, realistic or not. we're an underrepresented bunch, for the most part, so the fact that we got so much face in this game was totally awesome!

But, but, don't you know having four of you in one game is "not realistic"?? 

[hussey 92]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...


It suits DA2 Anders.  But many assumed Awakening Anders was straight.

That really doesn't make any sense.

why not?

How does bisexuality "suit" a person? And why does it suit DA2!Anders and not Awakening!Anders?
They are the same person.

I was just responding to an earlier post were someone said it suited him.

Sorry but Awakening Anders and DA2 Anders seem like completly different people to me.