473 réponses à ce sujet

[Feuerwerke]

Todd23 wrote...

While I understand the freedom of being able to romance anyone, my concern is for the realism. Much like one would complain if in a game you needed a certain key and it got destroyed, but the bloke next to you suddenly pulled an exact replica out of his pocket. Sure it conveniently lets you do what you wanted, but it doesn't make any sense. It was strange enough that the companions in Origins can be attracted to you no matter your race or appearance, but for everyone in Thedas to be bi? Please bioware, don't do it!

This argument is absolutely ridiculous. It's a pretty big leap from seeing four LIs being bisexual to assuming everyone on Thedas is bisexual. It's only four people, and you know what? Having four bisexual people in one group of friends isn't weird at all. People who aren't heterosexual tend to group together when they can, for various obvious reasons. I've been in friend groups where everyone was bi or asexual with the exception of one straight girl before. It's perfectly realistic. Not to mention, even just within your party, this only means 4 people are bi. Hawke is whatever you want him/her to be. Aveline doesn't show any interest towards women throughout the game, unless you count her kissing a female Hawke (which I don't since straight girls who are close friends will do things like that under circumstances like that sometimes). Varric seems solely focused on whoever the original Bianca was, assuming she was even someone Varric was romantically attracted to, or that she even existed. Carver doesn't really show any inclination towards men. Bethany is cute and innocent and shy and pretty easy to picture as just about any sexuality (personally I headcanon her as either a lesbian or bisexual, but that's just me). I haven't played through the DLC yet so I haven't seen Talis or Sebastian firsthand, but even then it's common knowledge that Sebastian is straight and chaste.

Making four damn people bisexual is not making the entirety of Thedas bisexual. Get over yourself.

[Knight of Dane]

Bethany is curious towards Isabela's exprience with women but doesn't have any encounters where she shows direct interest in other women. However in both Legacy and Mark of The Assassin she clearly shows interest in Sebastian.
I like to think of her as bi-curious at the least, but she has only ever shown interest in Mr. Vael.

If you hit on Aveline all the times you can through act 2 she will ask if there ever were anything between her and Hawke, regardless of gender, so she doesn't rule out women entirely, even though she doesn't have any other encounters that that and her two husbands.

[Todd23]

@Feuerwerke Wow. I wonder if you've even finished one playthrough. 1. Aveligne does alot more then kiss femhawke, if you romance her (meaning all romancable companions are bi, except Sebastian who's kinda' romancable) . 2. The people of Thedas are pretty excepting of gays and the such, so the need for gay and bi youths to befriend one another for understanding is eliminated. 3. This thread isn't strictly for complaining about DA2. I'm just trying to add my voice to help avoid DA3 from having all bi companions.

[whykikyouwhy]

Todd23 wrote...

@Feuerwerke Wow. I wonder if you've even finished one playthrough. 1. Aveligne does alot more then kiss femhawke, if you romance her (meaning all romancable companions are bi, except Sebastian who's kinda' romancable) . 2. The people of Thedas are pretty excepting of gays and the such, so the need for gay and bi youths to befriend one another for understanding is eliminated. 3. This thread isn't strictly for complaining about DA2. I'm just trying to add my voice to help avoid DA3 from having all bi companions.

A few things...

1. Aveline is not a romanceable companion.

2. I believe Feuerwerke was just providing an example of why some people might band together and bond - my interpretation, at least. People gravitate towards one another for a variety of reasons, and only later may find that they have much more in common than initially thought. Those common lines could further solidify the friendship. Sexuality/sexual identity, and a person's history of lovers, aren't always things that some people share outright and from the get-go. These could be aspects that are discussed much later in the relationship. Generally speaking though, it really isn't uncommon to find people within a social circle that may identify as bisexual, if they care to identify themselves at all.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:49 .

[Feuerwerke]

@Todd23 Um, wow you make no damn sense. Aveline isn't a romanceable companion. You can flirt with her, sure, and I have, but she doesn't really show any actual interest in women. What she shows when a femHawke hits on her is the sort of reaction that a close friend would give another close friend who was flirting with her in that manner; it's all joking. Hawke comes off like she's messing around, and Aveline, who would know that Hawke is bisexual or a lesbian, plays along with it. It doesn't really read like Aveline is into Hawke. If she was she'd be a love interest. It sounds to me like you don't even know who Aveline is, so if anyone here is questionable as to whether or not they've finished the game even once, it's you.

2. Uhm. People who are LGBT don't just befriend each other because of intolerance from society as a whole. We also do it because. You know. If we're looking for potential lovers we probably need to be looking for people who also swing that way, and we make friends in the process. Also it's just something we have in common. It's not like it's only about banding together to find support because we're an oppressed group.

3. Well I *really* don't like your logic there. As a bisexual woman myself, I hated that my only option for a female/female romance in Dragon Age: Origins was Leliana. Why would I want to romance a religious nut, when, you know, in my experience with my culture religious nuts are usually one of the groups that detest who I am? Yeah, fine, Thedas has a different culture and the Andrastian religion has nothing against being LGBT, but it still hit fairly close to home. I romanced her anyway and ended up enjoying it quite a bit, especially after hardening her, but that was still kind of offputting, and I'm forever disappointed that Morrigan wasn't an option to me. Meanwhile, straight male gamers are welcome to either Leliana or Morrigan depending on which one suits their tastes better. They were actually given an option, where I was basically told "oh you're a chick and you like chicks? Cool, here's one chick that'll bang you, have fun. Oh, you like the other woman's personality better? Too bad, she's just for straight dudes."

In Dragon Age 2, the LI I would've lost if both LIs weren't bisexual would've been Merrill. Much as I love Isabela, the Merrill romance was one of the most fulfilling things I've experienced in fiction re; representations of two women falling for each other. Also, making Isabela the only bisexual female option would've been just as problematic as it was to have Zevran as the only bisexual male; it perpetuates the stereotype that bisexuals are promiscuous. Now, there's nothing wrong with being promiscuous as far as I'm concerned, but the idea that all bisexuals are promiscuous is a very harmful thing to perpetuate, and having the only LI of one gender or the other who is bisexual also be promiscuous twice in a row would've been incredibly offensive. I think that was a huge mistake with Zevran, especially since Leliana is also a bit questionable in that regard, and I'm extremely grateful that they didn't turn around and do it again with Isabela.

Your cries of realism are absurd. You just said yourself that Thedas is more accepting of alternative sexualities, so it stands to reason that more openly LGBT people would exist. Therefore it makes the idea that 4 people in one party being bisexual even more reasonable than it already is. Also, the choices you make throughout the game change which characters are interested in you, as someone else pointed out. It's not like all 4 of them fall all over Hawke regardless of his/her gender and what s/he says/does in every playthrough.

It's easy for you to just shut up and romance one gender or the other. The option for a male Hawke to romance a male companion or a female Hawke to romance a female companion doesn't have to be used just because it's there for people like me. Same with the future game's protagonist as well. Or, you know, go play some other game that doesn't have bi or gay people at all. There's a plethora of those. I, however, have very few choices in other games, or even other fiction period, with any representation of LGBT people, especially bisexuals. I will be furious if Bioware decides to go back to only giving me one option for a female/female romance because of whiny, biphobic jerks like you.

[Aleya]

YES. THANK YOU. You explained my issues with all-bi LIs so much more eloquently than I ever could.

I'm bisexual myself and agree with you 100%. It feels more special if NPCs aren't available to any odd PC who expresses interest. I *liked* the fact that I was limited to being Morrigan's sister figure. I was happy to be Steve's supportive friend and equally happy to finally have a reason to make a male Shepard.

DA2 very much felt like a cheap attempt to appeal to everyone. I was ecstatic that I could romance Merrill until I did some research and discovered all the LIs were bi, which completely burst my bubble. I realize it's a videogame set in a world with swords and magic and therefore has no obligation to be realistic, etc etc. But it's a videogame that focuses on the stories of individual people, and people are more complex than "Ooooooh look the main character! *swoon*". Or at least I would like them to be in Bioware games, after all that's the reason I go for Bioware games over any other developer's.

Just like some NPCs' loyalties should be limited based on your decisions, some NPCs' attractions should be limited based on your gender. I wouldn't like it if my entire party were happy to help my backstabbing **** self because of me being, well, the main character, either.

I also don't think it should be Bioware's job to compensate for the lack of LGBTQ characters in all other videogames out there. Their job, in my opinion, is to create a wonderful alternate universe where I can experience grand adventures as someone braver and smarter and stronger than myself. Where I can explore the world they've created surrounded by interesting NPCs whose characters are believable within the context in which they are represented. For me, having all-bi LIs subverts that "believable" clause. All LIs jumping on me breaks me out of immersion just as surely as if Shianni were to flirt with a male human noble Warden; it's unreasonable.

@Feuerwerke: I'm well aware that it sucks when you don't like the personality of the one LI available to you. My main Shepard remained forcibly single throughout ME2 and 3 because there was no-one I was interested in except Thane and I wasn't about to go for a man who was actively dying and should be spending every last possible second with his son. All of my Hawkes have been single throughout all playthroughs because the only LI I liked was Merrill, and I hate how you either have to treat her like crap or enable her use of blood magic. However, as I said above, I don't think all options should be available to everyone. DA:O limited all sorts of things based on your species, social level, and gender, and I think it was a better game for it. The PC should have a lot of freedom, sure, but unlimited freedom makes your options less meaningful.

I'm having trouble properly expressing why this bothers me, but let me give it one more try: 
*Some* bi or gay LIs feels like Bioware fairly including LGBTQ people and being really awesome for it. *All* bi LIs feels like Bioware pandering to anyone who may potentially give them money.

It's like having a few non-white human characters vs making all the companions black humans. One is cool, the other is trying to be cool and going so far with it you just end up looking silly.

Modifié par Aleya, 19 juillet 2012 - 09:17 .

[Wrathion]

Aleya wrote...


It's like having a few non-white human characters vs making all the companions black humans. One is cool, the other is trying to be cool and going so far with it you just end up looking silly.

Was their a reason you went from " a few non-white characters would be good to" "But don't make them all black"...? Just wondering...just wondering...

Feuerwerke. You are my patronus. All of that, I still haven't romanced Leliana though, as her religious nature turned me off. Though you seemed to have those same reservations and enjoyed it to some extent. I might try it out.

[Xilizhra]

*Some* bi or gay LIs feels like Bioware fairly including LGBTQ people and being really awesome for it. *All* bi LIs feels like Bioware pandering to anyone who may potentially give them money.

Which is exactly what they do with all-straight LIs: pandering to insecure straight men (in general; there are some insecure straight women around).

DA2 very much felt like a cheap attempt to appeal to everyone. I was ecstatic that I could romance Merrill until I did some research and discovered all the LIs were bi, which completely burst my bubble. I realize it's a videogame set in a world with swords and magic and therefore has no obligation to be realistic, etc etc. But it's a videogame that focuses on the stories of individual people, and people are more complex than "Ooooooh look the main character! *swoon*". Or at least I would like them to be in Bioware games, after all that's the reason I go for Bioware games over any other developer's.

I think most if not all of the elves we've met and experience the sexuality of have been bisexual. They're not human and don't have to conform to human standards of such.

For me, having all-bi LIs subverts that "believable" clause. All LIs jumping on me breaks me out of immersion just as surely as if Shianni were to flirt with a male human noble Warden; it's unreasonable.

For me, it does nothing whatsoever of the sort. I admit I find it regrettable that you restrict yourself so in this manner.

[Aleya]

Alexandrine Delassixe wrote...
Was their a reason you went from " a few non-white characters would be good to" "But don't make them all black"...? Just wondering...just wondering...

Thank you ever so much for the implications there. No, really. Please keep in mind that you have no idea who I am, where I'm from, or for that matter what my own skin color is. I haven't been discourteous to you or other posters here, and I'd appreciate the same measure of basic respect in return.

The reason I went from one to the other is because, as I said, I think there is a difference between fairly representing different kinds of people and going over the top with it.

I also never said "don't make them all black". I said making all LIs bisexual breaks my sense of immersion just as much as making all companions the same species and race. If DA4 is set in Nevarra I would in fact approve of having all human companions be black, because that would make sense within that geographical context. If Bioware were to establish that bisexuality is significantly more common in Thedas than it is in the real world, I would also approve of having all bisexual LIs.

However, Bioware did no such thing. In fact in DA:O Zevran established that same-sex relationships are unusual and expected to be kept more hush-hush than male+female couples. So going from that to all LIs in DA2 suddenly being bi and perfectly willing to hop into bed with the PC felt jarring. I don't necessarily want my games to be realistic (2 bi and 2 straight LIs is certainly not realistic in any sense of the word), but I do need them to be consistent about the rules they've established about the setting.

Modifié par Aleya, 20 juillet 2012 - 10:55 .

[Aleya]

Xilizhra wrote...
Which is exactly what they do with all-straight LIs: pandering to insecure straight men (in general; there are some insecure straight women around).

Yes, you're absolutely correct about that, and the fact that Bioware doesn't do that is one of the reasons I love them so much. But what does that have to do with anything I said? And how is pandering to people who get pissed about being unable to romance a particular character different from pandering to insecure straight men who get pissed about being abe to romance a particular character?

Xilizhra wrote...
It hink most if not all of the elves we've met and experience the sexuality of have been bisexual. They're not human and don't have to conform to human standards of such.

That's a good point. It would actually be really interesting if Bioware were to establish one species as more inclined to bisexuality than the others. I would approve of that ^^

Xilizhra wrote...
For me, it does nothing whatsoever of the sort. I admit I find it regrettable that you restrict yourself so in this manner.

I'm glad DA2 gave you what you wanted in that department. I don't think the way I feel is regrettable at all though. I *want* to be restricted by what my companions do or don't want, like Anders breaking up with a Hawke who deals with Feynriel's demon. It makes them feel more like real people to me.

Modifié par Aleya, 20 juillet 2012 - 10:54 .

[Xilizhra]

However, Bioware did no such thing. In fact in DA:O Zevran established that same-sex relationships are unusual and expected to be kept more hush-hush than male+female couples. So going from that to all LIs in DA2 suddenly being bi and perfectly willing to hop into bed with the PC felt jarring. I don't necessarily want my games to be realistic (2 bi and 2 straight LIs is certainly not realistic in any sense of the word), but I do need them to be consistent about the rules they've established about the setting.

IIRC, he was talking about the nobility there, where not producing heirs could be something of an issue society would have to care about. Not really a problem for the LIs in DA2. In any case, the wiki using a Gaider interview says that homosexuality is considered "odd, but not immoral," with only those groups who have a specific need for children having an issue with it.

Yes, you're absolutely correct about that, and the fact that Bioware doesn't do that is one of the reasons I love them so much. But what does that have to do with anything I said? And how is pandering to people who get pissed about being unable to romance a particular character different from pandering to insecure straight men who get pissed about being abe to romance a particular character?

Because if they're helped, the first one will gain something substantial while the second one loses nothing.

I'm glad DA2 gave you what you wanted in that department. I don't think the way I feel is regrettable at all though. I *want* to be restricted by what my companions do or don't want, like Anders breaking up with a Hawke who deals with Feynriel's demon. It makes them feel more like real people to me.

You are restricted by what they do/don't want. It's just that these standards aren't considered a huge deal. In any case, Sebastian is straight.

[Dwarva]

Xilizhra wrote...

IIRC, he was talking about the nobility there, where not producing heirs could be something of an issue society would have to care about. Not really a problem for the LIs in DA2. In any case, the wiki using a Gaider interview says that homosexuality is considered "odd, but not immoral," with only those groups who have a specific need for children having an issue with it.

Which, interestingly you would think would make the elven people lean towards hetrosexuality? I've genuinely never seen this article but since they're the only group that seem to have 'issues' with their continued bloodlines...it would make more scientific sense for them to discourage homosexual relationships?

[Xilizhra]

Staarbux wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

IIRC, he was talking about the nobility there, where not producing heirs could be something of an issue society would have to care about. Not really a problem for the LIs in DA2. In any case, the wiki using a Gaider interview says that homosexuality is considered "odd, but not immoral," with only those groups who have a specific need for children having an issue with it.

Which, interestingly you would think would make the elven people lean towards hetrosexuality? I've genuinely never seen this article but since they're the only group that seem to have 'issues' with their continued bloodlines...it would make more scientific sense for them to discourage homosexual relationships?

Physically and emotionally, elves seem to be inclined to bisexuality, and those outside of mainstream elven society often seem to outright embrace it. They have some societal constraints against it, in all likelihood, to keep their population up, but Zevran and Fenris were never really a part of elven society and Merrill has much bigger things preventing her from returning, so I couldn't call it an issue for any of them.

[PizzaThe Hutt]

Xilizhra wrote...

IIRC, he was talking about the nobility there, where not producing heirs could be something of an issue society would have to care about. Not really a problem for the LIs in DA2. In any case, the wiki using a Gaider interview says that homosexuality is considered "odd, but not immoral," with only those groups who have a specific need for children having an issue with it.

You wouldn't by any chance have a link for this?  I always seem to miss the interviews and whatnot :\\

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Aleya wrote...

[snip] I was ecstatic that I could romance Merrill until I did some research and discovered all the LIs were bi, which completely burst my bubble. [snip]

This is a point that a lot of people make that I've never really understood. You were happy when you played the game, you only had a problem when you got information from outside the game. You have to metagame for everyone to be bisexual, without metagaming you can't know everyone's orientation.

Personally I liked the way they did DA2. In most video games (or films or tv shows) the protagonist is a straight bloke, I like getting the chance to play as a gay woman for a change and its even better when I get the choice of two LIs instead of one. Am I being greedy? Probably, but I don't see how it spoils the game for anyone else.

[nightscrawl]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah...Fenders...is...no.

I think Fenris would rather rip Anders' throat out honestly. Or sew his mouth shut. Whichever came first to mind.

Omg you gave it a nickname. >.<

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

You have to metagame for everyone to be bisexual, without metagaming you can't know everyone's orientation.

That's not really accurate though. Even if you never read these forums or read the wiki, you might still have the information simply by choosing to do a second play as the opposing gender from your first play, by which you would then discover that those characters also had the option to be romanced by either gender.

If that was considered metagaming, then every play beyond the first could be considered a metagame since you can never forget the things you learned while playing it the first time. Thus, only the first play is "pure." I suppose you could say that was true for a story aspect, but sometimes it's fun to watch/read a thriller/mystery a second or third time even though you know what happens. With that knowledge you might see things that enrich your experience, clues as it were, making you appreciate the creator's cleverness in hiding the answer in plain sight.

For both DAO and DA2 my second play was much more enjoyable. I had learned all aspects of gameplay, and more importantly I learned which class I never wanted to play again (DAO rogue, DA2 warrior).

Modifié par nightscrawl, 20 juillet 2012 - 04:40 .

[Aleya]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...
This is a point that a lot of people make that I've never really understood. You were happy when you played the game, you only had a problem when you got information from outside the game. You have to metagame for everyone to be bisexual, without metagaming you can't know everyone's orientation.

Personally I liked the way they did DA2. In most video games (or films or tv shows) the protagonist is a straight bloke, I like getting the chance to play as a gay woman for a change and its even better when I get the choice of two LIs instead of one. Am I being greedy? Probably, but I don't see how it spoils the game for anyone else.

Characters not being bisexual unless you metagame bothers me even more than having all bi LIs, actually. I was incredibly pissed off at the way Anders' relationship with Karl was handled. I suppose in this case I'm bringing personal baggage into it, but when I'm interested in someone I make very sure that they know I'm bi, because the idea of having a partner who is not okay with my sexual orientation is completely unacceptable to me. I *loved* how Zevran takes you aside in DA:O to explain that he has an extensive sexual history including both genders, and makes sure the Warden is okay with that. Anders neglecting to mention Karl to a female Hawke, or only mentioning him to a male Hawke as a way to let Hawke know he's attracted to men, was like a slap in the face. Because Merrill and Fenris never say anything at all about past partners but Isabela flirts with both I initially assumed Merrill was lesbian and Fenris was straight, and was again unpleasantly surprised to learn differently.

The game world and its characters do not change between playthroughs. Why on earth would sexual orientation be the one exception to that rule? 

Modifié par Aleya, 20 juillet 2012 - 07:03 .

[EricHVela]

How many people do you all think are totally immune to metagaming?

[Xilizhra]

The game world and its characters do not change between playthroughs. Why on earth would sexual orientation be the one exception to that rule?

Truth be told, I don't think so either; I think all of them are bisexual. Not mentioning Karl is an issue with Anders' romance specifically, not with bisexuality in general. As for the elves... well, again, elves seem to be bisexual in general, and maybe they just assumed you'd know that. Understandable in-character, although it should have been made clearer in-game.

[BKTZLNT]

I don't think of Thedas as one uniform entity. And just because the majority of it is umbrella'd by the Chantry, doesn't mean there aren't vast differences in the basic social intricacies of the different nations.

Therefore, I think the matter of ******/bisexuality, and the degree with which it occurs, should be varying with where different companions come from. Whether you're pro-LGBT or not, you can't deny that homosexuality goes against the natural order of things ie reproduction. Not trying to say it's wrong, that's not my place, but I don't think there would be NO nation that applies a taboo towards it, if not make it punishable by law. I mean, it happens in real life.

My point being that if Bioware is willing to present positive and supportive figures to the LBGT community, there should exist at least one companion on the opposite end of the spectrum (besides the apparently asexual-outside-of-the-Qun Kossith). Thatd be more realistic than having the MAJORITY of your campanions be bisexual, and the others be totally all accepting.

EDIT:  I mean, they do have racists, and atheists.  Obviously, they know that there are two sides to issues like these.  And offtopic, but can anyone explain why there has not been a single black person in Dragon Age so far?  has Bioware never heard the term "moor"?

Modifié par BKTZLNT, 20 juillet 2012 - 07:33 .

[Xilizhra]

Therefore, I think the matter of ******/bisexuality, and the degree with which it occurs, should be varying with where different companions come from. Whether you're pro-LGBT or not, you can't deny that homosexuality goes against the natural order of things ie reproduction. Not trying to say it's wrong, that's not my place, but I don't think there would be NO nation that applies a taboo towards it, if not make it punishable by law. I mean, it happens in real life.

I can deny it, considering that it also shows up in nonhuman animals. Not that the "natural order" is right about everything to begin with.

My point being that if Bioware is willing to present positive and supportive figures to the LBGT community, there should exist at least one companion on the opposite end of the spectrum (besides the apparently asexual-outside-of-the-Qun Kossith). Thatd be more realistic than having the MAJORITY of your campanions be bisexual, and the others be totally all accepting.

Why? What could this possibly accomplish outside of annoying people? And I don't think any companions are seriously racist, and the atheists are quiet...

[EricHVela]

BKTZLNT wrote...

I don't think of Thedas as one uniform entity. And just because the majority of it is umbrella'd by the Chantry, doesn't mean there aren't vast differences in the basic social intricacies of the different nations.

Therefore, I think the matter of ******/bisexuality, and the degree with which it occurs, should be varying with where different companions come from. Whether you're pro-LGBT or not, you can't deny that homosexuality goes against the natural order of things ie reproduction. Not trying to say it's wrong, that's not my place, but I don't think there would be NO nation that applies a taboo towards it, if not make it punishable by law. I mean, it happens in real life.

My point being that if Bioware is willing to present positive and supportive figures to the LBGT community, there should exist at least one companion on the opposite end of the spectrum (besides the apparently asexual-outside-of-the-Qun Kossith). Thatd be more realistic than having the MAJORITY of your campanions be bisexual, and the others be totally all accepting.

Tallis seems to think it is awkward when Bran's companion is that "female" Elf from the Blooming Rose that has the male Elf's voice. (I think it was a bug originally, but purposely including it in MotA essentially canonized it IMHO.)

It's not that it doesn't have some level of occurrence, and it's not that it's ridiculed. It's that it is odd in parts of Thedas -- like odd in someone that has a different custom that's not common and not odd as in taboo. (I think one of the BWE folks actually mentioned it.) Even Anders asks if broHawke has a problem with Anders being with Karl.

It likely cannot be so common in every part of Thedas if some places find it unusual there.

It would make more sense IMHO to have all bi- companions if they all came from Orlais (where one encounters Bran and his companion together).

In Kirkwall, it seemed out of place to have all of the companions just happen to be bi-. The coincidence seem a bit much.

If the writers expected everyone to ignore metagaming, that seems a little naïve IMHO.

(Shame that I have to keep making sure people know that this is IMHO.)

[BKTZLNT]

ReggarBlane wrote...

It would make more sense IMHO to have all bi- companions if they all came from Orlais (where one encounters Bran and his companion together).

In Kirkwall, it seemed out of place to have all of the companions just happen to be bi-. The coincidence seem a bit much.

If the writers expected everyone to ignore metagaming, that seems a little naïve IMHO.

(Shame that I have to keep making sure people know that this is IMHO.)

This.  If DA3 were in Orlais, and all/majority of companions were Orlesian, then I really would have no problem with even an ALL bi/homosexual party, because it's been made clear that they are very sexually accepting in Orlais.  But yea, it just seems out of place in Kirkwall, or even Ferelden,  IMO. 

[Aleya]

Xilizhra wrote...
IIRC, he was talking about the nobility there, where not producing heirs could be something of an issue society would have to care about. Not really a problem for the LIs in DA2. In any case, the wiki using a Gaider interview says that homosexuality is considered "odd, but not immoral," with only those groups who have a specific need for children having an issue with it

I wasn't talking about people having an issue with it, I was talking about the frequency with which it occurred. I  assume that something that is odd or unusual, and which Zevran feels a need to specifically mention when romanced by a female Warden, is something that does not happen frequently. Which I then take to mean that same-sex relationships aren't any more common in Thedas than they are in the real world.

And a little off topic, but now that I think about it, Hawke is nobility by the time s/he and the LI get together. I guess the (lack of) possibility of heirs is another one of those conversations Hawke had without asking for my input :S

Xilizhra wrote...
Because if they're helped, the first one will gain something substantial while the second one loses nothing.

A bisexual character who is open about his or her orientation and happy with it, that to me is a gain. Steve Cortez and Samantha Traynor are substantial gains. Seeing those kinds of characters makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Five lines of altered dialogue tagged on in an attempt to appeal to everyone doesn't feel like a gain to me. It's just as meaningless as JKR telling the world Dumbledore was gay a year after Deathly Hallows hit the stores.

Xilizhra wrote...
You are restricted by what they do/don't want. It's just that these standards aren't considered a huge deal. In any case, Sebastian is straight.

I don't want them to be a huge deal, I want them to exist.

I would've taken less issue with it if Isabela remained her lovely equal-opportunities-for-everyone self; Anders had told female Hawke about Karl just like he told male Hawke; Merrill had a conversation option allowing her to explain how the Dalish in general and she in particular view same-sex relationships; and Fenris had a conversation option allowing Hawke to drag his opinions on sex, love and gender out of him amidst much pacing and awkwardness.

That way each of those characters being bi would make sense and their preferences would be clearly established. Then it would feel like Hawke was just insanely lucky to be surrounded by people whose gender preferences included him/her, instead of the LIs all falling for Hawke due to him/her being Hawke. Four bisexual people in one group of companions is unusual enough that I wouldn't want Bioware to repeat it in DA3, but I would've been okay with it for one game if it had been done properly.

Modifié par Aleya, 20 juillet 2012 - 08:06 .

[BKTZLNT]

Xilizhra wrote...

I can deny it, considering that it also shows up in nonhuman animals. Not that the "natural order" is right about everything to begin with.

I'm not disagreeing, like I remember reading that dolphins show homosexual tendencies.  What I'm saying is the benefits of homosexuality could be seen as superficial, so far as heterosexual relationships provide children.  I'm not saying heterosexuality is right, I'm saying it'd be understandable why a set of taboos could be set in place by a culture of people who develop their beliefs around necessity, and not frivolity.

Why? What could this possibly accomplish outside of annoying people? And I don't think any companions are seriously racist, and the atheists are quiet...

I'm saying racism exists in the DA unvierse,  and if a companion happened to be racist, the PC would KNOW, and if there was a companion that was of the race they didn't like, that companion would KNOW.  Kind of like how Fenris let any mage companion he happened to be around know how he felt about them. 

And apparently having majority bisexual party members annoy some people...I mean...this thread exists.  I do believe it'd annoy people, but it'd be realistic.  But maybe that's not important *shrug*.