68 réponses à ce sujet

[GmanFresh]

after the ritual...demon dies..goes to the baby... wouldnt it be easy to kill her then and there and prevent this old god? and get to save the wardens whilst preventing a freak of nature from being born?

[EricHVela]

No. Spirit would just jump again. It is not destroyed with the baby. If you killed her and the baby, you'd have the same problem as killing the archdemon without accepting her offer.

[Taleroth]

Because there's not a great number of murder-knife scenarios, which is all you're presenting, just with a silly justification behind it and lots of excess punctuation.



There are some, but they don't typically involve murder-knifing companions.

[Adria Teksuni]

I'm rather uncertain as to why you would want to? But yeah, what ReggarBlane said.

[EricHVela]

Can you kill Sten in the cage? I know you can kill your mage buddy in the dungeon. He's only a former companion if you're on the mage origin. You can kill Zevran. You can fight and kill Wynne. That's 3 long-term companions and 1 temporary one. You can kill the helpless soldier and the unconscious hunter. I'm sure there are quite a bit more blatant murder scenes.

[Taleroth]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Can you kill Sten in the cage? I know you can kill your mage buddy in the dungeon. He's only a former companion if you're on the mage origin. You can kill Zevran. You can fight and kill Wynne. That's 3 long-term companions and 1 temporary one. You can kill the helpless soldier and the unconscious hunter. I'm sure there are quite a bit more blatant murder scenes.

There's a difference between killing and murder-knife.  Sten you kill by first asking him if he wants you to put him out of his misery.  Zevran tried killing you.  Wynne's attempting to obstruct you from progressing.

Morrigan?  He doesn't like her baby.

[Skellimancer]

[EricHVela]

Taleroth wrote...

Morrigan?  He doesn't like her baby.

Then why accept her offer only to accomplish the same disasterous Warden-deadly result with the added effort of killing a pregnant woman?

[Taleroth]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Morrigan?  He doesn't like her baby.

Then why accept her offer only to accomplish the same disasterous Warden-deadly result with the added effort of killing a pregnant woman?

Welcome to an understanding of murder-knife.

[FlintlockJazz]

Taleroth wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Morrigan?  He doesn't like her baby.

Then why accept her offer only to accomplish the same disasterous Warden-deadly result with the added effort of killing a pregnant woman?

Welcome to an understanding of murder-knife.

No, he wants to kill her because he doesn't trust her to not use the baby for evil purposes, doesn't trust what the creature the baby will become will be good, but doesn't to have to sacrifice himself in order to defeat the archdemon, and so wants to use Morrigan like Morrigan wants to use him.  He's very very proactive.

[FlintlockJazz]

ReggarBlane wrote...

No. Spirit would just jump again. It is not destroyed with the baby. If you killed her and the baby, you'd have the same problem as killing the archdemon without accepting her offer.

What are you basing that on?  The archdemon can leap from tainted body to tainted body because it is itself tainted, the Old God in the baby is no longer tainted and therefore has no reason to jump into a tainted body, or need to.  It may just jump to another host, or it may even just die, but it is no longer tainted and therefore it's connection to the darkspawn no longer exists.

[Adria Teksuni]

That's just it, you don't know what her child is going to be. Choosing Morrigan's option is rather like the devil you don't know over the devil you do. You're taking a chance on ending the immediate threat and should the worst happen, will be better prepared (you know, not have two civil wars, an Abomination outbreak, a werewolf incursion, and a poisoned land owner) to deal with it.

[T0paze]

Why should you?



She's not actually that evil, and she certainly didn't follow you only to get that child - otherwise, why would she follow you into the thick of the final battle with the Archdemon itself? She could've simply left before the battle to either go away or stay somewhere in the vicinity of Denerim, depending on whether or not that ritual of hers requires that she be relatively close to the Archdemon when he dies.

[Vormaerin]

GmanFresh wrote...

after the ritual...demon dies..goes to the baby... wouldnt it be easy to kill her then and there and prevent this old god? and get to save the wardens whilst preventing a freak of nature from being born?

Doesn't its say that Morrigan disappears right after the archdemon is slain, doubtless to prevent this very vileness from occurring?  She's not stupid, after all.

[FlintlockJazz]

T0paze wrote...

Why should you?

She's not actually that evil, and she certainly didn't follow you only to get that child - otherwise, why would she follow you into the thick of the final battle with the Archdemon itself? She could've simply left before the battle to either go away or stay somewhere in the vicinity of Denerim, depending on whether or not that ritual of hers requires that she be relatively close to the Archdemon when he dies.

Actually, the whole point of her going along with you in the first place IS to get your seed so to speak, and the lies and manipulation both Morrigan and her mother use means that you cannot trust anything they say.  In that light you cannot really take that chance, since really you know nothing.

[Cyberpunk]

In theory....if the spirit of the old god doesn't jump anymore because it is no longer tainted, then you can in fact do so.



DLC!!!!

[FlintlockJazz]

Vormaerin wrote...

GmanFresh wrote...

after the ritual...demon dies..goes to the baby... wouldnt it be easy to kill her then and there and prevent this old god? and get to save the wardens whilst preventing a freak of nature from being born?

Doesn't its say that Morrigan disappears right after the archdemon is slain, doubtless to prevent this very vileness from occurring?  She's not stupid, after all.

This is something I don't agree with how the game works it.  Even if you refuse her offer you just let her go after she revealed all that.  With my human noble who is becoming king he would have gone "Er no, and by the way you're not going anywhere, I can't let you wander off and try this again and succeed when my kingdom is at stake.  Time for you to meet my sword, sword, MEET MORRIGAN!  RASK!"

[Alex Savchovsky]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Morrigan?  He doesn't like her baby.

Then why accept her offer only to accomplish the same disasterous Warden-deadly result with the added effort of killing a pregnant woman?

Because his character is afraid to die and wants to cheat death, obviously. By killing a pregnant woman...

[T0paze]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

T0paze wrote...

Why should you?

She's not actually that evil, and she certainly didn't follow you only to get that child - otherwise, why would she follow you into the thick of the final battle with the Archdemon itself? She could've simply left before the battle to either go away or stay somewhere in the vicinity of Denerim, depending on whether or not that ritual of hers requires that she be relatively close to the Archdemon when he dies.

Actually, the whole point of her going along with you in the first place IS to get your seed so to speak, and the lies and manipulation both Morrigan and her mother use means that you cannot trust anything they say.  In that light you cannot really take that chance, since really you know nothing.

Lies?

I don't recall her lying, except for witholding information about that ritual. Flemeth actually saved the PC from the darkspawn, and Morrigan helped her, too. It was also Flemeth who gave the PC those treaties. After that, we went through countless battles, until my PC eventually replaced her with Wynne. You're a bit too prejudiced.

Modifié par T0paze, 11 décembre 2009 - 05:04 .

[FlintlockJazz]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

That's just it, you don't know what her child is going to be. Choosing Morrigan's option is rather like the devil you don't know over the devil you do. You're taking a chance on ending the immediate threat and should the worst happen, will be better prepared (you know, not have two civil wars, an Abomination outbreak, a werewolf incursion, and a poisoned land owner) to deal with it.

So we're agreed then, once the blight is over Morrigan meets Mr Coat Hanger?

[FlintlockJazz]

T0paze wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...

T0paze wrote...

Why should you?

She's not actually that evil, and she certainly didn't follow you only to get that child - otherwise, why would she follow you into the thick of the final battle with the Archdemon itself? She could've simply left before the battle to either go away or stay somewhere in the vicinity of Denerim, depending on whether or not that ritual of hers requires that she be relatively close to the Archdemon when he dies.

Actually, the whole point of her going along with you in the first place IS to get your seed so to speak, and the lies and manipulation both Morrigan and her mother use means that you cannot trust anything they say.  In that light you cannot really take that chance, since really you know nothing.

Lies?

I don't recall her lying, except for witholding information about that ritual. Flemeth actually saved the PC from the darkspawn, and Morrigan helped me recover, too. It was also Flemeth who gave the PC those treaties. After that, we went through countless battles, until my PC eventually replaced her with Wynne. You're a bit too prejudiced.

Um, thanks for casting assumptions about me, let me cast one back and say that you're prejudiced too then. 

Morrigan tells you herself that the whole point of saving you and Alistair was because you're the youngest Gray Wardens and therefore had the greatest chance to succeed at the ritual, so she lied about not knowing why her mother rescued you.  She also tells you that Flemeth sent her with you in order to accomplish this, which means that her acting surprised when Flemeth told her to go with you was an act.  Flemeth gave you those treaties because it suited her goals, just as Morrigan helping you suited her goals, that is the whole point of those characters, that you cannot fully trust them and that they are working for their own goals.  They are not Stupid Evil after all, they are able to perform actions that don't shoot themselves in the foot for the sake of being evil.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 11 décembre 2009 - 05:06 .

[Taleroth]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

  She also tells you that Flemeth in order to accomplish this, which means that her acting surprised when Flemeth told her to go with you was an act.  

It's quite obvious she knows she's meant to leave, just surprised at when.  Presumably because she felt she wasn't ready.  This isn't an inference, either.  Listen to the dialogue from when she leaves.

Modifié par Taleroth, 11 décembre 2009 - 05:07 .

[Vormaerin]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

This is something I don't agree with how the game works it.  Even if you refuse her offer you just let her go after she revealed all that.  With my human noble who is becoming king he would have gone "Er no, and by the way you're not going anywhere, I can't let you wander off and try this again and succeed when my kingdom is at stake.  Time for you to meet my sword, sword, MEET MORRIGAN!  RASK!"

Yeah, because she completely fails to anticipate that reaction and be prepared for it.   The cinematic is flawed, but only due to limitations on the engine.  She obviously doesn't approach you when you are in full battle array.  She obviously would have her wards up.   You, obviously, are not stupid enough to attack a deadly mage with your bare hands or dagger and no element of surprise.

I suppose its up to you whether you are a sociopathic enough to kill a close companion of many months (who happened to have saved your life at least once) just because she made a proposal you didn't like.

[T0paze]

Well, her it's a very good thing that her goals are so consistent with mine then, at least for quite some time (the entire game, actually).



As for withholding information, Leliana and Alistair do that, too. It's not a reason to mistrust them all of the time. Whether or not to accept her offer, of course, is everyone's personal choice. I did.

[cutieyum]

GmanFresh wrote...

Why Cant We Kill Morrigan???

She'll cast cone of cold on you, hex you, bring lightning on your *ss, put you to sleep, and give you a nightmare, without needing clothes or a weapon. Afterwards, as a spider she would skin you and make a baby sling with the result.

Freaks are good for society, otherwise change would never occur. Stability is good, stillness/perfection is death.